Patriotic music at Mass

[Gift_from_God]

I said no because I feel as Catholics we are one large global body. I’m okay with my Church having a Canadian flag and my priest saying “God help Canada” because we do live there, but I am not in favour of the patriotic music

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

It has nothing to do with the Sermon on the mount, Take my yoke upon your shoulders, last Sunday, Sower and seed, this coming Sunday. Perhaps you can tell me a Gospel reading that it might fit.

So we should also never sing “Hail Holy Queen” because the BVM is never referred to in the gosples as the Holy Queen?

I as not aware that every Hymn had to deal Directly with the Gospel Reading that Day.

Again I will ask what part of it do you find that should not be said withing a Mass?

 

[FAB]

So we should also never sing “Hail Holy Queen” because the BVM is never referred to in the gosples as the Holy Queen?

I as not aware that every Hymn had to deal Directly with the Gospel Reading that Day.

Again I will ask what part of it do you find that should not be said withing a Mass?

Actually there are Gospel readings about the Virgin Mary as well solemnities celebrating her. Perfect occasions to sing “Hail Holy Queen”

Battle hymn is a war song, it has no place in the liturgy.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Actually there are Gospel readings about the Virgin Mary as well solemnities celebrating her. Perfect occasions to sing “Hail Holy Queen”

Battle hymn is a war song, it has no place in the liturgy.

The Gospel talking about the Virgin Mary is not the Same as A Hymn sing about the Queenship of.

And Again what exact part of that song is not appropreate. Also as has been pointed out the Processional and recessional are prior and after the Mass so they are in in the Liturgy.

 

[FAB]

The Gospel talking about the Virgin Mary is not the Same as A Hymn sing about the Queenship of.

And Again what exact part of that song is not appropreate. Also as has been pointed out the Processional and recessional are prior and after the Mass so they are in in the Liturgy.

Cathlic Doctric talks of Mary as Holy Queen, so any time there is a celebration for Mary, the song is appropriate.

Parts not Appropriate:

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:

"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;

He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Cathlic Doctric talks of Mary as Holy Queen, so any time there is a celebration for Mary, the song is appropriate.

I agree and I have no problem with it I use it because you state that the Battle Hymn of the Repubilc did not relate to the Gospel and I contined that non of the Gospels deal with Her queenship. Chruch teaching is also that We are the Chruch Militant.

Parts not Appropriate:

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:

“In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent,” and Isaiah 63:3 states, “I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury.” Revelation 14:19 describes an angel casting grapes into “the great winepress of the wrath of God” (14:19), and Revelation 19:15 describes the Word of God who wields “a sharp sword” and “treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

Really, should not be in the Mass?

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:

Though I can find no direct bibleical referrence in this verse I find nothin objectable either.

"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;

Is that not talking about God Justice. and treat as you wish to be treated Judge as you will be judged.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;

The fourth verse alludes to 2 Corinthians 5:10, which states that “we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,

The sixth verse refers to the Earth as the footstool of God, a claim which appears in Isaiah 66:1, Matthew 5:35, and Acts 7:49.

these biblical referance come from the wikipedia site for the song. I all looks biblical to me and in so I can not see that it is not appreate to the Mass.

 

[Paxvobis]

At Mass last Saturday evening, the choir played America the Beautiful as the processional and My Country Tis’ of Thee as the recessional hymn.

Personally, I don’t think it’s appropriate. It distracts from the sacrifice we are preparing to offer. It distracted me personally, as I already have problems going to OF Masses.

Don’t get me wrong, I love patriotic music and I have lots of patriotic feelings, especially around the Fourth of July. Nothing wrong with that. But, and I can’t stress this enough, patriotic songs are the wrong musical accompaniment for the Sacrifice of Calvary.

It’s wrong for the same reason why eulogies during the Requiem Mass is wrong. We shouldn’t be heaping praise on individuals or groups of individuals during the Mass. We should be focused on the altar and on the word of God.

 

[sojo]

Every parish we have attended seems to do it. I’m not comfortable with the practice. I love my country, but that precious hour or so should be largely dedicated to Christ and not my country.

However, I understand that this is not really in keeping with my other thought, which is that it is nice to include our country in the prayer intentions for the faithful. Why not pray for our country along with the Pope, the Bishop, our political leaders and all the rest - especially on a National holiday.

But since the beginning and ending hymns sort of couch the whole Mass, I prefer to keep them Christ centered.

 

[quiet52]

It has nothing to do with the Sermon on the mount, Take my yoke upon your shoulders, last Sunday, Sower and seed, this coming Sunday. Perhaps you can tell me a Gospel reading that it might fit.

I don’t think it’s a requirement that each song sung during the Liturgy has to specifically match the theme of the Gospel reading.

However, the Battle Hymn does seem to correspond well to the First Reading and the Responsorial Psalm for last Sunday, especially this verse:

Let all your works give you thanks, O Lord, and let your faithful ones bless you. Let them discourse of the glory of your kingdom and speak of your might.
Response: I will praise your name forever, my king and my God.

Also, for July 3rd the Entrance Antiphon, which sets the theme for the readings (but which we generally don’t hear because of the entrance song), was this:

In my justice I shall see your face, O Lord; when your glory appears, my joy will be full. (Psalm 16:15)

Glory, glory, hallelujah – might be a patriotic song but it is also quite spiritual!

 

[FAB]

I don’t think it’s a requirement that each song sung during the Liturgy has to specifically match the theme of the Gospel reading.

However, the Battle Hymn does seem to correspond well to the First Reading and the Responsorial Psalm for last Sunday, especially this verse:

Also, for July 3rd the Entrance Antiphon, which sets the theme for the readings (but which we generally don’t hear because of the entrance song), was this:

Glory, glory, hallelujah – might be a patriotic song but it is also quite spiritual!

Actually, liturgically the music needs to reflect the readings, particularly the Gospel.
the battle hymn is a war song about God taking sides to defeat the enemy and the enemy wasn’t the devil.
the Old Testament is all about God helping to defeating the Enemies of Israel, but that is not the message of Love Thy Neighbor from Christ. In ligtht of Christ’s message we have re-examined the OT to more fully understand to Father.
The hymn was written about a war that tore a county apart.

 

[FAB]

these biblical referance come from the wikipedia site for the song. I all looks biblical to me and in so I can not see that it is not appreate to the Mass.

I didn’t say it didn’t have biblical reference, but that it doesn’t reflect the teaching of the Gospels.

 

[I_love_rocks]

Actually there are Gospel readings about the Virgin Mary as well solemnities celebrating her. Perfect occasions to sing “Hail Holy Queen”

Battle hymn is a war song, it has no place in the liturgy.

We are the church militant. There is always a war going on - God and Satan, God’s people and the evil one’s, angels and demons, good and bad…

 

[ChiRho]

We are the church militant. There is always a war going on - God and Satan, God’s people and the evil one’s, angels and demons, good and bad…

The problem with the Battle Hymn of the Republic is that it is a nationalistic song which inspires very sore feelings among some, not that there is any problem with being militant about some things.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

The problem with the Battle Hymn of the Republic is that it is a nationalistic song which inspires very sore feelings among some, not that there is any problem with being militant about some things.

Other that the name of the Song there is not a word about nationalism in the song. I find nothing in the song that even remotely Points to America. Love it a a child long before I knew the name if it. Did not even realize that it was not a “church” Hymn till I was in my 20’sIt is very inspiring Words

Glory, Glory Halaluiah, Glory, Glory Halaluiah, His truth is marching on.

Also why would a nationalic song about America inspire sore feeling among Americans?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I didn’t say it didn’t have biblical reference, but that it doesn’t reflect the teaching of the Gospels.

So The teaching of the Gospels is different than the rest of the Bible?

Also As has been poited out the Hyms sang at Mass do not have to relate Directly to the Gospel reading of the Day. And the Recessional Is not part of the Mass.

 

[ChiRho]

Also why would a nationalic song about America inspire sore feeling among Americans?

Are you not familiar with the Civil War?

 

[Little_One0307]

Wow there’s more people who do not like that this happens either. Glad to see that I do not stand alone.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

My personal opinion is that the Mass should not contain elements of national music or culture as it can detract from the focus of God and Christ. However, I do not see an issue of it being incorporated into part of a larger affair (such as a festival).

 

[FAB]

So The teaching of the Gospels is different than the rest of the Bible?

Also As has been poited out the Hyms sang at Mass do not have to relate Directly to the Gospel reading of the Day. And the Recessional Is not part of the Mass.

The teachings of christ is God’s salvation and love for us with the command that were are take care of our fellow man and woman. THe Old testament is God’s salvation message as witnessed through the history of the Hebrews.

Those who think that the opening and closing hymns do not need to continue to refect the messages of the Gospel and don’t need to be sacred music are in error.

The proper place to pray for one’s country is during the prayers of the people. It is certainly right to pray for our leaders to be lead and listen to the word of God as well as to pray for God to bring the people of a nation to Him.

The is no patriotic hymn that falls under the catigory of sacred. Just because it is printed in church hymnals, doesn’t make them so. There are beautiful songs but should be sung at the appropriate venues, that is not the liturgy of the mass.

 

[pnewton]

Those who think that the opening and closing hymns do not need to continue to refect the messages of the Gospel and don’t need to be sacred music are in error.

LOL. I don’t think so. Here is what the GIRM says of the entrance:
*
foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical season or festivity, and accompany the procession of the priest and ministers.*

There is no other instructions given in the GIRM as to music. Sing to the Lord says:
*

The choice of individual compositions for congregational participation will often depend on those ways in which a particular group finds it best to join their hearts and minds to the liturgical action.

*For example, greater feasts such as Easter
Sunday or Pentecost might suggest a chanted Gospel, but a recited Gospel might be more
appropriate for Ordinary Time. Musical selections and the use of additional instruments reflect
the season of the liturgical year or feast that is being celebrated.

Because these popular
hymns are fulfilling a properly liturgical role, it is especially important that they be
appropriate to the liturgical action. In accord with an uninterrupted history of nearly five
centuries, nothing prevents the use of some congregational hymns coming from other
Christian traditions, provided that their texts are in conformity with Catholic teaching and
they are appropriate to the Catholic Liturgy.*

usccb.org/liturgy/SingToTheLord.pdf

I found nothing upon which your statement could be based. Might I suggest you tell us where you came up with your statement? If it is your opinion, that is fine, except in as far as you accuse others of error for disagreeing with a personal opinion you hold. I personally choose music reflect of the Gospel, any of the readings or the occasion. For example, I sang O Sanctissima on Mother’s Day, I refuse to accept this as an error unless you can give some pretty black and white evidence. I do not think the Church holds your opinion.