Paul Ryan Discussion

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Obama/Clinton team: Fighting for the agenda of NARAL and HHS mandate. what catholic can in good conscience support that? What about Biden?
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Always have to go with that don’t you?

Guess this political conversation is over.

John
 
oldcelt said:
Always have to go with that don’t you?

Guess this political conversation is over.

John
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Hey, the truth hurts - sorry you don’t want to confront it. In a Catholic forum where we deal with the issues that are important from a catholic perspective, should it be surprising that we bring up the sanctity of life and freedom of conscience? But there are a multitude of other reasons to not vote for Obama/Biden. I choose to bring up the obvious reasons for catholic in the hopes of waking them up.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Hey, the truth hurts - sorry you don’t want to confront it. In a Catholic forum where we deal with the issues that are important from a catholic perspective, should it be surprising that we bring up the sanctity of life and freedom of conscience? But there are a multitude of other reasons to not vote for Obama/Biden. I choose to bring up the obvious reasons for catholic in the hopes of waking them up.

Ishii
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👍👍

Keep on keeping on
 
“That money [Obama stimulus] wasn’t just spent and wasted. It was borrowed, spent and wasted.” - Paul Ryan
 
Hey, the truth hurts - sorry you don’t want to confront it. In a Catholic forum where we deal with the issues that are important from a catholic perspective, should it be surprising that we bring up the sanctity of life and freedom of conscience? But there are a multitude of other reasons to not vote for Obama/Biden. I choose to bring up the obvious reasons for catholic in the hopes of waking them up.
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Which translates…Hey, I’m losing, let’s bring up a new subject.

John
 
LisaA said:
Futher Ryan is incredibly LIKEABLE. He comes off as like a 40 year old boy scout, clean thrifty brave reverant…wonderful family, beautiful wife and children with 1000 watt smiles. These are happy warriors. Compare this to Obama with his sniping, arrogant attitude, snarkines and abysmal record.
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And Obama doesn’t have a “beautiful wife and children”? And, if Ryan and Obama were married to “ugly” women, should that be held against either man?
Add “Chains You Can Believe In” Joe Biden with his glowering presence, screaming and pounding his fist on the podium.
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Surprised you didn’t comment on what sort of a family man Biden was and is.
 
oldcelt said:
Which translates…Hey, I’m losing, let’s bring up a new subject.

John
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I thought the “I’m losing” occurred, when you posted “guess this political conversation is over” in response to a comment about NARAL and the HHS mandate. You ran away in three differen threads last night and ended up looking like a kid who th. rows the game board and all it’s pieces in the air when he is losing a game.
 
LisaA said:
Add** “Chains You Can Believe In”** Joe Biden with his glowering presence, screaming and pounding his fist on the podium. Obama seems to have forgotten that “HOPE” was his slogan…he seems to have lost it.
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:rotfl::rotfl:

Good one.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Given Obama’s deserved reputation as an orator, that’s saying a lot!
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👍

I think Ryan’s great with words, numbers, and passion. I’ve been watching him for a few years and he always appeared to me as a skinny bookish nerd who is good at analyzing numbers.
 
estesbob said:
So if the unborn is not human what is it? A Tomato? Who determines what human life deserves protection and what does not? Why should ANYONE have that right???
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The question is: does something being human automatically make it a person? Again, on the face of it, you are capable of noticing that a collection of human skin cells, by themselves, are not a person. You can notice that a leg, or an arm, is not a person, even though there are plenty of human cells in them. Someone can even lose their legs and their arms and they could still be a person. Why? Obviously, there is something else that makes us into a person, and it seems like it is our minds. As long as the mind is there, there is a person there. This is why people are taken off life-support if brain-dead.

Now, in the early stages of pregnancy, the embryo does not have a brain, so we can presume that there is no person there to kill.
LisaA said:
Wow that’s a grand stretch. So you presume reading Ayn Rand makes me feel good about being selfish and self righteous?
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I do. After all, it is the central message. Be selfish and feel self-righteous about it. Still, the most important problem is the bad arguments.
LisaA said:
As to your worship of the opinions of “academics,” having been raised by them and spending my life as a faculty brat I am not the slightest bit impressed by alphabet soup following someone’s name.
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Sure. Anti-intellectuliasm rears its ugly head again.
LisaA said:
With respect to my appreciation of Ayn Rand’s books, remember these are fiction but I think contain some real truths. One of them is that Rand understands human nature.
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What is human nature then?
LisaA said:
Most Leftists are woefully out of touch with reality on that score. They base their approach to societal problems on intentions, not results. Rand’s premise is that if you reward bad behavior, you get more of it. Our many perhaps well intentioned progams reward bad behavior…thus they fail.
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They fail. Ok. Let’s look at the evidence. I will give absolute poverty rates (1960-1991) (40% of U.S. Median household income) pre-welfare and post-welfare (relative poverty rates are similar):

Sweden: 23.7 to 5.8, Norway: 9.2 to 1.7, Netherlands: 22.1 to 7.3, Finland: 11.9 to 3.7, Denmark: 26.4 to 5.9, Germany: 15.2 to 4.3, Switzerland: 12.5 to 3.8, Canada: 22.5 to 6.5, France: 36.1 to 9.8, Belgium: 26.8 to 6.0, Australia: 23.3 to 11.9, United Kingdom: 16.8 to 8.7, United States: 21.0 to 11.7, Italy: 30.7 to 14.3

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare%27s_effect_on_poverty

You can also notice that the welfare states consistently perform at the top of every socioeconomic index that matters. Denmark has the highest welfare expenditure as GDP per capita, and has consistently been performing at the top of the newly developed indexes on happiness and well-being. Norway, with a similar, and perhaps even more generous system, has been topping both the HDI-index and the inequality adjusted HDI-index (which is probably more relevant to people’s well-being) for 9 out of the last 11 years, only beaten out by Iceland for two of those years (another generous welfare state).
LisaA said:
I no longer wonder why we have generational welfare, a majority of minority babies born to single women. We reward that behavior and it increases. Do the math.
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I just did. But you are right. Even if it improves poverty rates, there are issues with welfare, and supporters will acknowledge this. They know very well that people are influenced by their environment. Conservatives love to say that liberals blame the environment for the misfortunes of individuals, when they want to be self-rightheous and blame individuals instead.

But what is the answer? You can try to improve welfare, but if you take it away, you lose the positive effects, which I have already alluded to with the numbers on poverty.
LisaA said:
And that line of reasoning would justify killing people who are in (perhaps) temporary comas or who have severe mental impairments or dementia.
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It could justify killing people in permanent comas, which we do already. Temporary? To much like sleeping. When it comes to mental impairments and dementia, it would depend on what we can reasonably conclude about their mental states. Even the mentally impaired and demented have mental states, and it can be difficult to judge the kinds of mental states they are capable of, so I don’t see this argument justifiying killing these people. But in reality, people with severe dementia and other severe impairments are sometimes allowed to die.
LisaA said:
There is no line of argument to promote abortion that doesn’t fall on its face when applied consistently to other human beings who are dependent, challenged, or physically disabled. We are more than brains with legs Persuader.
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So you have looked into it then? I don’t think there is a person without a mind. I do think that the brain seats our mind. So when the brain is destroyed or haven’t developed yet, there is no person with a mind. This is pretty basic stuff, I would think.
 
LisaA said:
So far so good John. I’ve had the advantage of hearing from and learning a lot about Paul Ryan long before he was appointed to this ticket. He is a MASTER at communicating complicated economic issues so that they are understandable to the average person. He and Marco Rubio are two of the best at communication and after eight years of GWB (love the man but what a poor speaker) it is a blessed relief.

Futher Ryan is incredibly LIKEABLE. He comes off as like a 40 year old boy scout, clean thrifty brave reverant…wonderful family, beautiful wife and children with 1000 watt smiles. These are happy warriors. Compare this to Obama with his sniping, arrogant attitude, snarkines and abysmal record. Add “Chains You Can Believe In” Joe Biden with his glowering presence, screaming and pounding his fist on the podium. Obama seems to have forgotten that “HOPE” was his slogan…he seems to have lost it.

Tonight his 80 year old mother happened to be on the jumbotron with a grandchild cuddled in her lap…PRICELESS. It’s going to be difficult to portray Paul Ryan as throwing his mother off the cliff.

Also getting a laugh out the Dems claiming Romney as ‘an extremist’ Talk about a difficult sell…

Lisa
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Lisa,you are invaluable to this forum in articulating the conservative platform,in a way that at least speaking for myself am unable to do:thumbsup:
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
And Obama doesn’t have a “beautiful wife and children”? And, if Ryan and Obama were married to “ugly” women, should that be held against either man?

Surprised you didn’t comment on what sort of a family man Biden was and is.
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Rich,God bless you,but does evey comment posted by a conservative have to be responded to in such a lawyerly fashion?:rolleyes:
 
qui_est_ce said:
he always appeared to me as a skinny bookish nerd who is good at analyzing numbers.
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Liza:
clean thrifty brave reverent
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I can see that you two have different tastes in men given how differently you view Ryan. 😃
 
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