Patients Put Down (in NO Hospital)

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Thekla

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September 12, 2005

DOCTORS working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leave them to die in agony as they evacuated.

One New Orleans doctor told how she “prayed for God to have mercy on her soul” after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.

Her heart-rending account has been corroborated by a hospital orderly and by local government officials.

One emergency official, William Forest McQueen, said: “Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die.”

dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,1656685…

This is disturbing on so many levels. I remember hearing a doctor on Tuesday morning in a NO hospital pleading for the evacuation of patients, but to think that they did this…I hope it isn’t true.
 
It came down to giving people the basic human right to die with dignity.
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I didn’t know that a) being put down is dignified b) suffering is undignified and c) that there was any such right.
I did think, however, that there was a right to life.

They said they had to make split second decisions; the decision they made does reflect the general direction of society today.
 
Thekla I am glad you posted this:nope: I saw this on Hannity and it is very disturbing,and mark my words this will be used to further the death agenda.:mad:
 
Wow. Given today’s readings, I suppose we must be the first to forgive those doctors, so that God may have mercy on their souls…and ours down the line.

Those doctors are going to have nightmares for a long, long time. Of course they believe they did the right ‘humane’ thing, or else they wouldn’t have done it, but believing it doesn’t make it so.

Do we honestly believe the addicts and rapists would have attacked the dying, the weakest cancer patients clinging to life through machines???

The right thing would have been to stay with the dying rather than be evacuated themselves…laying down one’s life for another, and yes, risking being raped by the hoodlums. Instead, they saved their own lives - and their consciences - by killing the weak before abandoning them.

Nope. Not the right thing to do, but certainly understandable given the situation they were in and the stress they were under. God will have mercy on their souls, and we, too, should forgive them - for they knew not what they were doing, and honestly, not a single one of us safe on these boards could even begin to imagine how we would have responded in the same situation. We certainly would like to believe we’d see clearly right from wrong, by the human psyche and instinct for survival can bring out the worst in even the best of us.

What is most troubling, and what I hope comes out of this situation, is a public debate about this ‘humane right to die with dignity’ position that makes it possible for physicians and others to decide when, and how, a person leaves this world.
– for the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.*
 
See, the report I read was the OD’d the patients on morphine, but let them die- didn’t directly kill them. I don’t know all the nuances of that, though,
 
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sententia:
See, the report I read was the OD’d the patients on morphine, but let them die- didn’t directly kill them. I don’t know all the nuances of that, though,
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ODd = overdosed…meaning, excess to the point of rendering the organs to work properly, so yeah, it’s still killing them.

The doctor said they made a specific decision over patients before them - those who were ill, but had a chance of evacuation and those, they determined would never make it out alive.

The thing is, they were probably right…in that those patients may not have made it out alive - we’ll never know - but the thing to have done would have been to remained with them until one of two events took place 1) evacuation or 2) natural death (natural in that nothing could have been done to save them since the power was out, etc.)

But instead, they overdosed those they selected to die so that they could leave themselves with a clear conscience once the patients’ death resulted from the overdose (clear by their standards, justifying what they did as ‘mercy/compassion’). In their minds they hastened their death but didn’t really kill them.

I just take issue with them picking who went into which section, though I don’t harbor anger or resentment toward them because they really were under extreme stress, so I do believe they did what seemd to be the best thing for all in making those decisions. I hope they and the rest of the medical community learn from the experience though - learn that the choice they made was not the right one in the end.

Mistakes happen, even well-intentioned ones - but to not learn the proper lessons from those mistakes is the real unforgivable act.
 
Hello,
This article struck very close because I am a nurse and work in a hospital and I can’t imagine the agony of this situation. It was like a war zone, where you have to leave behind a dying comrade in the field. Or like the Donner pass where people were driven to cannabalism.

Remember that many of the sickest people in the hospital are totally out of their normal mind anyways. They need constant interventions to keep them calm and comfortable. They poop and pee in the bed, don’t know where they are, and cancer patients need constant medication to keep them from being in agonizing pain. In the ICU, ventilator patients are sedated totally, and they have very complicated therapies. On a medical ward you have disoriented people, people on heavy duty narcotics, etc. I can’t even begin to describe the suffering I witness and how overwhelming my job is emotionally. This scene that these good people had to cope with is an utter nightmare! And, they were working without even basic neccessities, with their lives in jeopardy.

It’s easy to sit in a comfortable armchair and say that they should have sacrificed their lives for their patients. But, remember, these doctors and nurses have their own families. I would have my limits. My children would be orphans if I died. So no, I would not do that. I’m not saying I would give an overdose of morphine, but I understand what they were facing better than a non-medical person. They acted purely out of compassion and a desire to alleviate suffering.

I really think people should be more careful about passing judgement. This has nothing to do with promoting a death agenda. This was a horrific circumstance with no easy choices. I work with many doctors and nurses and I’ve never seen anyone wanting to promote a death agenda, and comments like that are irresponsible and hurtful. 😦
 
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HelpingHands:
It’s easy to sit in a comfortable armchair and say that they should have sacrificed their lives for their patients. But, remember, these doctors and nurses have their own families. I would have my limits. My children would be orphans if I died. So no, I would not do that. I’m not saying I would give an overdose of morphine, but I understand what they were facing better than a non-medical person. They acted purely out of compassion and a desire to alleviate suffering.

I really think people should be more careful about passing judgement. This has nothing to do with promoting a death agenda. This was a horrific circumstance with no easy choices. I work with many doctors and nurses and I’ve never seen anyone wanting to promote a death agenda, and comments like that are irresponsible and hurtful. 😦
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That ‘alleviate suffering’ thing is what I have trouble with…alleviate it to the point of death?

But other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with your insight into the matter, especially their acting purely out of compassion.

And while they weren’t even thinking about the death agenda, it is what happens now - in the aftermath of the event - which will determine how their actions will be used by those groups who definitely promote the death agenda to serve their purpose.

When that happens, I would like to see these doctors take pro-life positions against those groups by speaking out about the horrific circumstances of their decision and telling them they would do it differently if they had it to do over again. At the very least I would like to see counter news interviews and articles by these doctors taking offense of their story being used by the death agenda camp.

But for now, they truly did the best they could under the circumstances, and I certainly do not judge them harshly for their choices. Even if they could not sacrifice their own lives for the patients, by staying to the end, they did not need to rush their deaths, they could have left them behind to die naturally.

Of course that would have been excruciating for the patient, though, but as you noted, would they have been fully aware of their pain if they were so close to death? And would it have been possible that God would have taken them peacefully and quickly once the doctors were evacuated? - those are definitely options I wouldn’t want to risk taking on their behalf, and yet it was either that - or drug them so that they would feel no pain.

From your experience then, did the morphine overdoses kill them or did they die naturally in a drugged state so as to not have felt any pain? Could you tell by the article???

Oh, and as you noted you would not see yourself as having remained behind in the situation, did it surprise you to read that it was the nurses who did remain with the patients until they died? That was the other thing which struck me about the article. The doctor made the decision, administered the shots, left, and the nurses remained behind.

In all sincerity, HelpingHands, bless all of you in the medical profession…it truly is a noble and honorable profession - mainly because you are left to make such life and death decisions.
 
Hi Yin Yang,
Probably there are plenty of docs and nurses who are pro-choice, I’m sure. It’s just as diverse as in any other walk of life. I have to say that there is a strong trend in healthcare at emphasizing pain management, sometimes at the cost of recognizing the value of suffering. It’s drilled into us. Patients who refuse meds in favor of enduring pain are viewed almost pathologically. We are encouraged to talk them into pain meds as part of patient education. In fact, when JACCHO or the state comes into a facility to inspect, pain management is very closely scrutinized.

I personally am a big believer in patient rights and always try to honor their requests, even when their choices differ from what my own would be. Of course, this wouldn’t mean I would participate in mercykilling.

Catholic principles state, as I’m sure everyone is aware, that dying patients can be given enough narcotics to relieve their suffering even if it hastens death. That is well accepted, as long as death is not the objective of the treatment.

But, in the case of what’s described in the article, they were engaged in mercykilling, under very extreme circumstances. I think one factor that contributed also was the medical ethic prohibiting patient abandonment. This is also drilled into us. I think they probably knew that the patients were doomed, but felt they couldn’t abandon them, so were trying to be merciful and still try and escape with their own lives and save as many other patients as they could. The nurses who stayed with them until they died did that out a sense of duty and compassion, I’m sure. I would do that no matter if I agreed or disagreed with the patient’s choices, or the doctor’s.
 
This is always the last resort but in a time of danger it is a option. Before you start shrieking, because yes it is a horrible option…a calamity has reduced the staff availability, reduced services and available medical supplies.

The critically ill consume a lot of resources and in the triage formula the critically injured take less precedence to the walking wounded, an inverse pyramid …

Would you prefer to see the critically ill die in desperate circumstances, filthy and in pain, vulnerable to weather and vermin (human and animal)?

No medical/nursing personel would relish this prospect and the ones who authorise the coup de grace have to live with that decision for their life.

Give your prayers for the folk who faced such a hideous decision and pray also that the USA will never be faced with such a calamity and response again…

I am an intensive care nurse, it would have been my job after the Medical Officer authorisation, to turn of inotropic support,ventilation etc after giving a large dose of anaesthetic/analgesia. The nurse would stay and attend several patients until death overcame them thus freeing up other nurses for the living and medical staff for the incoming cases.
 
Thanks for the perspective, HelpingHands and Melanie…it truly was a sad situation for all. I really wonder what the fallout will be, though…if any.
 
Hey guys! What is it with this “Put Down” stuff? You might put down a favourite old pet, but you murder people. Do not so readily accept the language, thinking and culture of the media and the culture of death.

As to ‘mercy’ killing. Let’s get this right, God in his mercy can end our lives whenever He so chooses - " You know neither the day nor the hour" [Mat 25:13]. But ‘mercy’ killing is something that we humans choose to do. The **Doctors ** made the choices here - they picked, they chose who would die, who would live. It was a deliberate, intentional act. Legally, if you have intent of a crime then you have culpability. Homicide; murder 1 I would say.

At the end of the day no doctor knows with any certainty. It’s a all too human opinion, liable to error. Doctors get diagnoses wrong every day. They are fallable.

But even if we stick to the criteria as chosen here; this same anonymous, female doctor is quoted in several British newspapers today as saying that in more than one case she had to give two or more ‘lethal’ injections to some individiuals as they ‘survived’ the first one… So, far from being merciful it was bloody well botched!!! Where is the mercy there?

No, sorry, this can never be right no matter what the situation. Hippocratic oaths and all that. Heal the sick, protect the weak. Do they teach that anymore at med schools? Or is it all so tiresome and merely ‘gets in the way’ of real doctoring?

Any arrests yet? If not, why not?
 
Cockney Clive,

Thanks for saying what I was thinking. I worked at a university medical center that had a medical school and it is my understanding that physicians no longer take the Hippocratic Oath.

Courtneyjo
 
Besides the fact that I believe they murdered them, does anyone else not understand WHY if the nurses were staying behind anyway, did the Doctors feel it necessary to do this? The whole thing sounds insane to me. People sure do strange things sometimes. (Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.)
 
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allhers:
Besides the fact that I believe they murdered them, does anyone else not understand WHY if the nurses were staying behind anyway, did the Doctors feel it necessary to do this? The whole thing sounds insane to me. People sure do strange things sometimes. (Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.)
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My impression was that the nurses just stayed with the patients until they died, then left with the evacuation. A nurse would always want someone at the side of a patient who was dying. If someone is expected to die and has no family member in the room, a nurse would try and be there out of sense of duty and common decency.
 
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HelpingHands:
My impression was that the nurses just stayed with the patients until they died, then left with the evacuation. A nurse would always want someone at the side of a patient who was dying. If someone is expected to die and has no family member in the room, a nurse would try and be there out of sense of duty and common decency.
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Right, but if it was safe enough for the nurses to remain behind, then why wasn’t it safe enough for the doctors to remain without overdosing the patients on morphine to the point of speeding up their death? That’s what I don’t get.
 
Hi Yin Yang,
IV morphine takes effect in only minutes. An overdose would quickly cause respiratory depression. I don’t think death would take too long. A bolus of Potassium Cloride would be another way of causing a quick death.
 
For those who think euthanasia will never happen in this country, please think again. The culture of death continues to cynically sell itself as “compassionate”.

dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=361980

“Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.”

God have mercy.
 
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