Pat Robertson: What is your opinon of him???

[Jay74]

SpiritualSon:

I voted against him, because the Protestant Church denies good works.They repent with the mouth only,not with the life. They think that God pays no attention to man’s behavior, and that faith alone is all that is needed,without works.

You’re sort of right. I’ve worshiped in both Catholic and Protestant churches. Friends took me to a Baptist Church when I was younger, and it was a turning point for the better in my life. I started living a moral life in accordance with their teachings, and most have a sincere love for Christ and are kind. I’ll defend them here, just as I defend Catholics to them. That said…

It is true that most Protestants teach salvation through faith alone, and that is biblical (I don’t have the verse on hand, but I’m sure it is in one of Paul’s letters). Unfortunately, this is widely misused to mean works are irrelevant, which is untrue (and unbiblical). The Bible also says that faith without works is dead (James I believe). My old church did teach that behavior matters. It’s not a contradiction–works can’t save you, but works are the fruits of saving faith (and therefore, behavior is necessary–without behavior, you really don’t have faith). All I’m doing here is explaning what my old Baptist church taught about faith and works, and how not all teach that God doesn’t care about behavior. Unfortunately, some do teach that behavior is unnecessary, and for them I have no explanation or excuse.

Where I disagreed with Baptists (and what shocked me into investigating other churches) was the belief that “a sin is a sin”–a pastor even said “all sins are equal in God’s eyes, that bad thoughts are as serious as murder.” I rejected that doctrine, since it seemed that to say God doesn’t distinguish between sin is to argue that man is more just than God–and that clearly can’t be true. I agree with the Catholic Church in this (degrees of sin), and many other areas.

I now attend a Catholic Church, and I’m content there. But even as a Baptist, I used to defend the Catholic Church against accusations that they were false profits. People may disagree on doctrines, and in those cases someone is clearly wrong, but I wouldn’t slander someone by calling them a false profit. That’s not the way to lovingly tell them of the truth. Not when they love Jesus and affirm Him as our Lord.

Oops, that was long. It didnt’ always sound as I hoped, but I hope everyone will try to understand what I’m saying, and that it is with utmost sincerity and affection for those who first taught me of Christ, and those who I worship Christ with now.

“Heavenly Father, there are many on this forum who love you, and seek to truly know You and to find the right path. Please be with them, and guide them, and may Your will be done. Amen”

 

[CD4]

<<<I grew up as a protestant and am still on the path to Rome but I remember Billy Graham kindly. He seemed very kind, but also a great speaker who wasn’t afraid of being firm when he felt it was needed.>>>

**Me, too…I grew up listening to the Rev. Mr. Graham, and admire him to this day. I have been privileged to sing in two Crusade choirs, both is Cincinnati, twenty-five years apart. Talk about an experience…Try singing in a 4,000 member choir, lead by that great director, Cliff Barrows. It was a huge thrill to sing with George Beverly Shea…He is in his nineties, but can still sing “How Great Thou Art” with grace and love. **

 

[soldonsacramnts]

It is true that most Protestants teach salvation through faith alone, and that is biblical (I don’t have the verse on hand, but I’m sure it is in one of Paul’s letters).

quote by jay74

A slight error in the quote that is often heard in evangelical circles. Its “by faith you are saved” galatians 2:16. I would encourage everyone to read the whole chapter. Its pretty clear what St. Paul is saying. Your indeed not saved by works alone. Interestingly enough faith and alone are never used together eiher.

 

[Little_Mary]

davy39:

He’s just like the rest of them, so fakey. Especially, when he “sees” people with different ailments, and infers that he is at least partially responsible for their “cure”. People like him make a mockery of the Christian faith.

Isn’t that Benny Hinn?

 

[WhiteDove]

Dear Little Mary,
Pat Robertson does this psychic type act on his ‘Word of Knowledge’ show, which I’ve viewed once or twice. I agree, it makes a mockery of real spirituality. He’ll say something like “I see a woman in kidney failure. Lord, you’re healing her right now. Praise Jesus.” etc, ad nauseum. It really is unseemly.

Sincerely, WhiteDove

 

[Little_Mary]

WhiteDove:

Dear Little Mary,
Pat Robertson does this psychic type act on his ‘Word of Knowledge’ show, which I’ve viewed once or twice. I agree, it makes a mockery of real spirituality. He’ll say something like “I see a woman in kidney failure. Lord, you’re healing her right now. Praise Jesus.” etc, ad nauseum. It really is unseemly.

Sincerely, WhiteDove

Thanks. I’ve seen Benny Hinn on TV too and I can’t believe that too much either.

I’ve never really watched Pat Robertson except that on or around 9/11/01 he basically aired his opinion of why 9/11 happened and he was very accusatory and un-comforting as far as talking to a wounded nation goes. He basically said we had it coming for not living a christian life. Totally turned me off every wanting to hear anything he has to say.

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

I didnt have a problem at all with his comments after 9/11… I agree 100% with his and Jerry Falwells statements… this nation turned away from God, and he gave us a taste of what its like to not have his divine protection upon us…and a mere 3 years later…we have forgotten again. The homsexuals are bolder, the ceos’ more corrupt, and many of our church leaders exposed…God used 9/11 as the signal that house cleaning has begun.

 

[Little_Mary]

Faithful 2 Rome:

I didnt have a problem at all with his comments after 9/11… I agree 100% with his and Jerry Falwells statements… this nation turned away from God, and he gave us a taste of what its like to not have his divine protection upon us…and a mere 3 years later…we have forgotten again. The homsexuals are bolder, the ceos’ more corrupt, and many of our church leaders exposed…God used 9/11 as the signal that house cleaning has begun.

You may be right.

 

[ddingler]

I do like to watch the show for the news and love the stories about their worldwide missions. I do, however, tend to tune out toward the end when he starts his “preaching and healing”.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Falwell also said Muslims were evil… That is a very ignorant statement

 

[jmm08]

You cannot discuss Pat Robertson and his impact on American History without examining his run for the Republican Presidential nomination and his 2nd place finish in Florida’s “Presidency II” straw vote.

See political.com/analysis-arc/0016.html

“At Presidency II, Bush was no longer a dark horse, but his role as Reagan’s successor was hardly assured. Dole was also a leading candidate, and conservative televangelist Pat Robertson had mounted a surprising formidable grass-roots effort. Robertson focused on Florida and expected to do well there, but Bush came away with 57 percent of the delegates. Robertson came in second, with Jack Kemp a distant third.”

I put my name in and was drawn as a delegate from Sarasota. There was a very substantial state-wide grass-roots effort for Pat Robertson. There also was a very wide popular support for George Bush (who was elected president).

Since I was there I can tell you some important facts that are belittled by political analysts. A third of the straw vote delegates were directly appointed by the Governor of Florida with (name removed by moderator)ut from experienced and loyal Republicans. These votes were essentially all George Bush votes (Jeb Bush was Insurance Commissioner at the time – one of the top three Florida executives). Regarding “Jack Kemp a distant third”. It was a very distant third. Bob Dole had almost no votes at all in the straw vote – because he didn’t speak to the convention and initially he did not plan to attend. I recall that almost all votes aside from George Bush were Pat Robertson. If you subtracted 33% from George Bush, Pat Robertson would have easily won the straw vote. The results really were a victory for Pat Robertson, but recognized externally as a victory for George Bush.

What did all this matter?

Important lessons for George Bush and the Republican Party:
a) They really saw how there was very substantial support for anti-abortion. And they saw how the “religious right” was really quite strong.
b) I would not be surprised that the straw vote may have greatly influenced the first George Bush presidential candidate to “see the light” and decide to be against abortion. I don’t recall that he had decided any stand on abortion until after the straw vote.

I had a fun time at the convention. And I voted Pat Robertson. I don’t recall very well, but I suppose being anti-abortion was one of the key factors in my vote.

It was only a straw vote, but it was a strong signal to Republicans that the Religious Right could be a key component to their support.

Would Pat Robertson have been a good president? Personally, I think a President should have previously held a significant elected office (Congressman, Governor, Vice President). It is only an academic question because I don’t think he would have been actually nominated or elected. But voting for him in that straw vote was not a wasted effort.

Pat Robertson clearly had (and probably still has) a great number of supporters in many parts of our country. He has pretty good grass roots.

Is it fair that the Florida Governor was able to directly appoint delegates? In my opinion, yes. Because actual election results are often influenced by incumbents. And allowing the Governor to directly appoint delegates to the straw vote makes the straw vote outcome more realistic and perhaps closer to how an actual election may result. Remember, the randomly selected straw vote delegates aren’t really randomly selected. In the Republican Presidency II straw vote, delegates were randomly selected from a pool of extraordinarily interested and somewhat active Republicans.

I suppose that much of the Bush anti-abortion stance may be a result of their view that the “Religious Right” is an important block of voters to win and to keep.

 

[jmm08]

Pride is usually the sin that blocks from our eyes the great works that others have done. Especially if it was done in our midst.

Perhaps envy is the sin that blinds us from seeing the same great things if we did not have enough pride to fully blot them out.

I was thinking to myself a little earlier – gee you know I’ve seen all these guys in person. From a distance and while in a crowd or an audience, but I have seen them in person.

Pat Robertson
Jerry Falwell
Benny Hinn
Bill Bright (not here any more)
Lester Sumrall
R. W. Schambach

I haven’t seen Billy Graham in person. But a non-Catholic convert from a Billy Graham crusade became my best friend in the 1980s.

What the above all do have in common is this. They work very hard. They took the initiative long ago to work hard and to work daily and faithfully towards a Godly goal. Any of them would view “a day off” as wasted. I know that they had firm beliefs. Even the youngest on their personal staff are exhausted just almost keeping up with these people.

Exactly where they are now in their walk with the Lord, I cannot answer. But I refuse to judge them critically. They work too hard and are too focused on goals to be able to afford much time – even if it was for their own personal benefit.

I am a Baptist signed up for RCIA / RCIC.

Even though these religious leaders are not Catholics, if I had the privilege to spend a day or an hour with any of them I would likely learn something substantial. Probably very practical things like how to keep working hard. How to stay faithful to a goal. How to keep your face set like a flint.

 

[Malachi4U]

I used to watch the 700 Club all the time. But like many other fifedoms, the kid inherited the money, oh, I mean ministry. I do not care for tele-evangelists that give the child the ministry as an inheritance like Oral Roberts, 700 Club or Lakewood Baptist Church. A ministry should be for God and given to the most qualified preacher and not the closest related son. Are they preaching for God or the Dollar?

It is OK for sons to preach like the father but they should serve God and not treat ministries like a stock option for revenue.

Some may be OK but you just never know so I avoid them all now.

 

[flameburns623]

It’s a shame one could’t proffer more than one answer in this poll: I think he’s a great moral leader (the choice I picked) who’s a little full of himself at times (the other choice I wanted).

 

[Malachi4U]

I heard on FOX News 10-11-04 that Pat had a ‘vision’ from God that told him Bush would win in November!:yup:

Reminds me of Oral and his ‘vision’ and Joe Smith and his ‘vision’ and etc…

Well, time will tell is God spoke to Pat or not?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

WhiteDove:

Time for another poll… Anyone have an opinion of this guy?

I wonder if he knows that 700 - as in Club - is MCC in Latin ?​

(Sorry, couldn’t resist - actually, wasn’t going to resist )

I want to listen to him to make up my own mind - any good links ?

I hope he isn’t one of that “Prosperity Gospel” lot - eeek ! ##

 

[Theodora]

I was just wondering. Protestants believe in their tenet of Bible Alone only. Now, one of their leaders claims to have visions and personal revelations. Do they place stock in what he claims? If they do, would they not go against their core teaching of the Bible Alone theory?

In the past I have spoken with a few members I consider of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical persuasion; oh, yes, and one Mormon. When I approach them about our Catholic Saints and their revelations, invariably they have shrugged what I have said off as “That’s from the devil” and “It’s not in the Bible.”

Has anyone had this same experience?

Theodora

 

[Maccabees]

Theodora:

I was just wondering. Protestants believe in their tenet of Bible Alone only. Now, one of their leaders claims to have visions and personal revelations. Do they place stock in what he claims? If they do, would they not go against their core teaching of the Bible Alone theory?

In the past I have spoken with a few members I consider of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical persuasion; oh, yes, and one Mormon. When I approach them about our Catholic Saints and their revelations, invariably they have shrugged what I have said off as “That’s from the devil” and “It’s not in the Bible.”

Has anyone had this same experience?

Theodora

Uh yeah I was listening to err Christian fundie radio the other day.
And guess what the subject of visions came up. Everybody has a vision and a dream that was supposedly inspried by God and such there was no talk of it being from the devil. One catholic calls up. Big Mistake! He talks about visions of Mary. Uh my gosh the devil inspired it this vision is from the devil. All visions including Mary are in essence Satantic the catholic talks about the better known visions validated by the church and secular observers like Fatima and he was lambasted. Oh yeah there is a double standard marian visions are from the devil. You can see and hear and talk to Jesus. Oh yeah if you go to the Bible believing Fundie church its a given!

 

[Toni]

Apologia100:

He is his own favorite fan. I have little use for televangelist, they make themselves their own spiritual authority.

I agree, I will never forget seeing him in a picture years ago with his fist clenched Masonic like on his chest, I worried about him then and still question him now!

 

[Theodora]

Maccabees:

Uh yeah I was listening to err Christian fundie radio the other day.
And guess what the subject of visions came up. Everybody has a vision and a dream that was supposedly inspried by God and such there was no talk of it being from the devil. One catholic calls up. Big Mistake! He talks about visions of Mary. Uh my gosh the devil inspired it this vision is from the devil. All visions including Mary are in essence Satantic the catholic talks about the better known visions validated by the church and secular observers like Fatima and he was lambasted. Oh yeah there is a double standard marian visions are from the devil. You can see and hear and talk to Jesus. Oh yeah if you go to the Bible believing Fundie church its a given!

My first impulse is to get sooo impatient with people that don’t see how contradictory their thinking is. But, then, I feel sorry for them. They really get all exited as long a miracles, visions, and revelations happen in their church. But anything of the legitmate kind occurring in the Catholic Church is out of the question and are not allowed to be given the slightest consideration.

Theodora