Paul Ryan Discussion

[SeekNFind]

Since when is a letter of recommendation a request for funds?

The point is, he didn’t have a problem with it in 2010.

 

[SamH]

The point is, he didn’t have a problem with it in 2010.

A problem with “what”?

 

[mary_bobo]

I remember Florida 2000. I remember feeling the election was rigged. I also am very suspicious of the sudden concern for voter fraud that seems to be a desparate act to prevent a fair election considering only republicans are behind this farce and the obvious fact that these new laws are aimed at keeping down the percentage of likely democratic voters. In any case, I appreciate you taking the time to read the article and I understand and respect your passion to end abortion in this country. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I lived in Florida and it was a mess, but I don’t think you can honestly say that the election was rigged if you consider all the facts. First of all, states are the ones who set the time-table and the manner of how elections will be run, not the feds. There was a certain schedule of when elections should be certified in Florida and that was carried out as scheduled. I think the biggest problem came when the MSM saw fit to call the election while the polls were still open. Surely they realized that Florida is in two time zones and that while polls were closed in the biggest part of the state, they were still open in the panhandle. Next mistake was Gore asking for a recount in only certain counties, those favorable to Dems. And the issue of the butterfly ballots falls on deaf ears with me because that state used those ballots for years and had never had a problem until 2000.

After all was said and done, various news media went down and did recount after recount and each time, Bush won. And then there was the little issue of Jessie Jackson and his cadre’ coming down in busses and calling people alerting them that they might have voted wrong because of the butterfly ballots.

You may not like the system we have in this country, but I think it is unfair to call that election rigged.

 

[Dawnia]

Since that congressman was writing a recommendation for a grant (cash) application, what would you call it?

John

Under that reasoning, every professor who writes a letter of application for entrance into graduate school is requesting to get into graduate school, as opposed to recommending someone for graduate school

…bet his wasn’t the only one attached to that grant application.

 

[Dawnia]

The point is, he didn’t have a problem with it in 2010.

And you know this how? Politicians can still follow the law and complain at the same time. I think it might be a job requirement

I haven’t heard anything about Obama donating any of his millions to the government…although he likes to complain about all those cheap greedy rich people who don’t pay enough in taxes (him being one of them).

 

[DeSanto]

I lived in Florida and it was a mess, but I don’t think you can honestly say that the election was rigged if you consider all the facts. First of all, states are the ones who set the time-table and the manner of how elections will be run, not the feds. There was a certain schedule of when elections should be certified in Florida and that was carried out as scheduled. I think the biggest problem came when the MSM saw fit to call the election while the polls were still open. Surely they realized that Florida is in two time zones and that while polls were closed in the biggest part of the state, they were still open in the panhandle. Next mistake was Gore asking for a recount in only certain counties, those favorable to Dems. And the issue of the butterfly ballots falls on deaf ears with me because that state used those ballots for years and had never had a problem until 2000.

After all was said and done, various news media went down and did recount after recount and each time, Bush won. And then there was the little issue of Jessie Jackson and his cadre’ coming down in busses and calling people alerting them that they might have voted wrong because of the butterfly ballots.

You may not like the system we have in this country, but I think it is unfair to call that election rigged.

I said I remember feeling it may have been rigged. It raised concern. The point being where was the concern to reform voting laws then? Why now, right before an election? It’s obvious who’s vote will be effected by these new laws. Do you really see that as a coincidence? Like I said, it’s the timing of it all that raises my suspicions. And I am concerned legally elligable voters will be turned away this year due to these “new” laws.

 

[DeSanto]

You missed the Help America Vote Act (2002)?

Voter reform has been a bit issue since the 2000 election. Its only during election time that it becomes a partisan issue. (Democrat) PA gov Ed Rendell had a voter reform task force from 2004-2011, and one of the recommendations was voter ID reform.

The PA voter ID law is from 2010. It’s now making it’s way through the courts. The Federal governernment dragged its feet in assisting FL with its voter purge, which began in 2011.

These laws are both well over a year old, and Democrats are bringing it up now as a scare tactic. There is no “timing” issue, at all, unless you have a reason to let voter fraud continue.

So you don’t think elligable voters will be turned away at the voting booths due to these new laws being enacted just months before an election. What about that guy caught on tape

(Mike Turzai - mobile.philly.com/video/?wss=/philly/video&id=166262606 )

checking off his check list things to do to get Romney elected? Voter ID, check! This stuff does not concern you? Of course Dems are going to expose this guy, why wouldn’t they? Again, this is in PA where there are zero instances of voter fraud! You don’t think this hurts disinfrancised voters? The only reason to not be concerned about laws that will suppress legal voters is, if your concern is losing an election if you don’t suppress these votes. Once again, I am for identification when voting. Not for changing the laws right before an election that will certainly effect the voter turn out. People that are used to showing student ID may not be aware of these changes. People who have trouble getting birth certificates from out of state in time to vote, elderly, disabled, people who dont have a permanent address, people who live in rural areas, people who dont drive, people who can’t afford it. What about these people? They do not have a right to vote?

 

[scipio337]

I said I remember feeling it may have been rigged. It raised concern. The point being where was the concern to reform voting laws then? Why now, right before an election? It’s obvious who’s vote will be effected by these new laws. Do you really see that as a coincidence? Like I said, it’s the timing of it all that raises my suspicions. And I am concerned legally elligable voters will be turned away this year due to these “new” laws.

As I’ve pointed out, there was major federal reform in 2002 as a direct response to the 2000 election, and states followed suit.

The issues you raise are NOT “right before an election”.

The PA law is from 2010 (2 full years + "right before an election))

The FL voter purge started in Feb 2011 (1 full year + “right before an election”).

There is no timing conflict. Its imaginary and a talking point to deflect from the actual issue to be addressed.

If you consider 1 and 2 years “right before an election” and suspicious, please let me know what type of timeframe would be acceptable for voter reform, and please include mid-term elections in your calculations.

 

[scipio337]

If you want to go even further back, De santo, there was a 2005 (3 years before 2008 election, but only 1 year before the 2006 mid term election) Indiana voter ID law that was decided by the Supreme Court in 2008:

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board

This isn’t an issue “just now”, by any stretch of the imagination, just partisan posturing.

 

[estesbob]

Can someone explain this latest allegation about Ryan and why I should trust him:

Exclusive: Paul Ryan Quietly Requested Obamacare Cash

Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan is barnstorming the country, promising to repeal every provision of the Affordable Care Act if the Romney-Ryan ticket is elected. But a letter he wrote to the Obama administration may undermine this message.

On December 10, 2010, Ryan penned a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services to recommend a grant application for the Kenosha Community Health Center, Inc to develop a new facility in Racine, Wisconsin, an area within Ryan’s district. “The proposed new facility, the Belle City Neighborhood Health Center, will serve both the preventative and comprehensive primary health care needs of thousands of new patients of all ages who are currently without health care,” Ryan wrote.

thenation.com/blog/169757/exclusive-paul-ryan-quietly-requested-obamacare-cash

Are Democrats who voted against the Bush tax cuts filing their tax returns using the rates that were in effect before the cuts or are they to be considered hypocrites if they dont?

 

[DeSanto]

As I’ve pointed out, there was major federal reform in 2002 as a direct response to the 2000 election, and states followed suit.

This was in no way the same thing. This was to update voting equipment, information, and update registration data bases. This was not an attemp to get someone elected.

The restrictions are extreme and some of these law dont even make sense. To say no, you can’t vote after church anymore is somehow protecting voter fraud, come on!

 

[DeSanto]

If you want to go even further back, De santo, there was a 2005 (3 years before 2008 election, but only 1 year before the 2006 mid term election) Indiana voter ID law that was decided by the Supreme Court in 2008:

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board

This isn’t an issue “just now”, by any stretch of the imagination, just partisan posturing.

Yes. Enacted in plenty of time for one to obtain the proper identification. Who knows how many voters were turned away. Me, I live in KY. We know we have to have IDs to vote, there’s nothing being sprung upon us, no changes…that I know of

 

[DeSanto]

If you want to go even further back, De santo, there was a 2005 (3 years before 2008 election, but only 1 year before the 2006 mid term election) Indiana voter ID law that was decided by the Supreme Court in 2008:

Crawford v. Marion County Election Board

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board

This isn’t an issue “just now”, by any stretch of the imagination, just partisan posturing.

Oh by the way, these were ID cards not licenses and they were FREE! Also, the supreme court majority conceded that this was motivated by the Republican Party’s partisan interest in reducing voter turn out and that there was no sufficient evidence of voter fraud.

 

[scipio337]

The restrictions are extreme and some of these law dont even make sense. To say no, you can’t vote after church anymore is somehow protecting voter fraud, come on!

Why did you change the argument from “The timing is off” to “They are extreme”?

I’m not aware of the after church voting issue, perhaps you can enlighten me.

I think you’re missing the point on the timing. The PA law was passed in 2010. It is going in to effect now due to the court challenges.

The Indiana law in Marion v was passed in 2005, but didn’t go into effect until after the Supreme Court decision in January of 2008 (only 10 months before the 2008 presidential elections):

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aeYa9wwihWs0

My point is, given mid term elections every 2 years and court challenges, if we use the “timing” principal, there never would be a good time for voting reforms.

 

[scipio337]

Oh by the way, these were ID cards not licenses and they were FREE!

The PA law isn’t exclusive to driver’s licenses:

The law requires a photo ID, including many government employee photo IDs, student IDs from colleges and universities in Pennsylvania and IDs for people who live in elder-care institutions in the state, as long as they show a name, photo and expiration date that makes them current.

Voters who do not possess these forms of identification can obtain photo IDs through the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, (for free!)

pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/03/challenges_loom_for_pennsylvan.html

 

[mary_bobo]

I said I remember feeling it may have been rigged. It raised concern. The point being where was the concern to reform voting laws then? Why now, right before an election? It’s obvious who’s vote will be effected by these new laws. Do you really see that as a coincidence? Like I said, it’s the timing of it all that raises my suspicions. And I am concerned legally elligable voters will be turned away this year due to these “new” laws.

DeSanto, many of these laws are not new. And some states have had voter ID laws in place for several years. I don’t think it will keep anyone from voting. And it certainly should not keep Dems from voting as in many places the majority of voters are Dems. Perhaps you are thinking about all the elections on a local level that happen every year that most of us never hear about. They call for photo ID as well. I think it sad to assume that voters are too ignorant to avail themselves of all the opportunities there are to get photo IDs, most all of them for free. The idea of photo IDs is not new and was instituted in order to hopefully cure some of the voter irregularities that have been found in past elections.

 

[DeSanto]

Why did you change the argument from “The timing is off” to “They are extreme”?

Not trying to change the subject, expanding it maybe. It is obvious to me what is going on, and I hardly think you honestly dont believe this is an attempt to suppress voter turn out. As I stated earlier, the Supreme Court even acknowledged it in the Indiana cases you pointed out.

I see your point. Court cases should not be determined based on when the next election is. I agree. Now, will you agree the facts show, only republicans are pushing these laws in an attempt to suppress voter turn out and that the cases of voter fraud does not constitute these actions.

 

[DeSanto]

DeSanto, many of these laws are not new. And some states have had voter ID laws in place for several years. I don’t think it will keep anyone from voting. And it certainly should not keep Dems from voting as in many places the majority of voters are Dems. Perhaps you are thinking about all the elections on a local level that happen every year that most of us never hear about. They call for photo ID as well. I think it sad to assume that voters are too ignorant to avail themselves of all the opportunities there are to get photo IDs, most all of them for free. The idea of photo IDs is not new and was instituted in order to hopefully cure some of the voter irregularities that have been found in past elections.

I understand what you are saying but, this is not just some innocent “let’s update our voting procedures”. This is an obvious attempt at voter suppression made entirely by republicans which seems to me very desparate and not very confident on their positions to have to resort to these type of tactics which I feel is borderline unconstitutional.

 

[DeSanto]

The PA law isn’t exclusive to driver’s licenses:

Why are you changing the subject? I was responding to your comment of the Indiana case.

Please, just say it. There are no cases of voter fraud in PA. This is not an attemp to prevent voter fraud. Just admit it.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I see your point. Court cases should not be determined based on when the next election is. I agree. Now, will you agree the facts show, only republicans are pushing these laws in an attempt to suppress voter turn out and that the cases of voter fraud does not constitute these actions.

He already posted one example…