Patriarch of Moscow Cyril - There is only One Church!

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Not to sound simplistic, but I think we should all come to the agreement that Catholic forums are generally not fair to Orthodoxy, and Orthodox forums are not fair to Catholicism.

Arguably they are complementary to each other in that.
 
Indeed.

Of course, I still use them (as you can tell) but I think the old grain-of-salt is a crucial companion in such activities. :o
 
Thanks to you for answering my concern regarding the Orthodox prayers for us …and with the world.

The East and Western Churches live in different worlds…but in comparison to the Protestant denominations, ours are apostolic, sacramental, our foundation of Scripture on the Septuagint; we have our episcopacy…and the growing role of the papacy – in face of the growth of diversion of our universal faith.

Personally for me…I remain in the universal church ’ He Ekklesia Katolika’…as it was so named by St. Ignatius of Antioch.

I thank God that the nearby Greek Orthodox pastor is likewise working for our common unity.

And praying for the Orthodox…we saw films in grade school of those Orthodox children who betrayed their parents during communism, turning their own parents in for the faith. We heard of many martyrs.

And yes…this was directed by Our Lady of Fatima who appeared at Fatima. I worked overseas in the missions and Divine Providence had be room with a young girl from the diocese of Leira and her family invited me to their farm for thanksgiving time. The dad drove us to Fatima. I saw an elderly man come out, very old, about 90. The father had known him for some time and the old man had such a kindly, sweet face, and had witness the miracle of the sun in 1917.

Mary said to pray for the conversion of Russia its name, and she did not say Soviet Union, the one of atheism. She said Russia would spread her errors throughout the world. We knew it was the communists and not the Orthodox Russians.

I have Russian Orthodox music in my home. It is so ethereal and heavenly and it has been written that some day perhaps Russia will adore God like no other nation. I believe that. Whether it is a real prophecy or not, I don’t know.

But yes, in the Latin Church there are prayers going on everywhere that we re unite with our Eastern Orthodox brethren.

and there needs to be much forgiveness on the Orthodox side for events that happened so long ago. That is only following the Gospel.

The papacy is the sign of universal unity. And because the Western Church has outreach to so many kinds of people and so many different levels of faith, it does have a very defining way of administration. So I do see the quality of universalism in the Latin Church.

I see the Latin Church outreach to peoples of many nations. I am not familiar with the Orthodox’ outreach to the missions.

But from what I was told here locally, that it was mistranslations that brought about the schism, along with different geographic/political events, and different administrative/theological responses to those particular conditions in which the Orthodox/Latin live. This is the Latin position of these differences.

I thought Patriarch Bartholomew is meeting in 2016 with the Eastern leaders about reunification. Again, as John Paul II stated, he came to see personally that we cannot have everyone the same…but that we must respect each others’ traditions.

God bless!
 
SavingGrace, I did a search and I was mistaken.

I read it on Wikipedia…John Paul II stated the wrong the Latin Church did, especially the grace crime of the sacking of Constantinople and its sacred places. These rogue Crusaders were likewise excommunicated when they got back to Europe for their crimes.

But the Latin Church never asked forgiveness never for its past in regards to the Orthodox. His actions brought about a great applause and the the Patriarch of Constantinople broke taboo and prayed with him.

John Paul II wanted to visit Russia but was refused by the church leaders…and I am hearing it is some within Russian Orthodoxy that are having particular issues…that is something I have to study but…

like I asked Vas…if there was anything any thing…teeny tiny any good the Latin/Roman Church had or did in his mind
 
KathleenGee said:
SavingGrace, I did a search and I was mistaken.

I read it on Wikipedia…John Paul II stated the wrong the Latin Church did, especially the grace crime of the sacking of Constantinople and its sacred places. These rogue Crusaders were likewise excommunicated when they got back to Europe for their crimes.

But the Latin Church never asked forgiveness never for its past in regards to the Orthodox. His actions brought about a great applause and the the Patriarch of Constantinople broke taboo and prayed with him.

John Paul II wanted to visit Russia but was refused by the church leaders…and I am hearing it is some within Russian Orthodoxy that are having particular issues…that is something I have to study but…

like I asked Vas…if there was anything any thing…teeny tiny any good the Latin/Roman Church had or did in his mind
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Thank you for clearing that up Kathleen. I don’t understand this pettiness and holding onto grudges, it’s immature behaviour in my opinion.

Our relationship with the Jews was worse than that with the Orthodox but their rabbis still met with Bishops and the Pope with goodwill in their hearts and Israel never banned Catholics from visiting the holy sites during that time.
 
For me, I am sensitive to divisions and I live in an area of the USA with little faith and our Catholics a small minority.

I am trying to find the energy to go to vespers at the Greek Orthodox. I followed our instructed protocol. I finally met with the pastor, and he told me he also was working on reunification, and it greatly consoled me.

I mentioned on another post I feel interior wise, off balance…and the Latin Church here so much into activity and evangelism…although it is being stressed to spend more time in adoration.

But it is the plight of the Eastern and Middle Eastern Christians that is really affecting me. I sense in my being a Eucharistic union with all of them and pray for them.

I see our differences as cultural, historical and also mistranslation.

I went to a church art history in my parish. The last session, the instructor showed us a piece on a Russian Orthodox exhibit. They had videos showing so many Russian Orthodox churches being destroyed by the communists, as well as the children looking at the videos. We were just about in tears.

The Russian Orthodox refused to allow John Paul II into the country.

I have the impression that there are Russian Orthodox believers that have some of the perceptions as the American cults here who say that the Roman Catholic Church began in the 300’s.

It pains me.
 
KathleenGee said:
For me, I am sensitive to divisions and I live in an area of the USA with little faith and our Catholics a small minority.

I am trying to find the energy to go to vespers at the Greek Orthodox. I followed our instructed protocol. I finally met with the pastor, and he told me he also was working on reunification, and it greatly consoled me.

I mentioned on another post I feel interior wise, off balance…and the Latin Church here so much into activity and evangelism…although it is being stressed to spend more time in adoration.

But it is the plight of the Eastern and Middle Eastern Christians that is really affecting me. I sense in my being a Eucharistic union with all of them and pray for them.

I see our differences as cultural, historical and also mistranslation.

I went to a church art history in my parish. The last session, the instructor showed us a piece on a Russian Orthodox exhibit. They had videos showing so many Russian Orthodox churches being destroyed by the communists, as well as the children looking at the videos. We were just about in tears.

The Russian Orthodox refused to allow John Paul II into the country.

I have the impression that there are Russian Orthodox believers that have some of the perceptions as the American cults here who say that the Roman Catholic Church began in the 300’s.

It pains me.
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Well at least he tried to mend fences. One can only offer a hand in friendship and reconciliation if the other party can’t let go of the past there is not much you can do except pray for them.

Forgiving another’s transgressions towards you is the most christlike thing one can do. Not easy to do if you are not in the right place spiritually speaking.
 
Thanks Jarek, it is confirming my observations.

America is on the other end of Russia with a fragmented Christianity. You go down any street here and count how many different Christian churches refuse to worship God together.

That is the plus side of the Orthodox, not so many different kinds of people. Catholic is universal and we have so many different kinds of people and so many kinds of rules and regulations to ensure we have common faith…but where we truly suffer, my opinion, is the liturgy.

Cardinal Wuerl really wants us to get to the restoration of the sacred liturgy, still not achieved since Vatian II. Our local bishop publicly stated he is the head liturgist and is the one to define liturgy, and he has great appreciation for the high Latin Mass. I went to Thanksgiving Day Mass in Seattle and the liturgy was a blend of English and Latin and it was tremendous…also on part of the deep and profound faith of the Cathedral Catholics.

Many parishes across the country are now having icons inside our sacred space. I see this as a movement of the Holy Spirit at work.

I listen to Russian News and am a budding admirer of President Putin. I am hearing this from more Americans…

So we pray and be united in the Lord.
 
As Jarek was stating, Savingrace, Russian Orthodox pretty much are indifferent. (They are using pre fab to rebuild their churches in the Russian countryside.)

Geography and its subsequent politics really can put distance between us.

I have a Russian Orthodox friend who is very devout and he also shares with us very good videos of Russian folk singers music, dance…so well done.

I am one of those who am beginning to believe Russia will be of great help to the world that has lost its way.

And am looking forward to talking with the Greek Orthodox priest in regards to their practice of confession…they are more in tune to the Holy Spirit…I mean…like the Latin Church giving the appearance of it doctrine, when in fact it was a hypothesis that unbaptized babies go to limbo. I wish we never heard that.

Or how Dante’s Inferno contributed to the culture of Roman Catholics of time past…the punishment of sins, purgatory, hell.

John Paul II, a Slav himself, said we entrust the unbaptized babies to Christ’s mercy.
 
KathleenGee said:
And am looking forward to talking with the Greek Orthodox priest in regards to their practice of confession…they are more in tune to the Holy Spirit…I mean…like the Latin Church giving the appearance of it doctrine, when in fact it was a hypothesis that unbaptized babies go to limbo. I wish we never heard that.

Or how Dante’s Inferno contributed to the culture of Roman Catholics of time past…**the punishment of sins, purgatory, hell. **
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???

I’m sorry, but this post of yours is very confusing. The issue the Catholic Church had was with Catechesis being taught by non-Bishops.
 
Personally i don’t think i ever had Catechesis that was taught by a Bishop.
 
Sorry for confusion.

We have lay people leading faith formation in parishes. But in the 70’s and 80’s, and collusion with certain clergy, authentic Catholic catechesis was one of the great casualties of false interpretation of Vatican II.

So our local archbishop with this priest just out of Rome, put together this professional ministry program, its first, to correct errors and provide us solid foundation for our faith.

We seldom if ever used any 2nd hand interpretation. We worked mostly with the Vatican II documents, the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church, Scripture, and Canon Law, as well as the Catechism with the Constitution for the Sacred Liturgy. We studied encyclicals. I read one article on understanding the framework of ‘the Parables’. I cannot remember much else like that. We also studied pastoral administration, counselling.

I was invited in and got certificates in the first group, taking me 5.5 years parttime.

So I am stymied right now, priests very busy now with Christmas coming…about anything of Christ outside the Nicene Creed. So I am not inclined to ask them questions to help clarify me or correct me on anything.

So my question is now what context…have to wait.

Sorry for any confusion.
 
KathleenGee said:
Sorry for confusion.

We have lay people leading faith formation in parishes. But in the 70’s and 80’s, and collusion with certain clergy, authentic Catholic catechesis was one of the great casualties of false interpretation of Vatican II.
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We also had poor (and sometimes incorrect) Catechesis before Vatican II also.

Whenever the lay or religious would stray from the Catechesis program(s) provided by the Bishops, we got ourselves into trouble.
 
phil19034 said:
Archbishop Chaput provide excellent catechesis during his homilies. I wish I could to mass with him every Sunday 🙂
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Glad to hear it. 👍

But that’s not the same as saying that “The issue the Catholic Church had was with Catechesis being taught by non-Bishops.”
 
Yes, Phil, but there were bishops out there not vigilant.

Pope Benedict was removing a bishop or errant priest every month of his pontificate.

Also, we had communists infiltrate American and Canadian seminaries, and its effect I would think would further alienate our Orthodox brethren.

But my archbishop went on to head the same office as former Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Congregation of the Faith, Catholic Orthodoxy. So that is why I am a little set back by our head teacher instructing us that it was the Church, not the apostles, that gave us the final definition or revelation of Christ, that we profess in the Nicene Creed.

I haven’t had time or the ability to talk to our priests with the documents members have given me either.
 
Peter_J said:
Glad to hear it. 👍

But that’s not the same as saying that “The issue the Catholic Church had was with Catechesis being taught by non-Bishops.”
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What I meant by the above, highlighted is that the curriculum of Catechesis, over time, was delegated down to the nuns (mostly the younger nuns), college theologians, and then eventually to the laity. Many Bishops were not involved in direct oversight of what was being taught and how the faith was being taught. Over time, errors and/or bad practices crept in and now that many Bishops are trying to regain control, they are receiving resistance.

A great example is The Coup at Catholic University: catholic.com/focus/18

God Bless
 
May be I am starting to understand this statement by a poster.

I was in an ‘American’ Catholic parish. The archbishop of whom I studied under later, had one of his representatives come to the parish to tell them there is no such thing as an ‘American Church’.

This parish prided itself in not having a rosary to the Blessed Virgin publicly recited for 20 years. There were no images of Blessed Mother in the church. When I came in, there was an icon of Theotokos next to the doorway and I got this impression that it was put there to have people think of her while leaving Mass. Later I met the woman who did that and she told me that was the very inspiration she got in prayer from Mary to do this.

We eventually got a Mary statue in our chapel where we have daily Mass.

But in the meantime, when the new catechism came out, the ‘controllers’ of the parish were stating that the catechism was to be only studied by the lay professionals…them. It didn’t work out.

When I did start studies with the Archdiocese, we accessed the Catechism constantly for all the studies of the foundation of our faith.

The Catholic Catechism should be used along with bible study in every Catholic parish. I was in one group and when the leadership decided to use a ‘Spirit filled’ series without the catechism, we experienced not being fully fed by the Lord.

Scripture is the Word of God and the Catechism is the tradition of faith in how we live out His Word.
 
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