Pastor said something morally questionable

[YADA]

What I find wrong about it is that it is directly implying that wealthy people are better than poor people, and that all poor people are lazy whereas the wealthy are universally hardworking. It seems broad, and overly judgmental of economic classes which I don’t think a Christian pastor should be openly supporting.

Example: I’m quite poor and I don’t watch TV, for instance (I find it boring). My friend, who is rich, watches Gossip Girl every night I read daily, she does not. But we are friends nonetheless, and neither of us are above the other based on economic status. I think God would frown upon those who do judge so one-dimensionally.

Which one of these descriptions fit Jesus Christ, who had little to no money?

I think this is a response to the factions that demonize people who have more … the politics of pitting the haves against the have nots …

You are young - when you say you are poor and contrast your life to your friends … you are really contrasting your parents lives which are the results of their good and bad decisions [all people make good and bad decisions - all] - you have yet to build wealth but a foundation is laid … no one builds wealth [of any kind] in a moment - it takes time, perseverance and discipline … thus that post does not represent a snap shot but a way of life …

You like Under the Dome - so you do watch TV and movies … I bet your friend reads a book or two

If you practice the left side of that pastors post rather than the right side - you may not become a millionaire * but you will be financially secure as opposed to broke … and there is a difference between broke and poor …

And with poverty there are multiple kinds … poverty of character, poverty of friendship, poverty of happiness …

As with wealth - there is more than just dollar amounts … you can be rich in friendships and loving relationships, rich in character and rich in happiness …*

 

[YADA]

I don’t agree with this pastor’s post, not that the habits on the left aren’t better than those on the right. Also, the fact that many republicans claim that the rich are rich because they work hard, and that the poor are poor because they’re lazy, is somewhat of an annoyance to me. I’d say the killing of innocents quenches the flame of light more so than the sentiment that the poor are lazy. Yet, I agree, we are living in dark times.

Can you provide a link to where a “republican” stated “rich are rich because they work hard, and that the poor are poor because they’re lazy” … I have never seen that

 

[exnihilo]

Actually Jesus spoke quite a bit about the wealthy - and rather disparagingly.

from Luke 18:25 - "For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

to James 5:1 - Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.

to Luke 12:33 - Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

And the early Christians did just that. They sold everything and lived in common. As Christ had told them.

Jesus also criticized Judas for wanting to sell the oil used to anoint him to give the money to the poor. Again, there is nothing wrong with being wealthy. There is something wrong in doing bad things or neglecting to do good things to get wealthy. I have always understood the warnings about wealth to mean that attachment to material things will draw you away from God. But you can posses material things and not be attached to them.

 

[z_0101]

Some background: I do not attend the church of this man that I will be talking about. He is a pastor for a nondenominational, Christian rock style church.

There’s a term in Radio for these types of people… “Shock Jocks”
Lots of Sound and Fury, very little substance.

IMHO, much better ways to be spending your time and talent than following things this person posts. If nothing else, find a Bible Study group, even one held by our Lutheran, Methodist, or Anglican (Episcopalian) Brothers and Sisters in Christ would be better than listening to or reading this Shock Jock’s rhetoric. Better yet, find the local Catholic Radio station (link to EWTN’s list of stations)…

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

This “pastor” posted it on FB and is responsible for the message it presents.
Typical right-wing, name-it-and-claim-it prosperity heresy. Since King Donald is getting televangelist Paula White to ‘pray’ at the inauguration, and he was ‘laid hands on’ by all the top rich televangelists, this comes as no great surprise. I fear we will see more of it.
We are in DEEP darkness.

I disagree with the headings of “millionaire” and “broke,” but I don’t see evidence of “name it and claim it.” What I see, perhaps too broadly expressed, is that people who work hard are likely to be more successful than people who complain and blame their state on others.

 

[fin]

Read daily. IT depends on what one reads daily. If it’s tabloids and trashy celebrity news, well…

 

[10gr8kids]

Can you provide a link to where a “republican” stated “rich are rich because they work hard, and that the poor are poor because they’re lazy” … I have never seen that

I’m sorry if I made that seem like a direct quote. It’s more of just a generalization they seem to make by lumping all poor into a general category. Maybe I just misunderstand their messages.

“There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what,” Romney said in the video. "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what.

“And I mean the president starts out with 48, 49 percent … he starts off with a huge number,” Romney continued. “These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

I understand that some people just want hand outs, but there have been more years than not when we have paid no income taxes. I never voted for Obama and we take personal responsibility for our lives, and don’t ask for handouts.

Then there is this from Bill, I realize he is not a republican, although I’d be willing to bet he votes republican. I actually agree with a lot of what he is saying. Maybe it is just me, but he seems to think this is the only reason for being poor.

mediamatters.org/video/2014/01/09/bill-oreilly-blames-poor-americans-choices-for/197518

I do not agree with class warefare, but I think the republicans may cause some of it themselves with these kind of statements.

 

[Peter_J]

Some background: I do not attend the church of this man that I will be talking about. He is a pastor for a nondenominational, Christian rock style church. All of my friends in school go to this church, and I used to go to this church but have since ceased so that I may better explore my spirituality. His church never really suited me.

So this pastor often posts things on Facebook that are… Questionable. Very politically driven things most often But an image that he shared recently is extremely confusing for me.

This is the image:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=c8998b55809ff11c72c5c6999ce7c4c5&oe=58DBBFC3

Hard for me to say why he posted that. But FWIW, as a Catholic I often feel duty-bound to point out to people that things posted by Catholics on blogs, or on discussion forums like CAF, or on other social media, are not necessarily representative of Catholics as a whole. I think you should take a similar approach i.e. tell people that that post is just that one particular pastor’s thinking and doesn’t represent Protestants in general etc.

 

[ATraveller]

For me, the pastor’s accompanying ‘Interesting…’ comment came off as a bit snide. The American Church has an image problem. People can see this very troubling trend particularly in parts of American Christianity labelled as Evangelical where they’ve made idols out of partisan politics and wealth. I really don’t understood why you can’t support the Republicans on the basis they’re willing to implement policies aligned with orthodox Christianity on marriage, abortions, euthanasia, etc. without buying into all of their economic policies, *some *of which are appallingly terrible and anti-family.

As for the image itself, I find it revolting. It implies the poor aren’t good people but the rich are. There are many financially well-off people who have reached their status without deception, taking advantage of vulnerable people, etc. but there are just as many who have committed these sins and are very unrepentant.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

The quote in the ‘Meme’ in the OP is from a book called “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert T. Kiyosaki, a big-time Trump supporter and ‘financial advisor’. Just the kind of reading a “mega-church” preacher should have in his library.
You’re judged by the company you keep.
I’m glad we have a Pope who would rather eat with the homeless rather than eat with people like this.
Sounds like another guy who was around 2000 years ago.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

I think this is a response to the factions that demonize people who have more … the politics of pitting the haves against the have nots …

You are young - when you say you are poor and contrast your life to your friends … you are really contrasting your parents lives which are the results of their good and bad decisions [all people make good and bad decisions - all] - you have yet to build wealth but a foundation is laid … no one builds wealth [of any kind] in a moment - it takes time, perseverance and discipline … thus that post does not represent a snap shot but a way of life …

You like Under the Dome - so you do watch TV and movies … I bet your friend reads a book or two

If you practice the left side of that pastors post rather than the right side - you may not become a millionaire * but you will be financially secure as opposed to broke … and there is a difference between broke and poor …

And with poverty there are multiple kinds … poverty of character, poverty of friendship, poverty of happiness …

As with wealth - there is more than just dollar amounts … you can be rich in friendships and loving relationships, rich in character and rich in happiness …*

I made my profile in 2013 when I joined this website, haven’t updated it since. If you care to find anything else on my four year old profile that does not coincide with my views in 2017 go ahead I don’t play volleyball anymore, you know.

And of course my friend reads, but daily? No. Thus she does not fit the “standard” of millionaire according to this post, despite the fact that she is indeed one. And no, her parents do not read daily either, throughout the years that I have known them.

I feel that you are insinuating that my friend’s parents have made better decisions to obtain a higher level of financial security, whereas my parents have not. Correct me if I’m wrong. I could, of course, go into a sob story about how my hardworking mom was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis before she could get her nursing degree, leaving her in poverty with no disability-friendly jobs. But you don’t want that, do you? My parents aren’t millionaires, but their bad decisions are not greater in quantity than the decisions of my friend’s mother and father. If you disagree, please do tell.

Of course there is more to wealth than money. But this post specifically said millionaires. I don’t believe they are referring to “millionaires in friendships”. A rather crude word if the intention was to address overall success vs. unsuccessful. I think it’s quite obvious they are solely talking about money.

 

[josh987654321]

.

I think it’s fallacious, not Christian and not true either. It would also get under my skin a bit too, because it’s as if Millionaire’s are somehow virtuous people because of their wealth and the poor are unvirtuous because of their poverty. So it immediately insinuates to judge a person by the number in their bank account, which is not Christian (Runs contrary to it actually), but rather the spirit of the world to do that.

The Parable of the Rich Fool - Luke 12:13-21
13 One of the multitude said to him, “Teacher, bid my brother divide the inheritance with me.” 14 But he said to him, “Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?” 15 And he said to them, “Take heed, and beware of all covetousness; for a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” 16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; 17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ 18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”

Christ and his disciples were all poor, Christ himself had no money, so it’s gone right from the get go, and Millionaires have been known to do some evil things, or use evil means to acquire their wealth. Some Millionaires are virtuous people, but it’s got nothing to do with their wealth. Their wealth actually serves as a means against their virtue, because it can become a source of pride.

We are in fact more likely to find Christ among the poor and downtrodden than among the wealthy. God always chooses the poorest of foundations in order to construct the greatest of buildings, in order that God’s mercy and omnipotence may be made more manifest in them.

The Widow’s Offering - Mark 12:41-44
41 And he sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the multitude putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came, and put in two copper coins, which make a penny. 43 And he called his disciples to him, and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, her whole living.”

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I think it’s fallacious, not Christian and not true either. It would also get under my skin a bit too, because it’s as if Millionaire’s are somehow virtuous people because of their wealth and the poor are unvirtuous because of their poverty. So it immediately insinuates to judge a person by the number in their bank account, which is not Christian (Runs contrary to it actually), but rather the spirit of the world to do that.

The Parable of the Rich Fool - Luke 12:13-21
13 One of the multitude said to him, “Teacher, bid my brother divide the inheritance with me.” 14 But he said to him, “Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?” 15 And he said to them, “Take heed, and beware of all covetousness; for a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” 16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; 17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ 18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”

Christ and his disciples were all poor, Christ himself had no money, so it’s gone right from the get go, and Millionaires have been known to do some evil things, or use evil means to acquire their wealth. Some Millionaires are virtuous people, but it’s got nothing to do with their wealth. Their wealth actually serves as a means against their virtue, because it can become a source of pride.

We are in fact more likely to find Christ among the poor and downtrodden than among the wealthy. God always chooses the poorest of foundations in order to construct the greatest of buildings, in order that God’s mercy and omnipotence may be made more manifest in them.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Contact the pastor on Facebook and ask him to come here and try to defend it.

 

[josh987654321]

The quote in the ‘Meme’ in the OP is from a book called “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert T. Kiyosaki, a big-time Trump supporter and ‘financial advisor’. Just the kind of reading a “mega-church” preacher should have in his library.

That’s unfortunate.

However, with Donald Trump, I was originally very worried about him at first because of his wealth etc, but I don’t believe Trump is like that, there have been many things that have surprised me about Trump the further I looked into him, especially the ones who he surrounds himself with and that he does not look down at all on those who are less wealthy than him. The Contrary actually.

Trump is precisely the kind of person I see as someone God can use to make his mercy and omnipotence more manifest, as has already happened with Obama & Clinton and many others, who think “How could such a buffoon have won the presidency?” If that’s not 1 Corinthians 1:18-30 shaming the proud and destroying the wisdom of the wise (Who in their so-called wisdom support abortion, same sex marriage and assisted suicide and try to remove Christ from their nation in the name of pluralism) I don’t know what is.

You’re judged by the company you keep.

But then again, that’s sort of what Christ was accused of when eating with sinners.

I’m glad we have a Pope who would rather eat with the homeless rather than eat with people like this.

I don’t recall our previous Pope’s being uncharitable and not seeking out the poor, at the same time, Jesus also eat with Zacchaeus and wealthy tax collectors. And Our Holy Father Pope Francis has also met with wealthy people.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PJM]

Some background: I do not attend the church of this man that I will be talking about. He is a pastor for a nondenominational, Christian rock style church. All of my friends in school go to this church, and I used to go to this church but have since ceased so that I may better explore my spirituality. His church never really suited me.

So this pastor often posts things on Facebook that are… Questionable. Very politically driven things most often But an image that he shared recently is extremely confusing for me.

This is the image:
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=c8998b55809ff11c72c5c6999ce7c4c5&oe=58DBBFC3

(Sorry that the image is so large, I couldn’t make it smaller for some reason)

This post just… It sort of stunned me? I feel like it goes against Christian teachings such as 1 Timothy 6-9

Am I wrong here? Because I am just kind of freaked out that all my friends go to this man’s church when he posts so many things that I find seriously questionable. Am I blowing this out of proportion? I just wanted a second opinion.

I’m happy to share MY personal opinion; BUT what is it you find specifically objectionable can discuss it?

I personally would prefer: “Potential Winners & potential Losers”

GBY
Patrick

 

[josh987654321]

I’m happy to share MY personal opinion; BUT what is it you find specifically objectionable can discuss it?

GBY
Patrick

All the dollar bills in the picture, and the linking of those traits and implying of virtue toward those who are wealthy. The implying they must have achieved that wealth because they are better people. Which actually feeds the pride of those who are wealthy and incites them to look down on those who are less fortunate as being lazy, unvirtuous etc.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[YADA]

I made my profile in 2013 when I joined this website, haven’t updated it since. If you care to find anything else on my four year old profile that does not coincide with my views in 2017 go ahead I don’t play volleyball anymore, you know.

And of course my friend reads, but daily? No. Thus she does not fit the “standard” of millionaire according to this post, despite the fact that she is indeed one. And no, her parents do not read daily either, throughout the years that I have known them.

I feel that you are insinuating that my friend’s parents have made better decisions to obtain a higher level of financial security, whereas my parents have not. Correct me if I’m wrong. I could, of course, go into a sob story about how my hardworking mom was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis before she could get her nursing degree, leaving her in poverty with no disability-friendly jobs. But you don’t want that, do you? My parents aren’t millionaires, but their bad decisions are not greater in quantity than the decisions of my friend’s mother and father. If you disagree, please do tell.

Of course there is more to wealth than money. But this post specifically said millionaires. I don’t believe they are referring to “millionaires in friendships”. A rather crude word if the intention was to address overall success vs. unsuccessful. I think it’s quite obvious they are solely talking about money.

I meant no insult - just that young people live their parents lifestyle not there own … and you are young - even if three years older than your profile … I get that its the “millionaire” word you don’t like … me I am not one but I do not dislike people who are …

Millionaires are many times not the ‘mega’ rich people think they are … they are the neighbor next door who has a lifestyle and house that seems very middle class … I doubt that pastor meant any more than that …

And poverty and being poor is not the same as being broke … which is the context I would hope that poster meant … I cant know that and neither can you … nor can you say the person who wrote that thinks that rich people are somehow better than poor people … every poor person can do the things listed on that side and if a rich person consistently did the other side - they would become broke before long … with exceptions of course … because just like there is probably a chain smoker who never got lung cancer or CPOD or a host of other ailments and the person who never smoked that does … doesn’t mean smoking is not harmful …

Our Pope is nice - he loves the poor … but he also seeks out those with means i am sure - to build Hospitals, Schools, Orphanages, help with all his efforts around the world … just as my Archdiocese and Parish … Envy is not pretty nor helpful …

Someone posted that the quote comes from Rich Dad Poor Dad … - i have never read it, nor went to a seminar … but I have watched a few minutes of that guy on TV … wanting to help people be financially responsible is not a bad thing … learning the skills to live within your means and save for a rainy day, broken leg, car breakdown, retirement and a host of other things is also not a bad idea …

Many young people [not saying you] live today with Cable TV * and the newest I-phones * … even some of my family members decry a lack of money while they live a lifestyle they cannot afford … the concept of waiting, saving or not having the latest and greatest ‘thing’… is not an option fr lots of people …

So I had three kids before I ever owned my first color TV -which was in the early 1980s … but color TV’s existed in the 1960s - my life did not end [and neither did my young children suffer] because we did not have color TV … tell a young person today they don’t need a smartphone and you are mean and hateful and the worst scum bag - because they have to have it - its their right!!! … I guess they need them to get to the rallies against the 1%

I do not think that pastor was extolling rich of poor - but good habits over bad … Lent is coming - where we as Catholics practice self control through fasting, abstinence and prayer - its not because we are better than other Christians - its because our Church wants us to grow and learn good habits …

I choose to see the good in the posts message …**

 

[Hope_Philomena]

I meant no insult - just that young people live their parents lifestyle not there own … and you are young - even if three years older than your profile … I get that its the “millionaire” word you don’t like … me I am not one but I do not dislike people who are …

Millionaires are many times not the ‘mega’ rich people think they are … they are the neighbor next door who has a lifestyle and house that seems very middle class … I doubt that pastor meant any more than that …

And poverty and being poor is not the same as being broke … which is the context I would hope that poster meant … I cant know that and neither can you … nor can you say the person who wrote that thinks that rich people are somehow better than poor people … every poor person can do the things listed on that side and if a rich person consistently did the other side - they would become broke before long … with exceptions of course … because just like there is probably a chain smoker who never got lung cancer or CPOD or a host of other ailments and the person who never smoked that does … doesn’t mean smoking is not harmful …

Our Pope is nice - he loves the poor … but he also seeks out those with means i am sure - to build Hospitals, Schools, Orphanages, help with all his efforts around the world … just as my Archdiocese and Parish … Envy is not pretty nor helpful …

Someone posted that the quote comes from Rich Dad Poor Dad … - i have never read it, nor went to a seminar … but I have watched a few minutes of that guy on TV … wanting to help people be financially responsible is not a bad thing … learning the skills to live within your means and save for a rainy day, broken leg, car breakdown, retirement and a host of other things is also not a bad idea …

Many young people [not saying you] live today with Cable TV * and the newest I-phones * … even some of my family members decry a lack of money while they live a lifestyle they cannot afford … the concept of waiting, saving or not having the latest and greatest ‘thing’… is not an option fr lots of people …

So I had three kids before I ever owned my first color TV -which was in the early 1980s … but color TV’s existed in the 1960s - my life did not end [and neither did my young children suffer] because we did not have color TV … tell a young person today they don’t need a smartphone and you are mean and hateful and the worst scum bag - because they have to have it - its their right!!! … I guess they need them to get to the rallies against the 1%

I do not think that pastor was extolling rich of poor - but good habits over bad … Lent is coming - where we as Catholics practice self control through fasting, abstinence and prayer - its not because we are better than other Christians - its because our Church wants us to grow and learn good habits …

I choose to see the good in the posts message …**

Thanks for the reply, it was informative.

 

[PJM]

All the dollar bills in the picture, and the linking of those traits and implying of virtue toward those who are wealthy. The implying they must have achieved that wealth because they are better people. Which actually feeds the pride of those who are wealthy and incites them to look down on those who are less fortunate as being lazy, unvirtuous etc.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

Hi Josh

Thanks!

Money ought not be the main focus of our lives

GOD 1st

Family 2nd

& and everything else below that:thumbsup:

That said, the pursuit of money is not in itself bad or evil, if done with hard work and integrity, and honesty…

PRAY much Josh

GBY

Patrick