Paul Ryan Discussion

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DeSanto said:
I see your point. Court cases should not be determined based on when the next election is. I agree. Now, will you agree the facts show, only republicans are pushing these laws in an attempt to suppress voter turn out and that the cases of voter fraud does not constitute these actions.
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:eek:

How on earth did we get to that conclusion??

The facts show that voter turnout isn’t hurt by voter ID laws, so the whole argument is moot.
 
scipio337 said:
:eek:

How on earth did we get to that conclusion??

The facts show that voter turnout isn’t hurt by voter ID laws, so the whole argument is moot.
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We shall see. These newer laws are reaching towards futher restrictions, early voting restrictions for example. I’m not so sure the argument is moot, but the argument is deffinately pointless. Btw, you never did admit to the zero evidence of voter fraud in PA…interesting.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
He already posted one example…
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Not sure what you’re referring to. I also posted several examples. Republicans are the only ones pushing for these new restrictions. Most just happen to be in battleground states. They are obviously aimed at lower-income, minority voters. The clip I provided of Mike Turzai admitting voter ID is a tactic to get Romney elected. And, the fact that the instances of true voter fraud is practically non-exsistant and is actually Non-exsistant in PA. why can’t we just admit these facts and move on?
 
DeSanto said:
Please, just say it. There are no cases of voter fraud in PA. This is not an attemp to prevent voter fraud. Just admit it.
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Maybe a preventive measure based on voter fraud in OTHER states? No, I doubt it. PA is a swing state in this election, with a lot of elderly Democratic voters: there’s your answer.
 
DeSanto said:
I said I remember feeling it may have been rigged. It raised concern. The point being where was the concern to reform voting laws then? Why now, right before an election? It’s obvious who’s vote will be effected by these new laws. Do you really see that as a coincidence? Like I said, it’s the timing of it all that raises my suspicions. And I am concerned legally elligable voters will be turned away this year due to these “new” laws.
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DeSanto - what’s the big deal about having to show an ID in order to vote? We have to do it to board a jet. We have to do it routinely. Why not voting? What do the voters have to hide? I live in a state that would have Dino Rossi as governor if there had been more guidelines to make sure only those who were eligible voted. As it was, the Democrat lost. Demanded a recount. Lost the recount. Then demanded a second “recount”. She “won” then. Complete fraud. How about reports of felons or illegal aliens voting? California and Washington have scores of illegal aliens. Prove you’re who you say you are. Then vote.

Ishii
 
DeSanto said:
I understand what you are saying but, this is not just some innocent “let’s update our voting procedures”. This is an obvious attempt at voter suppression made entirely by republicans which seems to me very desparate and not very confident on their positions to have to resort to these type of tactics which I feel is borderline unconstitutional.
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I give up. Others have shown that this is not a new movement. You have chosen to believe otherwise. So be it. And as far as it being unconstitutional to require ID to vote, recent court rulings have said otherwise. I am sorry that you have chosen to believe whoever it is that is feeding you this information, but the actual facts fly in the face of this. Be well.
 
DeSanto said:
I understand what you are saying but, this is not just some innocent “let’s update our voting procedures”. This is an obvious attempt at voter suppression made entirely by republicans which seems to me very desparate and not very confident on their positions to have to resort to these type of tactics which I feel is borderline unconstitutional.
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  1. It isn’t even close to unconstitutional. The USSC has ruled on it, and unless you believe having to show ID to buy a gun is unconstitutional, you’re being bit inconsistent. There are no documented cases of “gun buyer fraud,” but that didn’t stop IDs from being required. Why?
  2. Do you have any proof it is an attempt at voter suppression? You can’t keep making these assertions and never show any proof. well, you can, but you’re just going to get put on people’s ignore list,which makes for a less robust debate.
  3. Likewise, one could claim that Democrats aren’t very confident on their positions to have to resort to stonewalling common sense and voter IDs.
 
ishii said:
DeSanto - what’s the big deal about having to show an ID in order to vote? We have to do it to board a jet. We have to do it routinely. Why not voting? What do the voters have to hide? I live in a state that would have Dino Rossi as governor if there had been more guidelines to make sure only those who were eligible voted. As it was, the Democrat lost. Demanded a recount. Lost the recount. Then demanded a second “recount”. She “won” then. Complete fraud. How about reports of felons or illegal aliens voting? California and Washington have scores of illegal aliens. Prove you’re who you say you are. Then vote.

Ishii
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You forgot you have to show an ID to buy a gun, which is another protected right in the Constitution.
 
ishii said:
DeSanto - what’s the big deal about having to show an ID in order to vote? We have to do it to board a jet. We have to do it routinely. Why not voting? What do the voters have to hide? I live in a state that would have Dino Rossi as governor if there had been more guidelines to make sure only those who were eligible voted. As it was, the Democrat lost. Demanded a recount. Lost the recount. Then demanded a second “recount”. She “won” then. Complete fraud. How about reports of felons or illegal aliens voting? California and Washington have scores of illegal aliens. Prove you’re who you say you are. Then vote.

Ishii
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Voter ID would have hopefully reduced the margin of error as well.
 
He_Man said:
  1. It isn’t even close to unconstitutional. The USSC has ruled on it, and unless you believe having to show ID to buy a gun is unconstitutional, you’re being bit inconsistent. There are no documented cases of “gun buyer fraud,” but that didn’t stop IDs from being required. Why?
  2. Do you have any proof it is an attempt at voter suppression? You can’t keep making these assertions and never show any proof. well, you can, but you’re just going to get put on people’s ignore list,which makes for a less robust debate.
  3. Likewise, one could claim that Democrats aren’t very confident on their positions to have to resort to stonewalling common sense and voter IDs.
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I do wish people on this thread would consider my complete statements instead of picking and choosing what to take and run with. I have provided references to back up every claim I have made. I have repeatedly stated…showing an ID to vote is not what I have a problem with, I also live in a state that requires ID, I’m fine with it. I am not fine with the new restrictions, some quite rediculous ie (early voting restrictions) that are designed to make it harder for elligable voters access to their constitutional right to vote. I do not think anyone is interested in the facts. I have provided references regarding the fact that there are zero instances of voter fraud cases in PA, the fact that only republicans seem to be inflating this issue which is practically non-exsistant. All I ask is that someone acknowledge these facts.

patdollard.com/2011/10/new-state-rules-make-it-harder-to-vote/

nytimes.com/2009/09/18/us/18voter.html

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws#section_3

politicspa.com/turzai-voter-id-law-means-romney-can-win-pa/37153/

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_v._Marion_County_Election_Board#section_2

please pay attention to the dissent section of the above reference.

nytimes.com/2012/03/28/us/restrictions-on-voter-registration-in-florida-have-groups-opting-out.html

there is plenty more where that comes from. Someone who is truly interested in the truth will do their own research. I do not wish to continue this debate.
 
You guys-
The subject is Paul Ryan. Stop being derailed by the voter ID issue. We know there are ideologues who are against voter ID. We’ve flushed out their arguments, refuted them.

Back to the discussion. 🍿
 
mary_bobo said:
I give up. Others have shown that this is not a new movement. You have chosen to believe otherwise. So be it. And as far as it being unconstitutional to require ID to vote, recent court rulings have said otherwise. I am sorry that you have chosen to believe whoever it is that is feeding you this information, but the actual facts fly in the face of this. Be well.
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I stated I do not wish to continue this debate…this will be my last statement on this subject…

I have posted what “new” laws and restrictions I am speaking of. I have provided facts which cannot be denied. I have provided court documents, proof of new restrictive laws, supreme court rulings conceding the intent of voter suppression, unconstitutionality rulings of some of these laws, new and old, facts on the instances of voter fraud, ect, ect. I am aware this is not a new movement, that does not mean this is not a new trend of an old idea. Yes, both dems and reps have in the past used these tactics, I don’t deny that. The republicans are doing it now, why do you deny it? I am aware that there may be a need to update voting procedures so long as it does not disinfranchise elligable voters. I am not against voter ID. Please do not insult my intelligence as if I have been brainwashed, thank you. It seems no matter how many facts I provide there will be no acknowledgement of them if they disparage the republican party in any way, so I give up…So be it.

Peace be with you…
 
qui_est_ce said:
You guys-
The subject is Paul Ryan. Stop being derailed by the voter ID issue. We know there are ideologues who are against voter ID. We’ve flushed out their arguments, refuted them.

Back to the discussion. 🍿
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I apologize, I didn’t realize this is a forum just to see who wins the most arguments, despite facts? how obtuse. FACT: NOT AGAINST VOTER ID! Read my statements please.
 
DeSanto said:
I stated I do not wish to continue this debate…this will be my last statement on this subject…

I have posted what “new” laws and restrictions I am speaking of. I have provided facts which cannot be denied. I have provided court documents, proof of new restrictive laws, supreme court rulings conceding the intent of voter suppression, unconstitutionality rulings of some of these laws, new and old, facts on the instances of voter fraud, ect, ect. I am aware this is not a new movement, that does not mean this is not a new trend of an old idea. Yes, both dems and reps have in the past used these tactics, I don’t deny that. The republicans are doing it now, why do you deny it? I am aware that there may be a need to update voting procedures so long as it does not disinfranchise elligable voters. I am not against voter ID. Please do not insult my intelligence as if I have been brainwashed, thank you. It seems no matter how many facts I provide there will be no acknowledgement of them if they disparage the republican party in any way, so I give up…So be it.

Peace be with you…
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Thank you for your independent thinking and active search for the truth, rather than relying on preconceived ideas based on either right-wing or left-wing ideological arguments.
 
meltzerboy said:
Thank you for your independent thinking and active search for the truth, rather than relying on preconceived ideas based on either right-wing or left-wing ideological arguments.
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Thank you for your acknowledgement. This is a tough room.
 
DeSanto said:
Thank you for your acknowledgement. This is a tough room.
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With good reason. Perhaps we could start a new thread on the topic.

But for the life of me, I’m having a tough time finding the “facts” “court documents”, etc. you provided to support your argument.

Could you point me in the right direction?
 
scipio337 said:
With good reason. Perhaps we could start a new thread on the topic.

But for the life of me, I’m having a tough time finding the “facts” “court documents”, etc. you provided to support your argument.

Could you point me in the right direction?
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You’re on your own buddy, I’m done.
 
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