Pat Robertson challenges creationism, cities dinosaurs

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another good reason not to watch or support Pat Robertson. As usual, it is open mouth and insert his foot. He has said so many dumb things through the years. We can debate this among ourselves but the focus should be on Pat Robertson. I remember when he ran for president in 1988 and knew some very good Christians at the time that were really into him. He has said number of false things. He supported a very pro-abortion Rudy G. for president, He said that a spouse can divorce if their life long death due us part partner has alzeimhers. he has had a number of false predictions and mis-steps that I am glad i am Catholic and away from him. We can debate among ourselves about how old the earth is but the focus should be on Pat Robertson and how to stay away from him.
 
Azygos, seriously are you a fundamentalist protestant trying to infiltrate by pretending to be Catholic?
 
Azygos said:
Evolution is not science… It’s a Religion. If that offends you then you can call it a Belief System. It’s a fairy tell that cannot substantiate itself anymore than the book of genesis as far as human wisdom goes.
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If evolution is a religion, then germ theory is also a religion. The theory of evolution does have much evidence to support it, though I suspect you have already made up your mind as to the subject.

Again, Catholics are under no obligation to be creationists. The Church itself is fine with theistic evolution. I find it difficult to believe that evolution is somehow evil when the Church itself does not claim such a thing.
 
Notice what happened in this story. These people met GOD in the flesh and refused him because of their already formed presuppositions. They looked at Jesus as foolish even though he spoke wisdom and performed miracles. Their own beliefs blinded them in finding the Truth. Please brothers don’t let this happen to you.

Mark 6
1 He departed from there and came to his native place, accompanied by his disciples.

2 When the sabbath came he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished. They said, "Where did this man get all this? What kind of wisdom has been given him? What mighty deeds are wrought by his hands!

3 Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house.”

5 So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them.

6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. He went around to the villages in the vicinity teaching.
 
chartreusefox said:
If evolution is a religion, then germ theory is also a religion. The theory of evolution does have much evidence to support it, though I suspect you have already made up your mind as to the subject.

Again, Catholics are under no obligation to be creationists. The Church itself is fine with theistic evolution. I find it difficult to believe that evolution is somehow evil when the Church itself does not claim such a thing.
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You argument is arbitrary and plain worthless. Next time say something that makes logical sense instead of playing the Your just to stupid card.
 
Azygos said:
Just because the majority believes something doesn’t make it true. Just because a scientist calls his theory fact does not make it true. For one the majority argument is called an ad-populum argument and it’s fallacious. Two they don’t have substantial evidence to call evolution a FACT. If they did then no one would believe in Creation. It’s not a fact it’s a theory built up on arbitrary ideas and some old earth evidences (which can be refuted with young earth evidences)
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There is also the fallacy fallacy. Just because you can find a fallacy, does not make the argument false
 
Razanir said:
There is also the fallacy fallacy. Just because you can find a fallacy, does not make the argument false
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Name one person who have proven something to be true by creating a fallacy fallacy argument?
 
Azygos said:
Just because the majority believes something doesn’t make it true. Just because a scientist calls his theory fact does not make it true. For one the majority argument is called an ad-populum argument and it’s fallacious. Two they don’t have substantial evidence to call evolution a FACT. If they did then no one would believe in Creation. It’s not a fact it’s a theory built up on arbitrary ideas and some old earth evidences (which can be refuted with young earth evidences)
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Oh, I just noticed this post. Your calling my argument a ‘fallacious argument’ is incorrect. Argumentum ad populum only applies to people with no knowledge of the issue being debated.

For example, if a majority of random people believed that asthma was caused by eating cheese, and I said that was true because a majority of people believed it, then it would be a fallacy, because those people probably do not have much information about asthma and cheese.
If, however, a majority of doctors declared that eating cheese does not cause asthma, and I believed them, that is not argumentum ad populum, because doctors have studied the medical effects of cheese, and thus are credible sources of information.

Also, your claim that “If they did then no one would believe in Creation” makes no sense. Obviously, some people do not believe in the Catholic religion. Does that mean Catholicism is not true?
 
Azygos said:
You argument is arbitrary and plain worthless. Next time say something that makes logical sense instead of playing the Your just to stupid card.
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Please tell me why my argument is ‘arbitrary and plain worthless’–I would be happy to take valid criticisms under considerations.

Also, I don’t think I played the ‘Your just to stupid card’. I’m sorry if you felt that way, but as far as I am aware, I have never insulted you.
 
chartreusefox said:
Oh, I just noticed this post. Your calling my argument a ‘fallacious argument’ is incorrect. Argumentum ad populum only applies to people with no knowledge of the issue being debated.

For example, if a majority of random people believed that asthma was caused by eating cheese, and I said that was true because a majority of people believed it, then it would be a fallacy, because those people probably do not have much information about asthma and cheese.
If, however, a majority of doctors declared that eating cheese does not cause asthma, and I believed them, that is not argumentum ad populum, because doctors have studied the medical effects of cheese, and thus are credible sources of information.

Also, your claim that “If they did then no one would believe in Creation” makes no sense. Obviously, some people do not believe in the Catholic religion. Does that mean Catholicism is not true?
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Claiming the Majority as fact to prove a point is always and Ad-Populum argument and it’s always fallacious. As the Majority of scientist may be false because after all they are HUMAN. I take it you didn’t take debate because right now you would lose points for that one.
 
Azygos said:
Can a Catholic not promote the Truth about creation?
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The “truth” about Creation is not that the story as given to us in Genesis is literal. The Church says it is not, so no, you can’t “promote” that as “truth” because it’s not the truth. What the Church says is what the Truth is. The story is told in figurative language and represents things that happened - but not as told - or the language would not be figurative.

So, go find some Church documents to support your position and give links and quotes. Your personal opinion is not Church teaching and claiming it is, is wrong.
 
chartreusefox said:
If evolution is a religion, then germ theory is also a religion. The theory of evolution does have much evidence to support it, though I suspect you have already made up your mind as to the subject.

Again, Catholics are under no obligation to be creationists. The Church itself is fine with theistic evolution. I find it difficult to believe that evolution is somehow evil when the Church itself does not claim such a thing.
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If evolution is a religion then germ theory is also a religion. That’s fallacious and just logical stupidity as Germs are FACT and Evolution is NOT FACT.
 
Azygos said:
If evolution is a religion then germ theory is also a religion. That’s fallacious and just logical stupidity as Germs are FACT and Evolution is NOT FACT.
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Evolution means “change over time” and biological evolution is certainly an observed process. A fact, as it were. “Theory” does not mean “we think maybe it’s possible things change over time.” "Theory is an explanation of observed or predicted phenomena. The theory of aerodynamics doesn’t mean “We think maybe it’s possible things fly.”

No one is proposing there might possibly have been evolution of species, that’s a fact we have observed and has been noted for hundreds of years. The theory is just the explanation of how it happens.
 
Julia_Mae said:
The “truth” about Creation is not that the story as given to us in Genesis is literal. The Church says it is not, so no, you can’t “promote” that as “truth” because it’s not the truth. What the Church says is what the Truth is. The story is told in figurative language and represents things that happened - but not as told - or the language would not be figurative.

So, go find some Church documents to support your position and give links and quotes. Your personal opinion is not Church teaching and claiming it is, is wrong.
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kolbecenter.org/the-traditional-catholic-doctrine-of-creation/

These Catholics do a good job listing the doctrines showing the Official teachings of a literal genesis. Now let me add this in. If literal genesis has always been taught and the truth is unchanging did they teach a lie? If so isn’t the Church supposed to be the Pillar of Truth? How can the Church teach lies if it is the Living Church of God? If Theistic Evolution becomes Official doctrine it will actually hurt the Church as it will prove the Church is not the living church of God. Maybe it is official doctrine but as far as I have heard they are not enforcing the Traditional Official doctrine and they are stating that you can just believe either way when it is actually contrary to Church Doctrine and the Truth.
 
Azygos said:
Claiming the Majority as fact to prove a point is always and Ad-Populum argument and it’s always fallacious. As the Majority of scientist may be false because after all they are HUMAN. I take it you didn’t take debate because right now you would lose points for that one.
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As I was taught in my debate class, argumentum ad populum does not apply to specialists, but to the ‘bandwagon effect’ of general people (which is why argumentum ad populum is also known as appeal to the masses).
If, however, you are correct and I am incorrect, then I apologize, as it has been quite a while since then.

“I take it you didn’t take debate because right now you would lose points for that one.”
Um, no, I didn’t see your post. I am happy to admit if I am wrong.

Please do respond to the fact that the Catholic Church does not oppose theistic evolution.
 
"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

"It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Source: Catholic Answers Library

Ed
 
Azygos said:
If evolution is a religion then germ theory is also a religion. That’s fallacious and just logical stupidity as Germs are FACT and Evolution is NOT FACT.
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Of course it’s stupid. Germ theory is not a religion. Neither is evolution.

“Germs are FACT and Evolution is NOT FACT”.
Well, that is what we are debating, isn’t it?
 
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