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DeSanto
Guest
the problem is, we are moving past the oil age and some refuse to admit it.
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scipio337
Guest
I don’t think they’re non-biased. The Billions taken from Medicare was called “not true” because it didn’t agree with the “robbed” verb, although funds are certainly being moved away from taht program.
CNN ruled the whole GM story “not true”, because they didn’t consider this a “promise”:
cnn.com/2012/08/30/politics/pol-fact-check-ryan-gm/index.html
Oh, and because it really stayed open a little more than a year, as opposed to the “less than a year” Ryan claim.
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DeSanto
Guest
I was speaking of his pro-choice past record so…
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estesbob
Guest
We are moving into the Natural Gas stage, thanks to fracking technology.
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DeSanto
Guest
Forgive me for the assumption. What I mean is some are going on Romney’s word that he is pro-life although his record refutes that.
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LisaA
Guest
Spare me. The increase in drilling is on PRIVATE LAND, something Obama doesn’t control thank heavens. Further many of the wells coming on now were a result of permits granted during the Bush administration.
The theory that Obama has increased the domestic production of oil is simply laughable.
Lisa
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rlg94086
Guest
Only for people who either don’t study his record and/or require perfection in a pro-life candidate. He has a good pro-life record as governor.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Yup. He never signed 1 pro-abortion bill as governor.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Lisa, could you speak to this?
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DeSanto
Guest
Fracking is a new technology and I feel, quite frankly, should be considered with extreme precaution. There are some very scary reports on the use of Fracking that should not be ignored. It could prove to be very detrimental to our environment and should not be pushed through unregulated. I am for researching and possibly including fracking with very careful precautions as “part” of an overall energy policy. I think solar and wind and other technologies as well as fracking should all be considered as an overall package. Oil and coal on the other hand I don’t see as a promising prospect for the future of our country or the globe. Also, getting off oil is a great way to get out from under the thumb of some of these foreign entities who are not looking out for our best interest.
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DeSanto
Guest
Don’t bother. I am aware of her opinion on this matter. I was just referring to a fact check website and this was not a conversation aimed at you or Lisa.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You know about her conversion story?
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/30/obama-could-not-have-saved-janesville-gm-plant-it-closed-before-he-took-office/
Last night Paul Ryan said that Obama failed to save a GM plant in Janesville, Wis. Many outlets — including Wonkblog — said that was a lie. But some conservatives have tried to salvage the claim. Jonathan Adler of the National Review asks, “What was ‘false’ in Ryan’s statement? Was Janesvile ‘about to lose’ the factory at the time of the election? Yes. Did Obama fail to prevent this as he had promised? Yes.”
Let’s break down, then, the exact chronology of the Janesville plant closing; Conn Carroll of the Washington Examiner has helpfully posted one here, which I add to below. The basic takeaway, however, is this: by December 2008, the plant had reached a point of no return where the plant would be shut down regardless of federal action. Ryan was faulting Obama for an that was event that was inevitable over a month before he took office.
February 2008: At a campaign stop in Janesville, Obama says, ”I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” As Politifact writes, “That’s a statement of belief that, with government help, the Janesville plant could remain open — but not a promise to keep it open.”
June 3, 2008 – GM decides to close the Janesville plant, announcing that production will end by 2010, after months of rumors it might close. The press release declares, “Janesville, Wisconsin, will cease production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009, and of the Tahoe, Suburban and Yukon in 2010, or sooner.” Senators Herb Kohl and Russ Feingold, both Democrats, and Paul Ryan, whose House district includes Janesville, write the company urging it to reverse the decision.
September 2008 – Paul Ryan flies to Detroit to urge GM to reconsider its decision to close the plant. According to the Los Angeles Times, he pitched “a $224-million proposal that included roughly $50 million in state enterprise zone tax credits, local government grants worth $22 million and major contract concessions from the United Auto Workers union local.” Throughout, Ryan frequently speaks with GM chief Rick Wagoner.
Oct. 11, 2008 – Barack Obama comments on the Janesville closing. He does not promise to prevent the closing-in-progress, but instead declares he will “retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville” (emphasis mine) as president. Regardless of one’s views of the auto bailout, it has saved facilities like the Janesville one, if not the Janesville one in particular.
November/December 2008 – Congress weighs a bailout of GM and other automakers. One proposal, backed by Ryan and 31 other House Republicans, but not Mitt Romney, would have provided $15 billion in bridge loans. The bill passed the house but was not picked up by the Senate. The Bush administration declines to use TARP funds to rescue automakers, but approves a bridge loan on Dec.19, too late to save the Janesville plant.
Dec. 23, 2008 – Lacking a bailout, the plant closes. The plant holds a “final goodbye ceremony” as it builds its last SUV. In a statement to MSNBC, GM confirmed that the plant “was idled” in December. But — and this is where it gets confusing — winding down a plant takes time.
April 21, 2009 – The Janesville plant builds its last medium-duty truck and shuts down its last assembly line, completing the shutdown process started in June 2008.
In short, the Janesville shutdown commenced in June 2008. Once it was clear that aid wasn’t forthcoming in November, actual assembly lines were being shut down by December. It is true that Paul Ryan tried to get the Obama administration to save another plant, in Kenosha, which the Obama administration failed to do. Attacking Obama for that is fair. But hitting him for Janesville is dishonest. The first assembly line stopped rolling in December 2008. Workers unfurled banners declaring the “Last Vehicles Off the Janesville Line” at a “final goodbye ceremony,” The plant was closing regardless of what Obama did.
This is a very strange dispute, in a way. Mitt Romney wrote an op-ed in the New York Times under the title “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and now his campaign is trying hard to fault Obama for not bailing out automakers aggressively enough. Not only that, but after the campaign’s repeated denunciation of the Obama administration for “picking winners,” Ryan is faulting Obama for not “picking a winner” not just among companies, but among plants. He’s attacking Obama for not using the government to micromanage GM’s affairs.
boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/08/16/ryan/WEMawbCVyVTq2qi0pyBheK/story.html
WASHINGTON _ After seeking millions of dollars from a federal stimulus program he opposed, Republican vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan repeatedly denied lobbying the Obama administration for home state aid – first on a Boston radio station in 2010 and then again on Tuesday in an interview with a Ohio television station.
On October 28, 2010, after the Wisconsin Republican penned at least five letters to two federal departments seeking grants under the Obama administration’s economic recovery package, Ryan responded to a caller on WBZ’s Nightside with Dan Rea who asked if he sought any of the money.
Ryan said that he would not vote against something “then write to the government to ask them to send us money.”
“I did not request any stimulus money,” he continued.
Meanwhile, in an interview yesterday with an Ohio television station, Ryan repeated the denial, before quickly adding “I don’t recall.”
You were saying?
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oldcelt
Guest
Actually, hydraulic fracturing has been used for decades. Prior to that they used explosives like nitroglycerin to fracture the rock The new technology is the horizontal drilling that makes harvesting from formations like the Marcellus and Utica profitable.
John
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DeSanto
Guest
A fairly unfamiliar term to me. You are correct. I am researching more on the subject but, I do recall some documentaries in the past to the effect of uhhh…flammable water.
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oldcelt
Guest
There are and have been cases of that. Some are potentially fracking related, while others are the result of natural methane seepage.
My opinion, and it is only that, is that if companies are required to line the wells to a level of several hundred feet, there should be few problems as that would place them well below ground water levels in this area.
A greater concern, IMHO is erosion and silting from the huge pad sites and the access roads.
John
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Democrat Sen Ron Wyden
Preserving the Medicare Guarantee: Why I’ve Been Working with Paul Ryan
huffingtonpost.com/sen-ron-wyden/preserving-the-medicare-g_b_1365237.html
Preserving the Medicare Guarantee: Why I’ve Been Working with Paul Ryan
huffingtonpost.com/sen-ron-wyden/preserving-the-medicare-g_b_1365237.html
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ProVobis
Guest
Under Bush, oil prices went from $20/barrel to $147/barrel and then crashed in 2008 as did the entire banking industry as well as AIG, housing, GE, everything. And it’s this administration’s energy policy which you’re blaming?
If there’s anything I’d like to blame, it’s this Japan-style low interest rate and liquity trap environment which stifles growth.
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DeSanto
Guest
Yes, I understand that. But, everyone is so bent on blaming everything on Obama no matter what he inherited, so why not give him that? anyway, the point was that it’s not enough and we have to get off oil. Drill baby, drill is a fail!
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