Paul Ryan Discussion

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In response to a question about his differences with Romney on exceptions to a ban on abortion, Ryan said: “Look, I’m proud of my record. … Mitt Romney is going to be the president; the president sets policy. His policy is exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. I’m comfortable with it because it’s a good step in the right direction. I’ll leave it at that.”
He declined to answer any more questions on the subject.
Democrats have highlighted Ryan’s abortion record since his selection as Romney’s vice presidential running mate, and the attention has increased since Akin’s remark Sunday that victims of “legitimate rape” rarely become pregnant. Akin, the Republican nominee for a U.S. Senate seat in Missouri, has brushed aside suggestions by Romney and a host of other Republicans that he back out of the race to preserve GOP hopes of defeating Democratic incumbent Claire McCaskill.
latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-paul-ryan-romney-abortion-differences-20120822,0,2278683.story

You can see Mr. Ryan talking with the Reporters at 19:04 (minutes / seconds) on PBS’s Newshour program (after a 30 second commercial):

video.pbs.org/video/2271440969

I’m disappointed with Mr. Ryan’s statement.

From his statement, Mr. Ryan, while serving as Vice President, isn’t going to try and change Romney’s policy on abortion which includes exceptions to allow abortions in cases of rape, incest, life of the mother.
 
From his statement, Mr. Ryan, while serving as Vice President, isn’t going to try and change Romney’s policy on abortion which includes exceptions to allow abortions in cases of rape, incest, life of the mother.
I’m waiting for comments that likely will never come. Tough to argue with…but, of course, the proportionality defense will come in.

John
 
What makes you think he won’t try to reason with Romney and the administration? He said he is comfortable because it is a step in the right direction. It’s a good starting point. You should give him the benefit of the doubt that he will try to make the next step or steps happen in whatever way he can. He is right that it is Romney’s platform and policy, but he didn’t say anything to exclude the possibility of trying to show Romney the light.
 
I think it was a good answer, what is he supposed to say? He bascially said he disagrees with the president but that his policy would lessen evil which is a good thing. Let’s face it, Romney isn’t anyones favorite. We should be happy Romney picked a solidly catholic VP. He could have picked some pro-abortion moderate.

BTW, Mormonism does allow abortion in cases of rape, inscest and serious birth defects which would likely prove fatal. He’s just being consistent with his non-christian religion.
 
I think Paul Ryan is personally taking one for the team. Unfortunately I think even people that say they’re Pro-Life have a hard time understanding that a life is a life in extreme cases. Even in cases of rape, incest, and at risk pregnancies. There is a reason why God wanted that child born into existence and to deny the babies life is so cruel and the work of the devil. It breaks my heart when people say, “It’s just a fetus.” 😦 We were all fetuses once. I don’t doubt Paul Ryan’s devotion to the Catholic Church, but I understand this is politics. I also think that he might be distancing himself from Todd Akin after the foot-in-mouth remarks he (Akin) made earlier this week. Which by the way, have been blown entirely out of proportion.
 
I’ve noticed the enjoyment you get from calling people ignorant. I understood your point just fine, sarcastic as it was. the point I would like to make is that it shouldn’t matter who appoints the justices or what their personal views are on any given subject. their decisions should be based solely on the law and interpreting it. notice the emphasis on the word “should”. im not saying this is always the case but, if a certain justice dishonors their position by favoring a certain bias view is upon that justice not the one whom appointed them. the justices should be held accountable for themselves, they are not children and the one who appoints them is not responsible for their judgments.
Hello DeSanto -

You’re missing my point entirely which is that this election between Obama and Romney could have huge repercussions as to the ideological shape of the supreme court. If you want two or three more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs, then vote for Obama. If you want more Scalias (or atleast a good chance of more Scalias) then vote for Romney/Ryan.

As for sarcasm, my apologies. I didn’t intend to convey any sarcasm whatsoever - I am being quite serious. As for calling people ignorant, what would you describe someone who doesn’t seem to care if Obama has the chance to add three more justices to the two that he already has picked? Either they are ignorant of the issue or they don’t care about the supreme court.

Finally, as to your last point, yes, supreme court justices are free to decide as they wish - the president who appointed them does not have control and there are no guarentees. However, if a pro-abortion president (Obama) picks a pro-abortion justice (Elena Kagan) then don’t be surprised if they vote to uphold Roe V Wade. The judicial philosophy is a serious issue the deserves serious discussion rather than an endless barrage of attacks on the GOP or Romney.

Ishii
 
Hello DeSanto -

You’re missing my point entirely which is that this election between Obama and Romney could have huge repercussions as to the ideological shape of the supreme court. If you want two or three more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs, then vote for Obama. If you want more Scalias (or atleast a good chance of more Scalias) then vote for Romney/Ryan.

As for sarcasm, my apologies. I didn’t intend to convey any sarcasm whatsoever - I am being quite serious. As for calling people ignorant, what would you describe someone who doesn’t seem to care if Obama has the chance to add three more justices to the two that he already has picked? Either they are ignorant of the issue or they don’t care about the supreme court.

Finally, as to your last point, yes, supreme court justices are free to decide as they wish - the president who appointed them does not have control and there are no guarentees. However, if a pro-abortion president (Obama) picks a pro-abortion justice (Elena Kagan) then don’t be surprised if they vote to uphold Roe V Wade. The judicial philosophy is a serious issue the deserves serious discussion rather than an endless barrage of attacks on the GOP or Romney.

Ishii
As a philosphical and moral hypothetical, would you support the nomination of Supreme Court Justices who would support H.R. 212, The Sanctity of Human Life Act, a bill sponsored by Republican members of the House on Jan. 7, 2011 including Rep.Akin and Rep. Ryan?
opencongress.org/bill/112-h212/text
 
Hello DeSanto -

You’re missing my point entirely which is that this election between Obama and Romney could have huge repercussions as to the ideological shape of the supreme court. ***If you want two or three more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs, then vote for Obama. If you want more Scalias (or atleast a good chance of more Scalias) then vote for Romney/Ryan. ***

As for sarcasm, my apologies. I didn’t intend to convey any sarcasm whatsoever - I am being quite serious. As for calling people ignorant, what would you describe someone who doesn’t seem to care if Obama has the chance to add three more justices to the two that he already has picked? Either they are ignorant of the issue or they don’t care about the supreme court.

Finally, as to your last point, yes, supreme court justices are free to decide as they wish - the president who appointed them does not have control and there are no guarentees. However, if a pro-abortion president (Obama) picks a pro-abortion justice (Elena Kagan) then don’t be surprised if they vote to uphold Roe V Wade. The judicial philosophy is a serious issue the deserves serious discussion rather than an endless barrage of attacks on the GOP or Romney.

Ishii
I’ll take two more like Antonin Scalia, thank you. Toss in another Clarence Thomas for good measure.
 
Hello DeSanto -

You’re missing my point entirely which is that this election between Obama and Romney could have huge repercussions as to the ideological shape of the supreme court. If you want two or three more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs, then vote for Obama. If you want more Scalias (or atleast a good chance of more Scalias) then vote for Romney/Ryan.

As for sarcasm, my apologies. I didn’t intend to convey any sarcasm whatsoever - I am being quite serious. As for calling people ignorant, what would you describe someone who doesn’t seem to care if Obama has the chance to add three more justices to the two that he already has picked? Either they are ignorant of the issue or they don’t care about the supreme court.

Finally, as to your last point, yes, supreme court justices are free to decide as they wish - the president who appointed them does not have control and there are no guarentees. However, if a pro-abortion president (Obama) picks a pro-abortion justice (Elena Kagan) then don’t be surprised if they vote to uphold Roe V Wade. The judicial philosophy is a serious issue the deserves serious discussion rather than an endless barrage of attacks on the GOP or Romney.

Ishii
As I said, I understand your point just fine. You think that the judges rule based on their ideology. Whether they do or not is up for debate but they are not supposed to. The point I’d like to convey to you is, you sound as if you don’t mind if they rule according to their personal views as long as the ones you agree with get appointed. So vote for Romney and we’ll get the “right” ideologs appointed into the supreme court. I don’t know about you but I don’t want the supreme court to be rule by ideologs. You do not give these justices the credit they deserve and just assume they decide based on their personal views.
 
If we can’t elect a good Catholic as president, elect a good Catholic for VP. I consider Biden a traitor to the faith (sorry if that seems a little harsh.)

Has anyone put together a list of all the Obama/Biden donors that got “green energy” money and have now declared bankruptcy? I’m looking for a non biased source.
The funny thing is, this thread really has nothing to do with Paul Ryan at all. Romney made a bad choice if he thought Ryan would be just the bump he needed. The bump lasted about two days. Romeny cannot hide behind Ryan.
 
I’ll take two more like Antonin Scalia, thank you. Toss in another Clarence Thomas for good measure.
see, that’s what I’m saying. why are we ok with the idea of supreme court justices ruling based on who’s “team” are they on? they should not be on any side except the side of justice. even if they decide on something I don’t agree with ie…campaign finance. I have to respect their decision was made based on the law not on their own self interest. otherwise one must come to the conclusion that there is no real justice in this land.
 
It’s not about balancing. It’s about faithfulness.

The false–indeed the deeply dishonest–assumption behind the WSJ’s argument is that anyone who dares to criticize Ryan on social justice must be a dissenter from Church teaching. In other words, a secular political framework has been imposed on Catholicism, and Catholics are required (how dare they do anything else?) to line up on one side or the other.

For a response to Ryan’s defenders, see this article (which links to a more thorough article, apparently, which I have not yet read).

How about trying to follow all the teachings of the Church on social justice, instead of claiming “my dissent isn’t as bad as your dissent”?

Edwin
 
As I said, I understand your point just fine. You think that the judges rule based on their ideology. Whether they do or not is up for debate but they are not supposed to. The point I’d like to convey to you is, you sound as if you don’t mind if they rule according to their personal views as long as the ones you agree with get appointed. So vote for Romney and we’ll get the “right” ideologs appointed into the supreme court. I don’t know about you but I don’t want the supreme court to be rule by ideologs. You do not give these justices the credit they deserve and just assume they decide based on their personal views.
How they view things is a big part of how they understand the law. Always has been and always will be.
 
As I said, I understand your point just fine. You think that the judges rule based on their ideology. Whether they do or not is up for debate but they are not supposed to. The point I’d like to convey to you is, you sound as if you don’t mind if they rule according to their personal views as long as the ones you agree with get appointed. So vote for Romney and we’ll get the “right” ideologs appointed into the supreme court. I don’t know about you but I don’t want the supreme court to be rule by ideologs. You do not give these justices the credit they deserve and just assume they decide based on their personal views.
We’re always going to have idelogs in the Supreme court. That’s just the way it is.
 
It’s not about balancing. It’s about faithfulness.

The false–indeed the deeply dishonest–assumption behind the WSJ’s argument is that anyone who dares to criticize Ryan on social justice must be a dissenter from Church teaching. In other words, a secular political framework has been imposed on Catholicism, and Catholics are required (how dare they do anything else?) to line up on one side or the other.

For a response to Ryan’s defenders, see this article (which links to a more thorough article, apparently, which I have not yet read).

How about trying to follow all the teachings of the Church on social justice, instead of claiming “my dissent isn’t as bad as your dissent”?

Edwin
I question whether that was WSJ’s underlying assumption. The way I understood the article was that Ryan’s positions are not inconsistent with Catholic social teachings and can be viewed as completely consistent with them, depending on implementation. And that’s true.

Setting up the strawman…or strawwoman…of Ayn Rand to shoot at adds nothing to a discussion of whether or not proposals or policies are consistent with Catholic teaching. Ryan isn’t Rand, and their positions are not at all the same in many ways. Politicians cite Lincoln all the time notwithstanding that Lincoln favored sending all the slaves back to Africa…a position with which his modern admirers would vehemently disagree. Some secular philosophers have cited St. Thomas Aquinas and the Schoolmen for some things while disagreeing entirely with their religious convictions.

Now, when one says “all” the teachings of the Church on social justice, one has to ask what any particular person means by saying that. One of the problems I have with understanding liberals who talk about “social justice” is that they are often short on specifics and long on slogans. What does “caring for the poor” in a governmental context really mean, for example? Does it mean “cash for clunkers”, a program for the well off? Does it mean pushing 17 million onto Medicaid? Are they going to be better off for that? Will the truly poor be better off if 17 million more people are competing with them for the “slots” providers have for Medicaid patients? Just talking about “helping the poor” gives us no answers to that. And who are “the poor”, after all, and how, exactly, are we to prefer them to those who are perhaps not really “poor”, but simply not as fortunate as the average?
 
I question whether that was WSJ’s underlying assumption.
The article notes (I presume correctly, though I haven’t checked it) that all but one of the Catholic legislators who are part of the official “Catholics for Obama” effort have a 100% rating from NARAL. That is indeed grave scandal, and McGurn has every right to point it out. However, he then seamlessly moves from this statistic to broader statements about “liberal” Catholics. The assumption at work, then, is that anyone who criticizes Ryan on grounds of social justice is a “liberal” Catholic of the sort NARAL would approve of. I know that this is simply nonsense. The folks who write at the “Catholic Moral Theology” blog to which I frequently link–several of whom are personal friends and acquaintances from graduate school–do not fit that stereotype. Using this stereotype is a way of shutting down serious debate.
The way I understood the article was that Ryan’s positions are not inconsistent with Catholic social teachings and can be viewed as completely consistent with them, depending on implementation. And that’s true.
That’s a view championed by some conservative Catholics, including at least one bishop (Mr. Ryan’s own bishop, which is certainly an important consideration for Mr. Ryan as a faithful Catholic). I do not find the arguments convincing. The piece to which I linked above makes substantive arguments showing ways in which Ryan’s policies conflict with Catholic social teaching. I don’t see Ryan’s defenders actually engaging these kinds of serious arguments. They simply repeat ad nauseam that it’s all about “implementation” and that these questions are “prudential” (a word which they pervert to mean "beyond moral/theological considerations and thus outside the purview of the bishops’ authority). The WSJ article in question explicitly makes this argument. It’s the right-wing equivalent to Cuomo’s "personally opposed but. . . . " And no, it’s simply not true that abortion is in a completely different category here from the other Catholic teachings. Or rather, it’s true only in the narrow sense that specific policy initiatives (such as Ryan’s proposals regarding Medicare) are not intrinsically wrong in the way that abortion is intrinsically wrong. Agreed. And that is not what Ryan’s critics are arguing (speaking of strawmen).
Setting up the strawman…or strawwoman…of Ayn Rand to shoot at adds nothing to a discussion of whether or not proposals or policies are consistent with Catholic teaching.
It’s not a “straw woman” at all, when you can point to ways in which Rand’s ideas are reflected in Ryan’s thinking, and when Ryan has a track record, over years, of expressing enthusiastic and unqualified admiration for Rand with regard to economic/social policy.

Sure, some left-wing commentators (mostly on MSNBC) have said silly things, implying that simply the fact that Rand was a Jewish atheist means that a conservative Catholic like Ryan is somehow hypocritical for admiring aspects of her work. But there’s a substantive case here–and, again, it’s a case that Ryan’s defenders have not answered effectively. Instead, they distract by straw men of their own, claiming that Ryan’s being pilloried simply for reading Rand, or pointing to Aquinas’s use of Aristotle as a parallel.

The problem is that Rand’s rejection of charity and the common good is central to the specific aspects of her thought for which Ryan has expressed admiration, and that Ryan’s policies then match those specific elements.

The WSJ further perpetuates the noxious falsehood that “charity” can’t be a matter of legislation (this is in the earlier piece by Davies and Antolin). That’s not Catholic teaching, as far as I know, at all. It’s utter nonsense. Of course the state can and should require people to act charitably when such charitable action is needed for the common good.
Ryan isn’t Rand, and their positions are not at all the same in many ways.
Fine. So point to the specific differences that are relevant here, as Ryan’s critics have pointed to the specific similarities.

No one claims that Ryan admires every aspect of Rand’s thought. The problem is in the specifics, which is why Ryan and his defenders avoid the specifics.
Now, when one says “all” the teachings of the Church on social justice, one has to ask what any particular person means by saying that.
Again, read the piece I linked to, which gives specific citations from specific encyclicals and other Church documents.
One of the problems I have with understanding liberals who talk about “social justice” is that they are often short on specifics and long on slogans.
The point made in Dave’s article is that Ryan doesn’t have any specifics for what caring for the poor means. Of course we can debate the value of specific policy proposals. But his critics have said: "look, your plan reduces benefits for the poor, adds tax cuts for the wealthy, and doesn’t actually produce fiscal responsibility because the tax cuts are greater than the spending cuts. . . . "

All the specifics I’ve seen have been on the “liberal” side. Ryan simply seems to be acting out of faith–faith that if you reduce government spending on the poor and instead give the rich a breather, they will invest to create jobs and private/local initiatives will do whatever is necessary to take care of the poor.

Edwin
 
OK, I’ve now read Michael Sean Winters’ excellent article (to which Dave’s article on the CMT blog linked), and I recommend it highly. (And please, let’s not have guilt-by-association about how he can’t be worth reading if he writes for the NCR. If you have actual evidence that Mr. Winters’ claim to submit to the teaching of the Church is false, then present it.)

Edwin
 
We’re always going to have idelogs in the Supreme court. That’s just the way it is.
That may be so, but I don’t think it is justifiable to say, let’s vote for a guy who will put ideologues in the court, we need more ideologues, I like the ideologues that agree with me, and I don’t like the other ones. What is going on. Sometimes I think this entire country has lost it’s mind.
 
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