Paul Ryan Discussion

[estesbob]

Estesbob, you noted your question concerning why Romney’s tax returns should be important to anyone is a serious one, and I will attempt to give a serious response. Romney made this an issue for Democrats to pounce upon because he released only the bare minimum of tax returns, knowing full well that the precedent in modern Presidential elections has been in favor of releasing several years of tax returns, since only one or two years may not disclose sufficient information. While I admit there are more important issues on the minds of voters: jobs, the economy, the deficit, health care, foreign policy, to name a few, nonetheless we’re talking about the election of a POTUS and I believe the nature of this position demands a higher level of scrutiny. Romney has inflicted this wound upon himself by not taking the advice of many of his fellow Republicans. If he in fact has nothing to hide relative to his off-shore investments, why does he persist in refusing to compromise by releasing five years of returns, thereby putting any lingering doubts and speculation to rest? Instead, he wants us to “trust him.” I’m sorry but that’s not good enough for a potential President. As Reagan used to say regarding the Soviet Union, we should “trust and verify.” It’s that important. Further, one can be sure that if the shoe were on the other foot with regard to President Obama’s tax returns, Republicans would be screaming bloody murder.

Verify what? That he rich? That he paid people like me to make sure he paid the minimum amount of taxes possible? Or are you suggesting he has commited tax fraud?

A final word. Although many of you may know I am a partisan who (less than enthusiastically) supports Obama in the upcoming election, at the same time I make an effort to be fair and would have taken the same position if the Democrats had not released several years of their tax returns. For example, I have been critical of Obama for his HHS mandate which I feel abridges religious freedom, particularly the Catholic Church, and I have no doubt Obamacare is far from a panacea with respect to this country’s health-care challenges. I’m not completely sure (but do have some ideas) why, for some, politics must be so partisan, such a dualistic, black-and-white situation, rather than a bipartisan meeting of the minds for finding common solutions to the problems that confront us. I perceive this partisan attitude too frequently in both major political parties as well as on this Forum, and think it unfortunate.

You are critical of the HHS mandate yet will still vote for him? When he comes after the Jews will you rationalize that away also?

Politics is partisan because there are fundamental differences in how this country should be governed… In this years election there could not be a starker difference. one side believes rights come from God, the other believe they come from the Govt. One side believes in individual is supreme, the other the collective .One side supports the right to life, the other the right of women to kill their children if they are not “wanted”. One side believe homosexual behavior is a grievous sin, the other that it should be enshrined as equal to millennium old understanding of marriage and familyThere is no middle ground on these issues. We are seeing an unprecedented assault of religion. But many are willing to tolerate it as long as its not their religion being assaulted, as long as their beliefs are not being trampled

 

[estesbob]

The problem with this whole Swiss bank account thing is…who is Mitt and can we trust this guy is being honest with us. He is very shady with any details with his policies and he is very shady with any details with his net worth. He is asking for “blind trust” from America after. I decided I better get more informed before opening my big mouth. So, that’s what I did. And what I have found in within the last few days has been very interesting. It made me wonder why these certain people so well informed in this area failed to reveal the true reason why Swiss bank accounts are so attractive. He blatantly refuses to release more than one year of returns. And of that one year, he refuses to disclose more details of his net worth that makes it more difficult to see if everything really was on the up and up. Something about “Confidentiality Disclosures”. Let me add a quote from his own father, George Romney on why he showed so many years of his returns, “One year could be a fluke, perhaps done for show.” Now, i want to show you some info I have gathered on the subject of “Off Shore Accounts”…

For one, if anyone is interested in why Swiss Bank Accounts are so attractive, it is not simply because they are stable!!! They are considered tax havens because they gaurd the identities of their clients and their money. There are loopholes that skirt tax laws. Offshore finance evading taxes via tax havens.

Switzerland, Bermuda, Luxumbourg, Cayman Islands…these are jurisdictions with virtually no tax and virtually no compliance. There are confidentiality laws that will have you put in jail for even asking for information on these accounts.

Blind Trust is an interesting word I learned about. I believe there is a clip of Romney speaking out against Blind Trusts several years ago saying they’re really not “blind”. Well, I can see what he means now. His blind trust were held by his wife and personal lawyer. Hmm. There is not proof that his blind trust were blind because we have no paper work provided by him to prove anything.

These are some interesting names I encourage research on:

Bain Fund, Sankaty, Solamere, Elliot Associates.

Some more words to think about:

Hedge Fund Kingmakers, Super PAC donors, Blocker Corporations, Unrelated Business Income Tax, 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty, Switzerland’s International Tax Evasion Dispute. Tax Haven USA plan *criminial foreign money and the tax law that benefit foreign money that Americans cannot take advantage of., Leveraged Byouts, Financialization, “Feeder” tax havens.

Off Shore Tax Havens are shrouded in secrecy and lack transparency. They skip around taxes, disclosures, and regulatory requirements. This is why they are attractive.

Also, please research these investors for Romney: Robert Maxwell (very interesting story) and Eduardo Poma.

I also learned a little about “carried interest” and taxing profit share as “ordinary income”. Now the problem I have with Romney is he is a billionaire getting away with paying his fair share whether legal or not and betting against the U.S. dollar while running for president.

The fact is if your income in from work (if you work for a living) you are going to pay twice as much in income tax as someone who gets their money from wealth. And the worker also pays payroll taxes on top of that. AND…under Romney’s plan (what details we do have of it) he would actually pay even less.

I will thank you for respectful responses…I’m hear to learn and have learned much while here.

Once again it doesn’t matter what the tax rate of the country a US citizen has investments in. he is taxed in the US on that income. It appears you real problem is that Romeny has paid the minimum amount of tax as required by law. I suspect you do the same. In fact in 32 years of preparing tax returns i have not run across one single person who has asked me to make sure they owe more taxes than are due-Never. in fact I , for several years, had a radio show and i had a standard offer to do for free the tax returns for anyone who wanted to have their returns done using the rates and laws in effect before the Bush tax cuts went into effect. i never had any takers-very surprising given the number on the left who constantly whine about these tax cuts.

 

[estesbob]

I agree. People tend to diversify their investments and some of these investments may be in foreign instruments. This is common sense.

Also, when you have a system that is hostile to success and very uncertain, most everyone would keep their money offshore.

Many people have investments in foreign countries and dont even realize it. If you invest in mutual funds odds are you will find a foreign income tax credit on your 1099.

 

[estesbob]

What does putting your money in foreign bank accounts have to do with the policies one pursues to get the economy back on track and restore fiscal sanity? This whole Romney offshore banking account is just a red herring/non-issue designed to distract people from the abject failure of the Obama presidency.

Ishii

I love the allegations that he is hiding his money in Swiss bank accounts. i think “then why are we talking about them here?”

The problem is most people have little understanding of how the tax law works. When they hear “Swiss Bank Account” they think gangster. When Romeny says he paid an effective rate of 13% they think “hey I pay 15%!” Of course Romney is talking effective rate and they are talking about marginal rate. Romneys effective rate is three to four times higher than most in the middle class -especially given the fact that for nearly half the peel in this country their effective tax rate is “0”

I have notice something very encouraging since Ryan became the VP choice. The debate has shifted from the Bane nonsense and tax returns to the gutting of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. Who would have though the GOP would be the ones campaigning on Medicare.?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

When he comes after the Jews will you rationalize that away also?

Have I missed something? Who said that he is going to come after the Jews? That’s a very serious charge. Hav you any evidence of that intention of his?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Full speech Paul Ryan talks about Medicare at the Villages

therightscoop.com/10am-watch-live-paul-ryan-talk-about-medicare-at-the-villages

Better Qualified To Serve As President? 42% Say Ryan, 40% Biden

rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/august_2012/better_qualified_to_serve_as_president_42_say_ryan_40_biden

Biden has been vice pres for 4 years and Ryan has been been candidate for 1 week

 

[estesbob]

Have I missed something? Who said that he is going to come after the Jews? That’s a very serious charge. Hav you any evidence of that intention of his?

Yes He has shown a complete disregard for religiosity freedom. Perhaps next term he will have HHS forbid circumsicion. I am sure many would rationalize that way Also.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Yes He has shown a complete disregard for religiosity freedom. Perhaps next term he will have HHS forbid circumsicion. I am sure many would rationalize that way Also.

Yes, he does disregard freedom of religion, but, on point, I’d like to see some - any - evidence that the Jews have been specifically targeted.

 

[meltzerboy]

Have I missed something? Who said that he is going to come after the Jews? That’s a very serious charge. Hav you any evidence of that intention of his?

Rich, in Bob’s defense, that was not his point. I think his point is that an attack on one religion is an attack on all, and I agree with this.

 

[ishii]

I have notice something very encouraging since Ryan became the VP choice. The debate has shifted from the Bane nonsense and tax returns to the gutting of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. Who would have though the GOP would be the ones campaigning on Medicare.?

That was a very shrewd move - “political judo” as they say. Obama - because he has no positive record to campaign on - would like to keep the campaign about personal attacks on Romney. As long as the Romney/Ryan campaign can keep talking about the issues - Medicare, budget, economy, then I think they can win. If the campaign is about personal attacks then they will be at a disadvantage. One thing that is encouraging is that in spite of non-stop personal attacks/lies about Romney by the Obama team, Romney is still either tied or slightly up in the polls and competitive in the battleground states.

As for Obama “coming after the Jews” he is certainly coming after the Catholic church and religious freedom/freedom of conscience. Not a stretch to think he would challenge of freedoms as well. There are those on these forum with their head in the sand - they will only believe Obama is coming after our freedom until he actually passes the laws curtailing our freedom - then its almost too late! They need to wake up. And rather than merely not vote for Obama, they need to vote effectively against him.

Ishii

 

[Tampa_Dave]

A vote for Obama is also a vote for ultra-liberal politicians like Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, and Debbie Wassermann-Schultz. Just saying…

 

[rlg94086]

Rich, in Bob’s defense, that was not his point. I think his point is that an attack on one religion is an attack on all, and I agree with this.

We often disagree, but you are probably one of the fairest posters on CAF. I appreciate that, and I’m trying to emulate it.

 

[pete_29]

President Obama has a lot of money, is any of it in off shore accounts?

 

[estesbob]

Rich, in Bob’s defense, that was not his point. I think his point is that an attack on one religion is an attack on all, and I agree with this.

Thx.! I will admit to being very, very angry about what this mandate has done to my business and my employees. I can not understand why everyone , Left or Right have not risen up and demanded it’ recission

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Mo Dowd is an angry white female. Reading her could be a form of penance?

Father Zuhlsdorf’s answer to Sister Simone Campbell is go out and buy Father Robert Sirico’s book Defending the Free Market: A Moral Case for a Free Economy

Maureen Dowd is ultra liberal, so much so that she criticizes Obama when he strays to the center (as if that were possible).

 

[markeverett49]

The unspoken assumption of these critiques of Ryan is this: the government should act life a follower of Jesus. The problem with this is that the people making this claim so often insist on the “separation of church and state” and argue that religion is solely a private matter and never a proper rationale for the action of a secular government.

 

[DGarr]

At core, I do not understand why Mr. Romney will not release his tax returns. He is asking us to elect him to the highest office in the country.
By definition, this is a position of “Trust.”
It was Ronald Reagan who said, “Trust, but Verify.”
Re his tax returns, Mr. Romney has said, “Trust me.”
It is reasonable that 63% of American voters have asked him to “Verify” this.
Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney.
Then we can move on to other issues.

 

[estesbob]

At core, I do not understand why Mr. Romney will not release his tax returns. He is asking us to elect him to the highest office in the country.
By definition, this is a position of “Trust.”
It was Ronald Reagan who said, “Trust, but Verify.”
Re his tax returns, Mr. Romney has said, “Trust me.”
It is reasonable that 63% of American voters have asked him to “Verify” this.
Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney.
Then we can move on to other issues.

What is it about Romneys tax returns is it that we need to “verify”.

Speaking of Ronald Reagan he released only one tax return.

 

[followyourbliss]

It’s not that the “government” (our elected lawmakers) should “act like Jesus,” but it should be driven by compassion and do no harm to its citizens.

A budget that puts massive military spending, or handouts to the rich, above the needs of the old or the infirm is corrupt.

There’s no religious context there at all, except that men (and women) of good conscience (ie, the Bishops) have spoken out against the Ryan budget.

The GOP, or most Republicans, have no problem rationalizing the situation to benefit their real overlords–corporate America.

 

[rlg94086]

At core, I do not understand why Mr. Romney will not release his tax returns. He is asking us to elect him to the highest office in the country.
By definition, this is a position of “Trust.”
It was Ronald Reagan who said, “Trust, but Verify.”
Re his tax returns, Mr. Romney has said, “Trust me.”
It is reasonable that 63% of American voters have asked him to “Verify” this.
Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney.
Then we can move on to other issues.

At core, I do not understand why Mr. Obama will not release his school records. He is asking us to re-elect him to the highest office in the country.
By definition, this is a position of “Trust.”
It was Ronald Reagan who said, “Trust, but Verify.”
Re his school records, Mr. Obama has said, “Trust me.”
Release the school records, Mr. Obama.
Then we can move on to other issues