Paul Corrupted/Created Christianity

[simplynoone]

Simplynoone, if you could go more than one post without mentioning how YOU have the truth, YOU’VE discovered this, YOU know that YOU follow God and others don’t, YOU, YOU, YOU…well, it would be really great. .

Well to begin with you should have the Catholic Version, if you want to discuss Catholic faith, and the catholic bible, you should begin there. YOUR version means nothing to me. We as Catholics go by the Church. You know the Catholic Church, the Living Christ, What Jesus left to us, until he comes AGAIN in glory. So thats the problem there, your version. We go by Gods Version. So how can you even begin to understand the readings of Paul and teaching’s of Paul when you clearly show you don’t have them. I suggest you spend some time alone today in your room. Asking the Holy Spirit to help you, with Grace from God to give you some Peace you desperately need. If you go to Our Lord Jesus Christ he can help you with that. I have not the power or the help you are seeking, but Jesus does. But again I will pray that you some how find peace in your heart, that you are clearly in desperate need of. Then next you may want to pick up a Catholic Bible and start reading. Then you can at least have the right scripture before you try to determine it for yourself. Then you can find in there that you cannot define scripture, it must be taught to you. By the Church that GOD LEFT US. Thats your best chance at this point.

These are mighty bold claims being made. I have the knowledge of the foundation that you claim your rights to. I did come to learn and thus far I am being told that I am wrong because the Church says so and yet the church would not exist without the foundation that I have the knowledge of. So, I am curious, what is it that convinces you that you have the Truth. I am playing very fairly by giving you knowledge of the foundation that your rights are based on; but am receiving little, save biting remarks, from you all to understand where Christ gained the authority to give away what was given to Israel.

I do not know why that would bother you so. By the way, I do have the Truth… it is not my Truth, so your anger is not at me and is hardly offensive to me. But the one the Truth comes from, well, that is what you are angry at.

If the above was not true, than why do you not get mad at those making the bold claims about the Church based on… well, on what? That is the knowledge I seek.

And by the way… I respect and am grateful that you all have given a forum for such discussions. Rest assured of that. But the more that I am being attacked instead of having my questions answered and being warned that I have to be respectful (though I am not being disrespectful… especially in light of), I have to wonder what the point is?

Was this forum only to make fun of others beliefs…

or was it to learn of others beliefs and teach them of yours?

Because all it takes is one quick glance through the threads to see that the latter has not been the case. I have no problem giving you respect, but is it too much to ask for the same in return? I am asking questions, so the accusations that I am not here to learn are false.

 

[simplynoone]

I wanted to share something with you all. Romans 11. As I said, Paul played His role as it was declared from the beginning and it was for your sakes that a sacrifice of God’s Son (as defined by God in Hosea 11:1, Exodus 4:22,23) was made. God promised not to hide these things from the eyes of His children and He is not. So, why is it that you can not answer the questions I ask of you? … I think “Paul” actually does answer it quite nicely.

Romans 11… the plan that can be found clearly in the whole of the Tanakh.

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Can you tell me what that last part means? And back it up with the foundation that even Paul will admit holds the keys… the Word of God given to the Son of God (hosea 11:1 - there it can be found your answer)

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Psalm 2

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

 

[simplynoone]

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. Because they are His Son… they are redeemed no matter what … save, they do not have knowledge… which is the concern of some of wondering where the concept of Christ came from.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. to Israel for your sakes

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. Hmmm… Perhaps Simplynoone is on to something… perhaps knowing the foundation is for our benefit.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Gift(S), not gift.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

The Word came into the world and the world knew him not.

How do I know the above speaks the Truth amidst the deception? Because I know the foundation… the beginning. Deuteronomy lays it out clearly (though the whole of the Tanakh is about this… that is where the contract was made… and this is what Jesus meant when he said he came to fufill the Law… though it was not as you say it is… it literally is for the house of Israel, else I would like to see how it is as you say… fair enough I think).

This is your salvation. If it is not, then please show me where it is that Christ has been declared in the foundation that he suddenly appeared to be based on?
Psalm 2…and can you now, tell me, please… who it is the Son, declared in Hosea 11:2 and in Exodus 4?

You certainly can show me I am wrong. I can claim I have the Truth just as you all have. I back up my claims with the Tanakh… what are yours backed up on? That is where my curiosity rests.

 

[simplynoone]

Which laws that Jesus meant in Mat 5:17-19? Which laws was observed by the Jewish during Jesus’ time. Ben Masada has no answer for this question, perhaps you do.

I figured to touch on this again might be beneficial in helping you to understand my perspective. You have to know that Ben and I are coming from different angles and so my answer to you is not going to be the same as his answer to you. To expect such is to limit the creativity of the Creator, wouldn’t you think?

For me, the answer is found in Jeremiah 31… the covenant that is specifically made with the house of Israel. It is written on the heart and so it is quite personal between the Creator and those to whom it is written. It is spoken of in the allegorical teaching of Jesus when he does certain of things that are considered against the Laws written and observed by the Jewish. Their Laws are serving as a Light in the darkness despite whether it is acknowledged by all or not. They are not meant to be seen as a burden but rather an act of Love from a people to their own.

The Laws of God written on the heart in the house of Israel could possibly, no?, be better understood in light of what I have presented in the above posts. It is interesting to ponder on, wouldn’t you say? I guess I would say as much and that it why I tend to follow curiosities despite being treated sorely. I am curious as to where the concept of Christ originated in the view of the Church and am rather disappointed that though I am asking to understand, I am being denied the enlightenment I seek from you all.

 

[simplynoone]

I know noone is responding which is understandable considering, but I am still going to reply to the posts that have been made to me… for your own sakes.

Oh my some truth. Guess what I even agree with you. You did have the truth. But then when our Lord came back he was rejected by you.

I will admit to rejecting Christ and I did this because the only place in which I can find foundation for his existence is in mythologies of the hellenistic cultures. I, by the way, was raised in the Christian faith and it was just that… faith… not to be questioned. I was treated very much as I am being treated here during my growing up years; which is to say, ridiculed, spoken down to, punished and/or ignored… anything and everything but having my question answered directly.

Where is this from because I do not see it in the foundation that it is attached to?

And so Jews are no longer the chosen People.

I can prove, even with the NT now (and it was exactly as it was declared to be that made me see the Light here over the last couple of days… so I do have need to thank you all) that the above is not true… again, with the NT now and it is consistent with the foundation

Can you show me how the below statement can be shown to be consistent with the foundation upon which it rests? The Truth is in that statement but it is called the Law of God and you do not subscribe to it… and it is, as it is clearly written out, because of the disobedience of the children of God that you do have that truth… but the version that the Church subscribes to is the corrupt version… even, as I will show, by the declaration of Paul.

It is the gentliles who have the truth now.

Why do attack the chosen of God in such biting ways? Do you think that just because those who are chosen disobeyed, they are no longer worthy of acceptance by the God who chose them? Do you not believe God is capable of redeeming them exactly as He declared? Why do you bite so hard and with such pride when if it were not for their disobedience, the gentiles would not even have this wonderful opportunity of being grafted into the vine? That is something I would think those not originally part of the vine would be grateful to the chosen about.

we know who God is. You cannot accept this truth. We have, and we have the Living Church. We do not call the apostles of CHrists liars, we do not try to twist the gospel to work into our minds. We have the Church. The Roman Catholic Church. We have the Pope. We have it all. Nothing is lacking, We have faith, we have the Pope, we have the Church the living Christ. There is nothing else left. **We have the law and it is hard to keep the commandments and to show Love to people like you who try tricks, and lies. **But we must love, and if we do not feel love at the moment we pray. That is again what I must do for you is pray. And I must love my those who try to persecute my God and my Church. But it is difficult. But with my Love for Jesus, it will over power any bad feeling and help me through difficult times. May our dear Lord come into your heart and show you the peace he has given me, and you so sadly seek.

Yes, I understand… perhaps it has something to do with the foundation being out of course. Let me see if I can help out.

Jesus = representative of the Word of God that most are denying…
Christ = the worshiping of a man/image rather than understanding what was being represented… in other words, chosing paganism over worshiping the True God
the disciples = the ones to hold the truth and keep the foundation from becoming thoroughly corrupted because…

and here is the part that is what should be drawing out thanks from the world…

of the disobedience of the children of Israel who were continually being corrupted into the idolotry worship of the surrounding nations. So, God cut them off… to bless the Gentiles, in fact. So that is what Paul means when he said in Romans 11: 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (success, I’d say, no? )

Certain of the Jewish have been the ones responsible from keeping the foundation from being corrupted… and for the lack of knowledge and the overwhelming influence of paganism, many have been perishing… they are the reason any one in this world even have the opportunity to hear about what true salvation is! And the disobedience of the children that everyone is so adament on judging is the very reason the Gentiles even have been afforded the opportunity to have a chance at that salvation.

Paul… has just had his message set straight based on the foundation in which it was placed beside for a reason…

Romans 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Think about the above… notice the FOR between law and righteousness?
Funny, the true message of Paul was being held in bonds by none others than those who corrupted the message… and he left clues to point to the Truth afterall. Since, after all, he is confirming here that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness… and Christ really is the end of the Law for righteousness.

One more declaration to make sure you thoroughly understand what I am saying. The Law is for Righteousness… and to believe in Christ is to cut yourself off. And that is consistent with the foundation.

 

[simplynoone]

A bit more light to shed for you all on the history of your Church and the (now I am convinced and would like to claim him myself ) beloved Paul.

I clarified that Jesus represents the Word that is here in the world thanks to the Jewish. Well, as I was reading through Romans it occurred to me that Jesus Christ was representative of the disobedient children that God (who were still children of God but corrupted by the Gentile’s paganistic Christ… thus Jesus Christ). Ironic, no? Jesus Christ representing the ones that you judge, the reason for the corrupt version of the Word, the NT, coming to the Gentiles. Wow How brilliant is that? So, technically, I guess not only can Jesus be justified through knowledge given the Jews, but Paul can be taken back through the knowledge of the disobedient children!

Again… just making this clear…
Jesus = The son (Israel) of God that is the reason the correct view of the Word of God is in the world still. Thankyou!

Christ = The Gentiles, other nations and worshipers of idols… the reason their was corruption in the world.

Jesus Christ = The part of the son (Israel) of God that had become mixed in with the corruption… by blood. (but not by spirit… as it talks about them being put to death… in other words, to sleep spiritually)… and this is the reason for the NT coming to the Gentiles which hidden behind the idolotry on the surface was the Truth to call out to the children of God by pricking their hearts which God, having made the covenant in Jeremiah 31, had written the Laws on their heart in order to redeem them back to Him.

And what is referred to as Old is actually the Pure Word of God and it came attached so that the foundation could be straight for anyone who cared enough to know why it was they could not feel settled in the views they were being taught.

Amazing, huh? THUS, why the Jewish would not and could not accept Paul, RIGHTFULLY SO, and no wonder he consistently talked about being in bonds. It was the bonds of the Gentile paganism; because he was preaching the truth in the form of the Gentile’s lies for the sake of his own. Catering to the Gentile’s sensibilities and speaking harshly of his own flesh and blood gave the Gentiles the appeal to adopt it… and he did thus for the sake of the children of God.

Makes perfect sense when read allegorically… which is the way that I view the Torah, which was what enabled me to be able to finally see this! So anything corrupt in the NT Paul, if it allegorically can not be fit into the PURE Word of God… well, its up for grabs as well… but anything that rings of Truth allegorically, that was written for the children of God.

Look and be Amazed:

Romans 1:
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

In other words, thank goodness for the blind faith of the gentiles with their idolotry in order to be able to spread the Word of God throughout the whole world for the sake of the children of God who were cut off into the gene pool.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Thus why Jesus said in John 4 “In Spirit and in Truth.” … Is not God brilliant?

10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

And considering what Isaiah said (a page back should serve as an interesting read, no?)

In this view, I can pick out all sorts of truths that Paul threw in… as I have shown. So, in reality, the church was handed the keys… but the key was the Jesus part of the Jesus Christ! aka the chidren of God.

My version is at least consistent with the foundation! pats self on back

 

[swariffin]

Ya know what my rule of thumb is?

If while I am reading the Word of God, I feel a prick in my heart, then I take note and consider. It never takes long to figure out what it is and I adjust my perspective accordingly. Ben is the more knowledgable about the Torah than I am in the way that it is observed by the Jewish. I have been confirmed that I am on the right path. And it all has to do with that one Seal that keeps me secure (one you do not have on your faith)… Malachi 3:6 The LORD does not change.

The Laws of God are perfect for convert-ING the soul. It is enlightenment!! It is Truth!!

Psalm 19:

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Look at all the gorgeous things He has set up in His Laws that you all are missing out on.
If you would, notice the converting the soul; the making wise the simple; rejoicing the heart; enlightening the eyes. sighs in adoration

So, you take your quick fix… I like God’s ways. But the OP laid down the premise and I am complying.

Keep looking for the correct tripping stone… you can not find it when it comes to those who know the Truth.

Don’t you know that Ben told me there was a change in Jewish Thorah from 30’s to the 2009? In the first century, curing people was fobidden. Now it is OK. The Jewish are moving toward Jesus’ teaching, you know. Perhaps in year 4000 AD they will accept Jesus 100%, not just 20%.

 

[swariffin]

Well, that Paul invented the Last Supper, is not too far from the truth, considering that the Supper before Passover is called among us the Seder Meal, which was held in that year 30 on Friday, which Jesus could never have partaken of. He was on the cross. That was the 14 of Nissan. Next Saturday was a Shabbaton. That is, the Festival of Passover on the Sabbath. Therefore, Paul could very well have invented the Last Supper after all.

Ben:

Where in the bible saying the last supper was the night before Passover?

BTW, at 33 AD, there were 2 well known Jewish Rabbi, called Hillel and Shammai. Their calendar of Passover even miss by 1 day.

 

[simplynoone]

Don’t you know that Ben told me there was a change in Jewish Thorah from 30’s to the 2009? In the first century, curing people was fobidden. Now it is OK. The Jewish are moving toward Jesus’ teaching, you know. Perhaps in year 4000 AD they will accept Jesus 100%, not just 20%.

Oh. good to see that you only live by his example rather than worshiping him as God.I know this because if you worshiped his image, you would not expect mankind to still be here in 4,000 AD since the christians… well, shouldn’t he be arriving some time soon? I would rather think that if it would be the Church that was down to 20% acceptance at that time.

By the way, you should be rather grateful that you are receiving any help at all to try and see this straight… the guideline is at the beginning of the Book, not the end.

 

[swariffin]

I figured to touch on this again might be beneficial in helping you to understand my perspective. You have to know that Ben and I are coming from different angles and so my answer to you is not going to be the same as his answer to you. To expect such is to limit the creativity of the Creator, wouldn’t you think?

For me, the answer is found in Jeremiah 31… the covenant that is specifically made with the house of Israel. It is written on the heart and so it is quite personal between the Creator and those to whom it is written. It is spoken of in the allegorical teaching of Jesus when he does certain of things that are considered against the Laws written and observed by the Jewish. Their Laws are serving as a Light in the darkness despite whether it is acknowledged by all or not. They are not meant to be seen as a burden but rather an act of Love from a people to their own.

The Laws of God written on the heart in the house of Israel could possibly, no?, be better understood in light of what I have presented in the above posts. It is interesting to ponder on, wouldn’t you say? I guess I would say as much and that it why I tend to follow curiosities despite being treated sorely. I am curious as to where the concept of Christ originated in the view of the Church and am rather disappointed that though I am asking to understand, I am being denied the enlightenment I seek from you all.

Very interesting reply, indeed. Could you ponder one more thing? If you believe that the law of God is planted to the heart of human, why Jesus challenged the Pharisee by curing the sick during Sabbath? That can only happen because there was a rule that curing was forbidden, correct? It was exactly that Jesus came for. To bring people back to the law of God. Curing other people means loving other human, and such law of God should be greater than man-made law of observing Sabbath. That was also why Jesus said “I am the Lord of Sabbath” (Mat 12:8) also in Mark and Luke.

 

[simplynoone]

Very interesting reply, indeed. Could you ponder one more thing? If you believe that the law of God is planted to the heart of human, why Jesus challenged the Pharisee by curing the sick during Sabbath? That can only happen because there was a rule that curing was forbidden, correct? It was exactly that Jesus came for. To bring people back to the law of God. Curing other people means loving other human, and such law of God should be greater than man-made law of observing Sabbath. That was also why Jesus said “I am the Lord of Sabbath” (Mat 12:8) also in Mark and Luke.

What was said specifically was, 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. There is a difference between saying Jesus said, I am… ; and what it actually says.

 

[ralphinal]

1. I asked what fulfilled meant in that passage because he said it at the same time he said that he was not there to abolish the law. Some people have loved throwing that part around, but will not say what Jesus meant when he said fulfiled.
2. I re-read all three letters of John last night. John opened almost every part of the first one calling the reader “Children” or “Beloved.” Are you now going to assert that Paul wrote it as well?
3. According to some historians, the Essens in the first century may have kept a separate calender from the rest of Judaism. This could give you a different night for passover, assuming Jesus was an Essen, which he might have been.
4. Christ is the Greek for annointed. I do think that Messiah is the Hebrew for the same thing. Sorry, translating a word does not invalidate it.

 

[simplynoone]

1. I asked what fulfilled meant in that passage because he said it at the same time he said that he was not there to abolish the law. Some people have loved throwing that part around, but will not say what Jesus meant when he said fulfiled.

Just as no one will tell me what God declared in Hosea 11:1.

Deuteronomy is a good place to read to understand what Jesus meant.

1. I re-read all three letters of John last night. John opened almost every part of the first one calling the reader “Children” or “Beloved.” Are you now going to assert that Paul wrote it as well?

I am saying that whoever had a hand in the writings attributed to Paul also had their hand in the writings attributed to John… they are too similar. I read them and I am hearing the same tone. Proof? The writing styles.

1. According to some historians, the Essens in the first century may have kept a separate calender from the rest of Judaism. This could give you a different night for passover, assuming Jesus was an Essen, which he might have been.

1. Christ is the Greek for annointed. I do think that Messiah is the Hebrew for the same thing. Sorry, translating a word does not invalidate it.

1. Christ might have been (very plausible)… Jesus, no.
2. Jesus was not THE Messiah. Christ was the Gentile messiah. How well is that working out?

What do you say to the following passage found in Mark 12… can you catch what it is that Jesus caught?

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

 

[ralphinal]

Just as no one will tell me what God declared in Hosea 11:1.

Deuteronomy is a good place to read to understand what Jesus meant.

I am saying that whoever had a hand in the writings attributed to Paul also had their hand in the writings attributed to John… they are too similar. I read them and I am hearing the same tone. Proof? The writing styles.

1. Christ might have been (very plausible)… Jesus, no.
2. Jesus was not THE Messiah. Christ was the Gentile messiah. How well is that working out?

What do you say to the following passage found in Mark 12… can you catch what it is that Jesus caught?

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

What if I said that the verse in Hosea was a prophacy about Jesus?

There is more to textual analysis than the tone seems the same or even the style. The fact is that you cannot proove or disprove authorship based on a translation of a translation of a writing done 2000 years ago. You need authintic copies of the original text or the text itself.

Why could Jesus not have been an Essene? JOhn the Baptist more than likely was.

What do you want from the Messiah? What will he accomplish?

 

[simplynoone]

What if I said that the verse in Hosea was a prophacy about Jesus?

There is more to textual analysis than the tone seems the same or even the style. The fact is that you cannot proove or disprove authorship based on a translation of a translation of a writing done 2000 years ago. You need authintic copies of the original text or the text itself.

Why could Jesus not have been an Essene? JOhn the Baptist more than likely was.

What do you want from the Messiah? What will he accomplish?

Isaiah 47:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

Isaiah 48:
3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;
5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

Seems to me like the Word of the LORD is being pretty adament here. He is very clear and from the chapters 42-49 in Isaiah… He has this same theme… over and over and over. " I declared it from the beginning."

I want one person to show that they are honest; quit filling in your own interpretations; and tell me… WHO DOES GOD DECLARE IS HIS SON? WHAT DOES IT SAY? Just one time… answer my question as it is written, please. I have given and given and given… and the fact that NO ONE is willing to comply says **ALOT!! **

 

[simplynoone]

What do you want from the Messiah? What will he accomplish?

I have in my opinion, met the messiah. It is called the Word of God and He gives me knowledge and understanding both in the Scriptures and through the mouth of His people. I have the best of both, and all I had to do to get such valuable treasures was to give up faith… That is when understanding came to me of what it is meant by the Law of God is perfect for converting the soul: the TESTIMONY OF THE LORD IS SURE making wise the simple; the statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart (so true): the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes!!

And not only did I not have to wait to start receiving these most valued of treasures, but they continue to pour out in great abundance. What greater salvation could there be but to free one’s soul and really LIVE along side of Life?

 

[ralphinal]

Isaiah 47:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

Isaiah 48:
3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;
5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

Seems to me like the Word of the LORD is being pretty adament here. He is very clear and from the chapters 42-49 in Isaiah… He has this same theme… over and over and over. " I declared it from the beginning."

I want one person to show that they are honest; quit filling in your own interpretations; and tell me… WHO DOES GOD DECLARE IS HIS SON? WHAT DOES IT SAY? Just one time… answer my question as it is written, please. I have given and given and given… and the fact that NO ONE is willing to comply says **ALOT!! **

Ironic that you want us not to give our interpretations when all you do is give yours.

Yes, it does say that Isreal is the son of God. David also said that he saw his Lord sitting beside His Lord. How can that be? Why does Genesis us “We” when the concept of the Emperial we did not exist in that era or location at that time?

 

[ralphinal]

I have in my opinion, met the messiah. It is called the Word of God and He gives me knowledge and understanding both in the Scriptures and through the mouth of His people. I have the best of both, and all I had to do to get such valuable treasures was to give up faith… That is when understanding came to me of what it is meant by the Law of God is perfect for converting the soul: the TESTIMONY OF THE LORD IS SURE making wise the simple; the statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart (so true): the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes!!

And not only did I not have to wait to start receiving these most valued of treasures, but they continue to pour out in great abundance. What greater salvation could there be but to free one’s soul and really LIVE along side of Life?

You are correct. The Word of God is the Messiah. In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us!!!

 

[tobinatorstark]

Faith is all that is required for you to be saved by Jesus. Think about it.

Faith required. But is dead without works and likewise with works. What don’t people get??

James 2:20-26
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

What works you may ask. Have you ever read about the corporal and spiritual works of mercy witch were in our daily readings very recently.

Matthew 25:31-46

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

 

[swariffin]

What was said specifically was, 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. There is a difference between saying Jesus said, I am… ; and what it actually says.

When you mentioned simplynoone, you are refering to yourself, correct? Surely your name is not “Simplynoone”. When you mention, simplynoone, surely you are refering to yourself, right?

Jesus like to call himself “Son of Man”. When you see the word “Son of Man” are you thinking of somebody else?

My point of my previous posting actually a question for you to ponder. Do you see a difference of the Thorah law in the mind of Jesus, to the Thorah law actually observed by the Jews at that time?