Pastoral care to the LGBT Catholic Community

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TShawn

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I am a struggling Catholic who is transgendered. While this is a big part of who I am, it is not my total identity, I primarily consider myself a child of God. I have posted elsewhere in this forum and have received some kind, truly helpful suggestions for helping me on my spiritual journey, but I have also found a great deal of hostility and complete lack of charity on the part of some of those who claim to be Catholic.
First, I will say what being transgendered means, at least to me. I was born “clearly” one sex, but have always identified internally as being of the opposite in my thoughts and mannerisms. This was never a deliberate choice on my part, just how I have always found myself to “be”. This feeling has been so strong that after much thought and many years, (37), I have chosen to medically transitition and live as how I have always felt myself to be. That being said, what I have done, frequently draws out a great deal of hostility from others who in the name of religion, condemn me. I deal with it and move on because at least I am finally free and feel more authentic, am now free from a 16 years steeped in alcoholism and have been able to get off anti-depressants.
I have remained within the Catholic Church even though it is becoming increasingly difficult. I have a great love for the Catholic Church and that is why I remain…mainly for the Eucharist like so many other Catholics. I struggle with living my life celibately and am not sure I agree with the Catholic Church’s teachings concerning this area. However, I never wanted to be a "cafetaria Catholic " out of convenience for myself so I give great thought and weight to what the magisterium teaches.
What I would like to see happen within the Church is a greater effort to minister to people who are homosexually inclined and transgendered on the parish level without changing her teachings, but more of an outreach to help us live fully as ourselves, but with greater support to help us live the Church’s teachings. After all, the Church is asking us to deny a huge part of ourselves, that is, our sexuality, our need for companionship irrespective of sex, and to live life-long celibacy. I don’t think many on this forum realize just what a huge cross that is to bear. I hear many simple “pat” answers to that dilemma. Just think, married heterosexual people who still have a sex drive, what if you were asked to refrain from this day forward, especially if you are still young, from sex forever, because you plan to have no more children? Would you be able to do it? I am not asking anyone to agree with me on anything or change their beliefs. That never was my intention on these forums. I just want people to try and see things through our eyes because there are many of us, we will not be going away unless a form of genocide were to be allowed, (and I know some people would advocate that “for the good of society”), but we need better help from the Church than what we have been receiving. - TShawn**
 
You have portrayed your cross, at least to me, very well. You disagree with a teaching(s) of the church yet you recognize you have to be obedient to the teaching anyway shows a good deal of humility. You are trying your best to live within the framework set by God and administered by His church and I am sure for that you are very pleasing to God.

The church does not tell you that you cannot have companionship, but that you can’t act in accordance with sexual desires or outside of marriage. I can’t tell you what you have done as far as living not according to the gender God made you, but God is your judge and mine. We all fail. We all sin. We’re all a work in progress towards perfection ultimately realized after this earthly existence.

Thank you for your post. It seems obvious you love God and His church and are trying as all of us to do the best we can, where we are at this point in our lives, even when we know we are going to fall short of the mark.

Glad
 
What would you suggest as far as the Church increasing outreach to the LGBT community?

I’d agree that there are many who have a pat knee-jerk phariseeic response to those with sexual identity issues. Not to excuse such responses, but methinks some of that stems from a response from the LGBT community that, seemingly unlike yourself, condemns and rejects the Church’s teachings outright.

There would be those who might say that following the Church teachings was never meant to always be simple or easy; Jesus himself said as much. It’s difficult, on one hand, to appreciate the struggle of some in your position. On the other hand, it’s difficult to follow Church teachings and in many cases daily struggle and sacrifice are a cross for many to bear.

It’s not an easy thing, for anyone involved, to balance pastoral needs with yielding to social pressures or personal struggles.
 
TShawn, are you familiar with the U.S.-based (but worldwide) Catholic apostolate/movement called Courage? They may be what you are looking for.

couragerc.net
 
Can transitioned people have relationships with those of the opposite gender? Has the Church said anything on this subject?
 
Annn said:
Can transitioned people have relationships with those of the opposite gender? Has the Church said anything on this subject?
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Homosexual persons, including those who identify themselves as ‘transgendered’, are called to chastity by the Church… and, for that matter, to a ‘deprogramming’ in terms of rejecting the tenets of the liberal pro-gay ideology (such as that persons can authentically ‘transition’ themselves) – a person needs to change the way that he or she thinks about these issues when he or she enters the Catholic Church. Catholic theology is not compatible with the gay agenda, its doctrines and socio-political expressions. (Certainly, many ‘liberal’ Catholic theologians today would disagree with me on this; but, to be fair, they wouldn’t disagreeing with me – they would be disagreeing with the social teaching of the Catholic Church.)

In the eyes of the Church there is no changing of the sex; if you were born a man (or woman), you are a man (or woman) forever, and there is no way for a man or woman to be in a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex and it not be intrinsically disordered, that is, morally wrong and mortally sinful.
 
God bless you, TShawn. You have had a hard journey, but you are traveling with faithfulness to God.

Yes, some of the members of our forum are uncharitable at times. I think that is part of the nature of online communications… its too cold and too quick.

I hear your call for more support from the Church. But I think many in the Church are uncomfortable with homosexuality or transsexualism and this limits their ability to reach out or offer support services.

May you have the very best of fortune with your transition. It must be stressful, but freeing at the same time. If you want prayers, I will offer them for you.
 
TShawn, I admire your courage to come and post your feelings. I can only imagine the cross you have to bear.

Have you tried different parishes? From time to time I like to check out what groups have begun or are running in various parishes near me, and once I did see where one church did have a support group for LGBT Catholics. Keep searching; it may just take a different parish to find what you’re looking for. You’re in a major city, so I’m sure you can find something.

That’s not to say that you couldn’t pilot your own group for your parish. Like you said, I’m sure there are others who feel as you do and are in need of support. It might be an idea to raise with your pastor.

Again, I commend you for your courage and humility.
 
Thanks to all of you for your responses. I’ll try and answer the questions put to me and address the other issues raised here.
First, what I would like to see, is more outreach where people like myself and gay people could meet together for prayer groups and discuss our Christian walk and faith life in regular fellowship to keep each other strong. Apostolates like Courage are fine but they don’t meet immediate needs for fellowship like I mentioned above. Plus, I did contact them and they wrongly consider Transexualism to be nothing more than an extreme form of homosexuality which is quite incorrect.
Newbie2- You are quite correct when you state that many in the LGBT community outright reject Catholic teaching in the areas of sexuality. I blame both sides for this problem. First, the Church seems to like to take a “blunt” black and white approach to the matter so the LGBT community becomes outraged mainly due to PAIN. The issues go so much deeper than many heterosexual people can even imagine. I know this from my own personal experience. I lived 37 years of my life as a married “straight woman” who walked “lock-step” with the Catholic Church because I am a convert to the faith from Pentecostalism. I denied my own self for many years due to fear of God and eternal punishment. (This came mostly from my Pentecostal background.) I couldn’t go on living that way and be whole at the same time…longer story than is appropriate here but suffice to say that my divorce was NOT caused by any of these reasons, it was something else altogether. Anyway, I believe that a healing is necessary and only time will help with more open dialogue between the Church and the LGBT community, and by “dialogue” I don’t necessarily mean the Church must change it’s teachings, but it sure could change its approach in my humble opinion.
Cajetan- Acceptance must go both ways and by acceptance, I mean acceptance of the people themselves. The Church has written some good documents addressed to the Homosexual people, but they have also written some bad ones. More detail forthcoming in the future if you wish. As for “deprogamming” transexuals to keep them from transitioning, this is not possible. I tried mightily for most of my life and transitioning is the only option that allows me to keep my sanity and my very life and this is true for most of us. Again, transexuality is not the same as homosexuality and it has nothing to do with sexuality in of itself. I am currently celibate and considering staying that way for life. I didn’t transition so I could feel better about taking a female partner, I transitioned so that I could bear living in my own skin. Also, this is not psychological although the DSM IV implies that it is. If it is, then it is the first “mental illness” that I know of that begins in the toddler years, save for autism which really isn’t a mental illness but another condtion altogether. I will never revert to living life as a female again. Not for the Church or anybody else. To do so would, I think, kill me. My brain has always thought in male patterns, including my mannerisms which caused others to think me to be a lesbian which I never was.
Annn- No, I am not free to have a relationship according to the Catholic church because they mistakenly think what many others do, and that is I am homosexually oriented due to my body. Plus, I can’t procreate. I have problems with the Church for not allowing me to at least have the unionitive part of a relationship, but that is part of my cross.
I hope I answered everybodies questions. I am always happy to do so and strive to teach others, that people like me are actually quite normal! This may upset some. I am not trying to push any gender boundaries or blur them. I believe my condition to be a form of intersexism only the part of me that is intersex isn’t visible because it’s my brain. I don’t wish to hold parades and scream “ACCEPT ME”. I prefer to whisper it and simply “be”. - God bless! - Tshawn
 
TShawn, thanks for the testimony of your experience. It is something that should be talked about . I also wonder if you’ve been able to reach out to Courage. Have you heard about a book by David Morrison called Beyond Gay? It might be helpful . Also another book by Father Groeshel called The Courage to Be Chaste is one I’ve seen recommended .

Edit. We were posting at the same time or I missed the last post somehow. Ignore the parts you’ve already addressed.
 
Seatuck-

I did contact Courage but when they referred me to a Ms. Elizabeth Moberly who writes about homosexual/transexual issues, after checking out her writings, I got angry and asked them to refrain from contacting me any further. She proposes that Transexualism is an extreme form of homosexualism which I completely do not buy. I figured if they don’t know much about my condition, then they cannot help me. I am reconsidering though, and may contact them again in the near future. I may also check out Father Groeshel’s book as well. I have another one called “You are Christ’s” but I can’t remember the authors name right at the moment as I type this. I am studying the matter and considering, and praying. I don’t do “blind obedience” easily, so I have to study and weigh things out for myself before I can proceed one way or another on such a serious matter. I appreciate any prayers anyone wants to offer for me and yes, Dale M, I always welcome prayers. Thanks Seatuck for your suggestions. - Tshawn
 
Hi,

I often pray on account of this issue and that the church be given wisdom and direction to deal with it correctly.

A fundamental problem with it is that we reject the modern sociological theories that see gender as simply a human invention which can be defined or re-defined.

Gender is a gift from God, and forms an important role in His plan for us…hence what the Pope was referring to in his controversial christmas remarks which I fully support… and modern society has corrupted much of this plan by treating men and women as fundamentally interchangeable.

Is it possible though, that God created a person with a gender other than their biological sex?.. we have to reject the idea that gender is human-made and can be socially re-defined… although I don’t know if we have also to reject the idea that a person can be transgendered as part of God’s plan.

The reason why a transitioned person shouldn’t marry is because they couldn’t pro-create, and marriage is an institution meant for the purpose of bringing life into the world. As doctor of the church and former Pope Gregory the Great wrote:

“The married must be admonished to bear in mind that they are united in wedlock for the purpose of procreation, and when they abandon themselves to immoderate intercourse, they transfer the occasion of procreation to the service of pleasure. Let them realize that though they do not then pass beyond the bonds of wedlock, yet in wedlock they exceed its rights. Wherefore, it is necessary that they should efface by frequent prayer what they befoul in the fair form of intercourse by the admixture of pleasure.
[Regula Pastoralis, Part III, Caput xxvii]”

But here’s an idea though: what if two transgendered people of the opposite sex (ie. a man born in a woman’s body and a woman born in a man’s body), who both retained their sexual reproduction even if they transition, got married?.. it might be very strange to think about, but that wouldn’t be against church social or moral teaching…

so maybe there is hope for them to get married after all?

Prayer might be good and anyone is allowed to say this herself if she chooses:

Lord, look after this situation and help tshawn and others like him find what they need in order to be at peace with this suffering they experience on account of their gender. Guide the church and give it whatever wisdom she needs in order to deal with LGBT people correctly and with love, and especially help us discern how they fit into your plan for human gender. We ask for this, if it is your will, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

God Bless,
 
Thanks DM for your charitable post!

I appreciate your comments and the prayer!
I have a question or maybe rather a comment on the quote from Gregory the Great. I get the impression that sex as understood by the Church at that time and maybe now? is to be used only for procreative purposes, but is not to be enjoyed? It seems that Pope Gregory is saying it is sinful to enjoy the act. However, I understand it to be in line with Church teaching if he meant that sex was simply not to be “divorced from” the procreative act, that would make more sense to me. Personally, I believe sex is alot more than procreation only.
Thank you also for your comments on the transgendered condition. It is something I did not choose, but I did choose to medically transition which really upsets some people in these forums and elsewhere. They believe I am making a mockery of the way God created me. I don’t see it this way. I see it as correcting a “deformity” for lack of a better word much like a hare lip would be corrected to improve a person’s looks and help them to eat better? That analogy may not do for some but it works for me. I am not trying to do anything out of convenience or pleasure. No one in their right mind would want to choose this. Someone asked me on this forum, why don’t I seek to have my brain re-wired to match my body instead of mutilating my body? Boy, would that I could!!! That would be a lot easier in theory! But it doesn’t work, thus the need to transition in order to recover some sense of sanity and well-being. Thanks again for your kindness - TShawn
 
Stay strong!!! I’m a lesbian, so I know a bit about what you are going through. I’m so afraid I’m going to hell, but I can’t help who I fall in love with. Luckily I know a priest who gives me so much guidance and who doesn’t judge me. It’s important to have a lot of support.
 
Amen Helene!

God bless you and keep you near to His Heart! I think you know a lot of the struggle I am going through. I do not believe God will send us to Hell for being the way we are, that to me, is patently absurd! It took me a long time to realize that though. I believe that we will be judged by how much we love Him and seek to do His will. Unfortunately, sometimes it is difficult to discern due to our warring passions, the ease of being deceived? I am still very much unsure and not convinced that the Catholic Church is 100 per cent correct in Her teachings on sexuality because She has been wrong on Astronomy! As far as Church Dogma though, I believe 100 per cent. I just am not sure the Church and Science always match. I’m tempted to err on the side of caution though because the Church does have very relevant things to say on sexuality and I don’t disagree with it all. Truth be told, I don’t know. I don’t want to be a “cafetaria Catholic” but I also don’t want to spend the rest of my life single and alone! I’m hoping for a happy medium…to find a partner with whom I can live chastely and that person would also be Catholic. But I also must keep my heart open to Jesus so I’m feeling like I’m in a dark tunnel right now and the light should be just around the corner…?:confused:

Also, note to all: I will not be posting after Friday since I will temporarily be without internet access until I get it set up in my new home. But I’ll be back
 
One more thing to all, please!

Do not respond with comments like, “So, you want to have your cake and eat it too?” The answer to that is…YES!! But I am also trying to deny myself and realize that this may not be possible. Thanks.
 
Remember above all god loves you for who you are, not how you dress or sleep with, stay true to the person god made you.
🙂
 
Teen4Christ said:
Remember above all god loves you for who you are, not how you dress or sleep with, stay true to the person god made you.
🙂
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But, the original poster said that God made a mistake. God made her a man in a woman’s body.

So, how can transgender people say that God made a mistake, and gay people say they are gay and God created them that way?

Those two views are diametrically opposed to each other.
That all said, I feel for GBLTs and truly struggle with the appropriate response. What gay/transgender people feel is real. It could have genetic and environmental components.

It’s one sin/behavior/thing that robs someone of a lifelong companion, which is something that we are wired to want.

I think that some people in this situation equate love with acceptance, and don’t believe anyone can love them (on an agape or friendship level) without accepting them.

This is truly a cross to bear.
 
PaulinVA said:
But, the original poster said that God made a mistake. God made her a man in a woman’s body.

So, how can transgender people say that God made a mistake, and gay people say they are gay and God created them that way?

Those two views are diametrically opposed to each other.
That all said, I feel for GBLTs and truly struggle with the appropriate response. What gay/transgender people feel is real. It could have genetic and environmental components.

It’s one sin/behavior/thing that robs someone of a lifelong companion, which is something that we are wired to want.

I think that some people in this situation equate love with acceptance, and don’t believe anyone can love them (on an agape or friendship level) without accepting them.

This is truly a cross to bear.
Click to expand...
Though bi/gay people and trans people see themselves in a sort of community as a result of similar types of discrimination, I don’t think many queer people would say that gays and transpeople have similar or the same ideas about their particular struggles or ways of being in the world. One is about gender identity and the other is about sexual orientation, which are two very different things.
 
PaulinVA -

First, I want you to know that as a Transexual person, I do believe I can have friends who will accept me as a person while not agreeing with my decision to transition or have relationships. Two fine examples are a couple of women who own and run a Catholic book store on the west coast. They follow and believe in Catholic teachings according to the Vatican on every level and are very orthodox in every way. In fact, they were very instrumental in my conversion to the Catholic faith back in '02. That said, I still consider them my friends because they love me. They know I disagree with Church teaching on sexuality, but they do not condemn me, they only offer me their prayers for which I’m very grateful. After all, I would be arrogant if I thought I knew better than the Church with all certainty, (even though I feel the Church cannot speak authoritatively on transexualism since I feel She does not really know what it is…who knows?) I do the best I can guided by both the Church AND MY conscience.
Maybe I am a little arrogant but I do not think so, only God will help me sort that out. I had another point to make but I digressed and forgot. God bless you! - Tshawn
 
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