Paul Ryan Discussion

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DeSanto said:
Fair enough. What would happen if we just got rid of it? I would need specifics, I want to know what the alternative is. I just don’t think you say hey, get rid of DOE and everything will just work itself out. That’s not a plan.
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The plan would be to send that control back to the local level where it would be more attuned to what is needed in each area. In education, one size does not fit all and anytime you get the federal government involved, nothing good happens. I dare say that students learned more before the establishment of the DOE than they have since.
 
LisaA said:
Look I’ve said plenty about the GOP’s overspending, over reaching, and weakness in the face of expanding deficits. OTOH they are pikers compared to the Democrats. Our debt has ballooned more in three years than in the past decade. The Dems passed the stimulus which meant borrowing money in China to fill potholes and pay back the unions. Dodd Frank is killing our finance industry and what I have to say about Obamacare cannot be repeated in polite company.

As to school choice I think the idea of vouchers are GREAT so Ryan isn’t speaking code, he’s very open about his ideas. Why should children be stuck in horrible schools on the basis of geography alone? Parents desperate to get their kids in decent schools are being charged with CRIMES for say claiming a parent’s address as their own so the child can go to a better school. Dollars following the student will mean competition and these failing schools will have to get off their butts and improve or close down. Schools are all about teachers now not about students. It’s been going downhill for years and the more powerful the NEA the less quality in the schools. This is not something I made up…

As to the rich vs poor “taking advantage” of tax laws, government benefits, sure as long as what they are doing is legal. FWIW I don’t think putting in a fraudulent disability claim or lying on an application for food stamps is either legal or ethical. But I also disdain the greedy hogs who did the NINJA loans and bought real estate they couldn’t afford because they thought it would go up forever. Instead we the taxpayers are holding the bag.

I believe everyone should be honest in dealings with the public and private sector. I have no problem seeing a cheating banker or Wall Street type frog marched out of his corner office. Someone like Bernie Madoff should be put in a bare cell with gruel to eat IMO. Now speaking of the Obama administration, somehow the DOJ has time to sue states for enforcing federal laws and voter ID requirements but after ALL of the fraud and corruption on Wall Street could they find ONE SINGLE PERSON to prosecute? Nope. Tell me that Democrats hate the rich and want to help the poor. Far as I can see, they let all those slimebags just skate.

Lisa
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I just cannot do this with you. It’s not worth it. I have so much I want to say but everytime I get halfway through a comment…I just keep erasing it knowing it will do no good and you will just find a way to argue with it. All I really wanted to talk about was the rich v poor and your sucking me into a never ending debate that has nothing to do with what I am trying to convey.

I have strong opinions on these other subjects but, This is all I wish to discuss…
I will put it as simple as I can for you…

Rich v Poor- if you have disdain for able body people that are living under the poverty level on purpose to take advantage of the assistance there for them (legally). then you should also have disdain for people able to pay their share of taxes yet do not and hide their money off shore on purpose therefore taking advantage of the system (legally). I am not speaking of cheaters and felony offenders.

What is the difference of a poor guy taking advantage of the system legally and a rich guy taking advantage of the system legally? Where is the disconnect here??? I have disdain for both groups, why do you not? The poor guy should have to work if he is able to and the rich guy should have to pay all his taxes.
 
DeSanto said:
I just cannot do this with you. It’s not worth it. I have so much I want to say but everytime I get halfway through a comment…I just keep erasing it knowing it will do no good and you will just find a way to argue with it. All I really wanted to talk about was the rich v poor and your sucking me into a never ending debate that has nothing to do with what I am trying to convey.

I have strong opinions on these other subjects but, This is all I wish to discuss…
I will put it as simple as I can for you…

Rich v Poor- if you have disdain for able body people that are living under the poverty level on purpose to take advantage of the assistance there for them (legally). then you should also have disdain for people able to pay their share of taxes yet do not and hide their money off shore on purpose therefore taking advantage of the system (legally). I am not speaking of cheaters and felony offenders.

What is the difference of a poor guy taking advantage of the system legally and a rich guy taking advantage of the system legally? Where is the disconnect here??? I have disdain for both groups, why do you not? The poor guy should have to work if he is able to and the rich guy should have to pay all his taxes.
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The rich guy does pay of his taxes - as required by law. Romney has done nothing illegal - he has paid his taxes and has reported all of his off shore accounts as far as we know.
 
qui_est_ce said:
What strategy do you suggest? \

Every itty bitty thing that comes out of Repub’s mouths is repeated over and over and over. This morning on NPR, they again brought up Todd Akin’s faux pas.

Biden’s gaffes - go away after one day. Obama’s “you didn’t build that” perpetuated among conservatives as a joke. Addressed on NPR as “Well, Republicans are saying, but what Obama really meant.”

It’s sickening.

throwup 🙂
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👋 :coffeeread:
 
DeSanto said:
I just cannot do this with you. It’s not worth it. I have so much I want to say but everytime I get halfway through a comment…I just keep erasing it knowing it will do no good and you will just find a way to argue with it. All I really wanted to talk about was the rich v poor and your sucking me into a never ending debate that has nothing to do with what I am trying to convey.

I have strong opinions on these other subjects but, This is all I wish to discuss…
I will put it as simple as I can for you…

Rich v Poor- if you have disdain for able body people that are living under the poverty level on purpose to take advantage of the assistance there for them (legally). then you should also have disdain for people able to pay their share of taxes yet do not and hide their money off shore on purpose therefore taking advantage of the system (legally). I am not speaking of cheaters and felony offenders.

What is the difference of a poor guy taking advantage of the system legally and a rich guy taking advantage of the system legally? Where is the disconnect here??? I have disdain for both groups, why do you not? The poor guy should have to work if he is able to and the rich guy should have to pay all his taxes.
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DeSanto please read the posts not what you think they say. I said clearly I have no problem with someone who needs to access a government program, who does so without using fraud or misinformation to get those benefits.

But I do have disdain for those who use the system unnecessarily, who think they are entitled to OPM, that the world owes them something just because they are breathing. I’ve seen way too much fraud and abuse in social services to believe this is an outlier. I have even more disdain for wealthy people who use illegal or fraudulent means to pad their wallets. As I said, how the DOJ couldn’t find a SINGLE person to prosecute over the financial meltdown makes me FURIOUS!!! I am a lot more disgusted with Franklin Raines and Jamie Goerlich who “took the money and ran” leaving us holding the bag than I am some single mom accessing our Parish food pantry to feed her kids over the weekend.

To whom much is given, much MORE is asked…to paraphrase a favorite verse. Those who are blessed with a great education and successful career should be held to a higher standard. But when the highest justice office in the land looks the other way I have to wonder how committed the Administration is to justice for us taxpayers.

OK did you read this and does it make sense?

Lisa
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
The rich guy does pay of his taxes - as required by law. Romney has done nothing illegal - he has paid his taxes and has reported all of his off shore accounts as far as we know.
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What is so hard to understand…I’m not saying its illegal!!! Now we must go back to the word “hiding”. Do you wish to deny the fact that off shore accounts is the place where people “hide” their money to avoid erroneous taxes?
 
DeSanto said:
What is so hard to understand…I’m not saying its illegal!!! Now we must go back to the word “hiding”. Do you wish to deny the fact that off shore accounts is the place where people “hide” their money to avoid erroneous taxes?
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Everyone takes deductions and puts money into shelters.

And the money being sent over has already been taxed here and any interest earn is taxed here.

What’s so hard to understand about that?
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
Everyone takes deductions and puts money into shelters.

And the money being sent over has already been taxed here and any interest earn is taxed here.

What’s so hard to understand about that?
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It absolves Romney of any perceived wrong-doing!!😛
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
It would seem so.

I don’t see the same things said about Obama, and his associations with Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Van Jones, etc.
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You know I HEARD Obama was “hiding” money in off shore accounts, not that there is anything wrong with that.

I also heard Obama was taking full advantage of tax loopholes in order to lessen his tax burden.

:rolleyes:
 
LisaA said:
DeSanto please read the posts not what you think they say. I said clearly I have no problem with someone who needs to access a government program, who does so without using fraud or misinformation to get those benefits.

But I do have disdain for those who use the system unnecessarily, who think they are entitled to OPM, that the world owes them something just because they are breathing.
THIS IS LEGAL!
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I understand. You want to compare legal activity with illegal activity, avoid the question entirely and distract with a completely different subject. Let me try one more time.

Legal: One who chooses to live in poverty in order to obtain food stamps. (why, I don’t know) = Disdain

Legal: One who chooses to put their money in tax shelters in order to avoid erroneous taxes. = Acceptable

Explain what the difference is…please refrain from talking about illegal activity.
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DeSanto said:
I understand. You want to compare legal activity with illegal activity, avoid the question entirely and distract with a completely different subject. Let me try one more time.

Legal: One who chooses to live in poverty in order to obtain food stamps. (why, I don’t know) = Disdain

Legal: One who chooses to put their money in tax shelters in order to avoid erroneous taxes. = Acceptable

Explain what the difference is…please refrain from talking about illegal activity.
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can you define a “tax shelter”? Tax deferred investments are just that, tax DEFERMENT. you don’t get out of paying taxes, you just pay them later.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
can you define a “tax shelter”? Tax deferred investments are just that, tax DEFERMENT. you don’t get out of paying taxes, you just pay them later.
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Here, let Ryan explain…

buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/paul-ryan-cayman-islands-the-place-you-hide-your?s=mobile

and here is another clip I added earlier in thread…

wcyb.com/news/money/Offshore-havens-saved-Microsoft-7B-in-taxes-Senate-panel/-/14590736/16678378/-/acyj6iz/-/index.html

I understand there are other points to consider and I don’t necessarily disagree with everything Ryan is saying here. All I wanted was someone to admit to the well known fact that off-shore accounts are “where people hide their money”. After Ryan himself admitting it in this clip, Lisa could no longer deny the fact though she prefers the word “shelter” so, in my reply to her, I used the phrase “tax shelter” per her request.

ps…just so I don’t get any more backlash, I will once again reiterate…

NO ONE IS INSINUATING ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY HAS TAKEN PLACE.

here is another clip just for the heck of it… I know republicans are now going to try framing Obama as a liar but neither side has been real honest lately, have they?

m.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/27/999413/-Paul-Ryan-accidentally-admits-GOP-has-been-lying-about-its-budget-plan
 
DeSanto said:
Here, let Ryan explain…

buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/paul-ryan-cayman-islands-the-place-you-hide-your?s=mobile

and here is another clip I added earlier in thread…

wcyb.com/news/money/Offshore-havens-saved-Microsoft-7B-in-taxes-Senate-panel/-/14590736/16678378/-/acyj6iz/-/index.html

I understand there are other points to consider and I don’t necessarily disagree with everything Ryan is saying here. All I wanted was someone to admit to the well known fact that off-shore accounts are “where people hide their money”. After Ryan himself admitting it in this clip, Lisa could no longer deny the fact though she prefers the word “shelter” so, in my reply to her, I used the phrase “tax shelter” per her request.

ps…just so I don’t get any more backlash, I will once again reiterate…

NO ONE IS INSINUATING ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY HAS TAKEN PLACE.

here is another clip just for the heck of it… I know republicans are now going to try framing Obama as a liar but neither side has been real honest lately, have they?

m.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/27/999413/-Paul-Ryan-accidentally-admits-GOP-has-been-lying-about-its-budget-plan
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On tax shelters/tax breaks, whatever you want to call them, did you know that an
industry that receives a largess from them is the entertainment industry?? And, no,
I not going to give links to check, because I am “link-challenged” but it really makes
sense when you see so many entertainers (the very rich) who say nothing about being
taxed more. They receive huge tax breaks at the “front end” of things. Had a client
who was a producer of films who told me how they got their seed money, etc.
 
TexCatholic4JMJ said:
On tax shelters/tax breaks, whatever you want to call them, did you know that an
industry that receives a largess from them is the entertainment industry?? And, no,
I not going to give links to check, because I am “link-challenged” but it really makes
sense when you see so many entertainers (the very rich) who say nothing about being
taxed more. They receive huge tax breaks at the “front end” of things. Had a client
who was a producer of films who told me how they got their seed money, etc.
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I fail to see how this addresses my comment. The issue I would like to explore is…

What is the difference between a poor man taking advantage of the system versus a rich man who takes advantage? One receives disdain for their actions the other is applauded.
 
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