Paul Ryan!!

[DeSanto]

DeSanto,

What you fail to understand is that 1. Your opinions are not your own opinions, they are merely regurgitated talking points of liberal pundits and left-wing Democrats…2. Your “opinions” are not fact-based whatsoever.

I have no problem debating someone that comes at me with facts, but you simply do not, you just throw stuff out there and see what sticks. I have a problem with that. Your arguments are not clearly founded, and I will call anyone out on that repeatedly. If you have facts to debate, I will debate them with you. Calling something what it is is not tantamount to “ridiculing everyone who doesnt agree” with me.

If you want to engage in a debate, do your homework first and come forward with some independent thinking, and engage in a debate, don’t just ignore everything everyone else says and repeat arguments that have been debunked over and over again on this thread.

You conveniently just refuse to accept facts and repeat lies and falsehoods and repeatedly attempt to assassinate the character of Mr. Romney. That is unfair, not charitable, and not a genuine debate.

God bless.

-Paul

DeSanto,

With all due respect, not everyone that disagrees with you is being disrespectful and condescending. Simply pointing out the folly of your unsubstantiated points is not condescension. And the same could be said for you, by the way, who, instead of engaging in debate rattle off rumors and lies about a man you don’t even know trying to convince us that he has a bad character. So your qualm about being disrespected loses a lot of its luster when these things are combined. Again, I’m trying to explain the situation here in a respectful way. As I said, I would not mind engaging in a debate of ideas with you, but there is a lack of validity in your statements that really makes that difficult, and you ignore our points, and simply bring up the same arguments again that have already been proven wrong. It makes any conversation very difficult.

God bless.

-Paul

just a few more points and I’m outta here. 1. I have not ignored anything. I have spoke up more than ever on all the points I disagree with. And believe me I could say the same thing about some people spewing over and over misinformation and right wing rederick, fear mongering TALKING POINTS ( whatever you want to call it) 2. @Lisa, the poor can’t afford lobbyist…they’re voice is lost in all this. 3. I have referenced facts to back up my statements. I don’t claim to be some know it all, I could be wrong about something and if I am I will admit it. I’m not claiming to be a tax lawyer or a wall street big wig or banker. I’m just a regular person demanding fairness while trying to figure out this mess like everyone else. Fairness, balance, these are not bad words you know. 4. At least I have made sure not to insult ones intelligence, call any one a bigot, question ones faith or attack anyone personally.

 

[Havard]

did I say he was hiding it? Nope. How do you think I know about it? It’s about ethics.

…

Romney hides his money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying the little he does has to pay already in taxes.

 

[DeSanto]

Let’s see. Here’s a couple quick facts. Obamacare=Romneycare. Quite sure nobody wil deny that. Romney is pro-choice according to his voting record which is a fact. Now what about Ryan’s record. According to his record he is not the strict conservative he likes to portray. Actually, until Obama came to town it doesn’t look like he was too concerned about paying for stuff. Bank bail out, check…wars, check, prescription drug plan, check …ect ect…all unpayed for spending. What a great fiscal conservative huh? These are facts, do I need to prove them? My focus is not to degrade anyone. My opinion is Ryan is not a good choice. He is part of the do nothing congress which btw has the lowest poll ratings in US history. Just because I don’t like Obama does not mean I have to like the alternative. That is my explanation to the question at hand. Please respect my opinion.

 

[PJD1987]

just a few more points and I’m outta here. 1. I have not ignored anything. I have spoke up more than ever on all the points I disagree with. And believe me I could say the same thing about some people spewing over and over misinformation and right wing rederick, fear mongering TALKING POINTS ( whatever you want to call it) 2. @Lisa, the poor can’t afford lobbyist…they’re voice is lost in all this. 3. I have referenced facts to back up my statements. I don’t claim to be some know it all, I could be wrong about something and if I am I will admit it. I’m not claiming to be a tax lawyer or a wall street big wig or banker. I’m just a regular person demanding fairness while trying to figure out this mess like everyone else. Fairness, balance, these are not bad words you know. 4. At least I have made sure not to insult ones intelligence, call any one a bigot, question ones faith or attack anyone personally.

Fairness of course is not a bad word. The outright lies you try to pass off as fact, however, is not fair to Mr. Romney. You have had some facts and points that have been addressed and debated on the thread about Mr. Ryan’s budget. But then you switched gears to start talking about Mr. Romney personally, regurgitating falsehoods that have been proven false. Every point that the left has attacked Mr. Romney with has been fairly judged as false by non-partisan entities, and thus there is no room for them in this debate. Yet you continue to bring them up as if they are fact, when they simply are not. It is very simple, many of the things you brought up on this thread have just been outright lies of the left wing media/Democratic Party. And we have proven them to be so by using facts.

As far as insults, the person you called you a bigot, also quoted things you said yourself on this thread that one could interpret as being bigoted, when you began your attack on Mr. Romney, the first thing you entered into the conversation with was his religious affiliation. As far as your intelligence, I’m sure you are a very smart person, but when you are debating with someone like Harvard who does tax stuff for a living, one would fairly assume you would defer to his judgment on what you were saying, but no, you continued to debate him about it.

I firmly believe you are smarter than the left thinks you are, and that is why it is so disheartening to see you fall victim to the fear-mongering and character assassination campaign they have waged against Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan. I’m not sure where anyone questioned your faith, so I won’t comment on that.

And overall, I think your taking of things as “personal attacks” is your perception and not the reality.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[PJD1987]

Let’s see. Here’s a couple quick facts. Obamacare=Romneycare. Quite sure nobody wil deny that. Romney is pro-choice according to his voting record which is a fact. Now what about Ryan’s record. According to his record he is not the strict conservative he likes to portray. Actually, until Obama came to town it doesn’t look like he was too concerned about paying for stuff. Bank bail out, check…wars, check, prescription drug plan, check …ect ect…all unpayed for spending. What a great fiscal conservative huh? These are facts, do I need to prove them? My focus is not to degrade anyone. My opinion is Ryan is not a good choice. He is part of the do nothing congress which btw has the lowest poll ratings in US history. Just because I don’t like Obama does not mean I have to like the alternative. That is my explanation to the question at hand. Please respect my opinion.

It would be easier to respect your opinion if it were truly an informed opinion based on facts. However, it is not. What I, and I think others, have tried to do here is inform you as to the facts so you could truly have an opinion that is not based on fear and lies, and one based on facts.

You seem totally unwilling to accept these facts however, which is very frustrating.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[epan]

How could anyone vote for Obama who is against all Catholic values? Do I need to name them all? He has caused many problems with the deficit and this country needs two Christians that will get us out of debt and even possibly work on ending abortion. They will take care of all the poor and elderly, you must be listening to the liberals. ROMNEY/RYAN 2012

This is turning into a political discussion which is boring, and settles nothing. Keep in mind that the Bush administration designed TARP. I agree with you that Obama should have kicked anything originating with President Bush to the curb. Instead of doing that, he put the worst offenders to public interest on his Cabinet. In that respect, Obama is no better than President Bush. Bush was more catastrophic overall, because of his penchant for warfare (ie. Halliburton profits). But President Obama has been disappointing as a leader.

Yes, I do listen to “liberals”, and I listen to “conservatives”. Only monkeys put their paws over their ears.

 

[DeSanto]

…

I stand corrected, good looking out Harvard. I actually second guessed that when I posted it. I do however still believe “putting” his money in those accounts are a way to dodge paying his share and putting our countries own interest first. I don’t recall you, the tax lawyer, debunking my claim of lower rates being the reason for that account. Although it is not illegal it is evasive and taking advantage of the system. When running for president, doesn’t look so good, does it?

I guess actually to put your money in a Swiss account to avoid paying higher rates is kind of hiding from your responsibilities to your country though. But, I will admit, you got me honest mishap, not intentional.

 

[DeSanto]

…

It would be easier to respect your opinion if it were truly an informed opinion based on facts. However, it is not. What I, and I think others, have tried to do here is inform you as to the facts so you could truly have an opinion that is not based on fear and lies, and one based on facts.

You seem totally unwilling to accept these facts however, which is very frustrating.

God bless.

-Paul

ok. what is not fact about that quote? I thought these were facts everyone could agree with. Please tell me where I am wrong. I do not want to be misinformed.

 

[epan]

Nope. You raise taxes, the rich pay less taxes (by moving their investments offshore, etc).

The problem has never been too little revenue (although, with this President killing jobs, I will grant you that revenues are not what they could be), but too much spending.

Do you spend huge amounts over what you take in? Well, if you don’t, then why should the government do so?

How do you explain that every modern country does best by every measure of welfare, whether the person is rich or poor, depending on how flat their income distribution is?

For example, Sweden and Japan have the highest infant welfare, social mobility, educational level achieved, best childhood welfare figures by every measure, lowest poverty rates, on and on and on and on and on… doesn’t matter which metric you use. The wealthy in Japan and in Sweden don’t have as much as US billionaires, but they are better off by every significant measure. It turns out, that the relationship is linear. So, by every significant measure, Americans are doing worse than the rest of the modern world. (you might have to switch off fox news for a while to believe this). If you graph income disparity against aggregate social welfare, the inverse relationship is clear.

Regardless of any of that, I still have the personal opinion that when 1 percent of the population owns more than 90% of the population, then there is a huge problem.

So, rich, poor, and middle all do better with a flatter distribution. The interesting thing, is that Sweden achieves this the traditional American way (go back pre-Reagan), by taxing the richest. However Japan relies on morality. Top execs would never pat themselves on the back for taking home hundreds of thousands or millions for every dollar the lowest paid employee took home. Interesting that our “christian” culture embraces gluttony and greed, and applauds it, more than an Asian buddhist and shinto culture.

More than one generation has been betrayed by those who benefited from an essentially free and good education. I could go on for pages on how the boomers have put personal greed before personal and public welfare.

 

[meltzerboy]

Since when is stating the facts race politics? How is alleging that Obama is going to gut the Welfare reform “race politics” ? It is, only if you see everything in terms of race. If you want race politics (and shameful politics) then listen to vice president Biden tell a group of black voters that Romney will “put y’all back in chains”. Tell me something that a Republican of similar rank has said that even comes close to that. Open your eyes (and ears).

Ishii

Rick Santorum said the same thing about putting the audience back in chains. I saw and heard the clip today on MSNBC. Also, listen to Biden’s whole speech and you’ll hear the context of his remark.

 

[PJD1987]

ok. what is not fact about that quote? I thought these were facts everyone could agree with. Please tell me where I am wrong. I do not want to be misinformed.

Let’s see. Here’s a couple quick facts. Obamacare=Romneycare. Quite sure nobody wil deny that. Romney is pro-choice according to his voting record which is a fact. Now what about Ryan’s record. According to his record he is not the strict conservative he likes to portray. Actually, until Obama came to town it doesn’t look like he was too concerned about paying for stuff. Bank bail out, check…wars, check, prescription drug plan, check …ect ect…all unpayed for spending. What a great fiscal conservative huh? These are facts, do I need to prove them? My focus is not to degrade anyone. My opinion is Ryan is not a good choice. He is part of the do nothing congress which btw has the lowest poll ratings in US history. Just because I don’t like Obama does not mean I have to like the alternative. That is my explanation to the question at hand. Please respect my opinion.

Romneycare does NOT equal Obamacare. While they do share things in common, the most important fact is that Romneycare is a statewide initiative that is run and governed by the state. That, in and of itself, is COMPLETELY different than Obamacare, and changes how things are done…completely.

Romney was governor of Massachusetts, a very liberal state. As stated before in this thread, Romney’s vetoes of certain legislation was useless because they were overturned by the Democratic legislature. The fact that he was able to get anything done in Massachusetts as a Republican is a miracle and is testament to his governing abilities.

As far as Ryan’s votes that seem to reject his conservatism, please read his defense of these votes here: freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2917667/posts

If you’re looking for a 100% purist when it comes to conservative votes, well you’re going to be disappointed, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of conservatives were forced to make incredibly tough decisions under enormous pressure during the economic collapse of 2008. Does that make me lose respect for the guy? Absolutely not one bit. You may differ on that, but thats an opinion. The man certainly is a conservative, and to dispute that using a couple votes does not exactly make a strong case. His record speaks for itself. Also, the prescription drug plan under Bush, the fact that it came in UNDER BUDGET is conveniently lost in all the hoopla over the fact that many people didn’t like it for various reasons. So I think it’s an unfair criticism on that one.

To suggest that Ryan is “part of a do-nothing Congress” is absolutely true. The Congress does do nothing, but it’s not Paul Ryan’s fault. Paul Ryan is the only member of Congress ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO SOMETHING!! Sure, we can disagree about the plan…BUT HE’S THE ONLY PERSON WITH A PLAN TO DISCUSS!! At least he’s TRYING. The do-nothing Congress is the fault of Harry Reid. The House has passed a budget, but Reid refuses to even allow debate on it or a vote, and he has not proposed his own. The Democrats have not proposed a budget in over 1500 days. Mr. Obama is going to be the only president in US History that NEVER passed a budget in his term.

So, yes, the “Congress” as a whole is a do-nothing Congress. But that is the fault of the Democrats, and “Congress” does NOT equal Mr. Paul Ryan. That is an absolutely false claim to make that he has done nothing in the House. He is the only one actually trying to do something.

I think that covers most of what you said were “a few facts” to back up your disdain for Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan.

As I’ve demonstrated, they’re not exactly as factual as facts should be. Rather, they are rehashed, tired, left-wing arguments to defame Mr. Ryan and discredit Mr. Romney unfairly.

God bless.

-Paul

EDIT: Btw, my caps are not “yelling”, but rather just for emphasis. Just want to make sure that is clear!

 

[LisaA]

This is turning into a political discussion which is boring, and settles nothing. Keep in mind that the Bush administration designed TARP. I agree with you that Obama should have kicked anything originating with President Bush to the curb. Instead of doing that, he put the worst offenders to public interest on his Cabinet. In that respect, Obama is no better than President Bush. Bush was more catastrophic overall, because of his penchant for warfare (ie. Halliburton profits). But President Obama has been disappointing as a leader.

Yes, I do listen to “liberals”, and I listen to “conservatives”. Only monkeys put their paws over their ears.

Given that the thred is “Paul Ryan” who is the VP pick for the Republican ticket, it seems like politics was intended to be the subject. If you are bored with the discussion I am sure you can find other subjects and other threads.

I do give you credit for noting that Obama is Bush the Second in many respects, retaining the Patriot Act, Gitmo, drones, ramping up Afghanistan and following the Bush protocol for departing Iraq, established long before Obama was elected. The word “leader” and Obama can’t be used in the same sentence without “not” being between them. So I agree with you on that as well.

That being said, I shake my head everytime the word “Haliburton” is used. What possible benefit was it to Pres Bush if Haliburton ran the DFAC at Camp Victory? That’s just silly to keep bringing up a public company (you could buy stock in it since you think you have the inside track) as if it were sending money under the table to the Bush family. Aside from that this is literally ancient history in the political scheme. Can we move on?

Speaking of listening to liberals, the media has trotted out all of these amazingly nice things various liberals and Democrats said about Paul Ryan BEFORE he was tapped for VP. They are all probably taking Ipecac and fearing the impending doom from Axelrod, Plouffe and Obama.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Rick Santorum said the same thing about putting the audience back in chains. I saw and heard the clip today on MSNBC. Also, listen to Biden’s whole speech and you’ll hear the context of his remark.

I’ve seen it repeated numerous times. The problem with the old context excuse is that he clearly changed to a sort of Southern drawl when saying “Puttin’ ya’ll back in chains…” It sounded very racially oriented and had any white Republican used such words and accent, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been picketing their home. If nothing else given the circumstances, given the race agitation on the part of the Democrats, it was in extremely poor taste.

One thing about Joe…he’s the gaffe that keeps on giving. Odds are that Obama is going to find a good reason to dump him and announce Hilary as Veep at the Convention.

Lisa

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Yeah, Paul Ryan was a good pick. But, unfortunately since he is not on the top of the ticket it makes me no more likely to vote for Mitt Romney for President.

Mitt Romney forced the Catholic Church in Massachusetts to provide contraception. And he is on record that his personal opinion was that everyone should be able to choose contraception if they want it [IE: including the people that go to Catholic hospitals… which is probably a hefty percentage of the healthcare in Massachusetts].

If both parties field candidates which are evil, I won’t vote for either party. I won’t mar my conscience. And voting for Obama or Romney is something unconscionable to me.

I don’t care if the United States of America ceases to be as a political entity. Because the continuation of the Catholic Church is independent of the continuation of American government.

That said, I do feel represented by Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party, and will most likely vote for him (whether I have to write him in or not); unless persuaded by another third party before election day.

 

[ishii]

Rick Santorum said the same thing about putting the audience back in chains. I saw and heard the clip today on MSNBC. Also, listen to Biden’s whole speech and you’ll hear the context of his remark.

Could you provide a link or clip of what Santorum said? You want me to listen to the context of Biden’s speech but merely claim Santorum did the same thing?

Read: " They’re gonna put y’all back in chains." (my italics). C’mon, Meltzerboy, why not admit this shameless race-politics when it happens? Why the need to defend the undefensible?

Ishii

 

[meltzerboy]

I am convinced Paul Ryan is a social conservative, but is he really a fiscal conservative, given his votes for TARP, the auto bailout (something Romney was not in favor of), the banking industry, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so on, none of these paid for, and given his positive view regarding the philosophy of Ayn Rand? I’m sure this has been discussed somewhere in previous posts, but I would honestly like someone to convince me again that Ryan is really fiscally conservative as part of his economic philosophy, which is supply-side, I believe.

 

[Ecoclimber]

FACT:
Paul Ryan believes in social Darwinism or social re engineering of society to such an extent, that he requires all his staff and other conservative members of the GOP to read Any Rand’s book, Atlas Shrugged. He based his 2013 GOP budget on the principles of Any Rand. He is the chairman of the powerful House Budget Committee.

Who is Ayn Rand? She is a godless philosopher who believes in the principle and promotion of the principle of selfishness and a godless, hedonistic and narcissistic society based on social Darwinian principles.

swampland.time.com/2011/06/03…#ixzz1qG1OHTe4

tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cha…n-and-ayn-rand

**Just Google: Ayn Rand Paul Ryan!

---

Statistics on Wealth Distribution in America.
**
Net Worth:
Net Worth 80 percent: 15% of net worth
Next 10 percent: 12%of net worth
Next 5 percent 11% of net worth
Next 4 percent: 27% of net worth
Top 1 percent: 35% of net worth

Bottom line: TOP 9% in America control 73% of net worth

Net Wealth
Bottom 80% percent of Americans: 7% of financial wealth
Next 10 percent: 10% of financial wealth
Next 5 percent: 11% of financial wealth
Next 4 percent: 29% of financial wealth
Top 1 percent: 43% of financial wealth

Bottom line: TOP 9% in America control 83% of financial wealth

Now someone has to pay for all those tax breaks to the top 1% and 10%. Something has to be cut in order to pay the wealthiest people in America. So a systematic campaign by Paul Ryan to blame it on the entitlement programs for the elderly, the disabled, the sick and the poor. It is social Darwinism of survival of the fittest promulgated by Ayn Rand and whose clarion call Paul Ryan has taken to promoting among conservatives.

 

[ishii]

Yeah, Paul Ryan was a good pick. But, unfortunately since he is not on the top of the ticket it makes me no more likely to vote for Mitt Romney for President.

Mitt Romney forced the Catholic Church in Massachusetts to provide contraception. And he is on record that his personal opinion was that everyone should be able to choose contraception if they want it [IE: including the people that go to Catholic hospitals… which is probably a hefty percentage of the healthcare in Massachusetts].

If both parties field candidates which are evil, I won’t vote for either party. I won’t mar my conscience. And voting for Obama or Romney is something unconscionable to me.

I don’t care if the United States of America ceases to be as a political entity. Because the continuation of the Catholic Church is independent of the continuation of American government.

That said, I do feel represented by Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party, and will most likely vote for him (whether I have to write him in or not); unless persuaded by another third party before election day.

To all 3rd party voters: Don’t listen to this nonsense. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is a gift to the pro-abortion Barrack Obama. If you want Obama to win and continue his assault on the unborn, continue his assault on the constitution, continue his assault on the Catholic Church, continue his assault on the financial solvency of the country, then vote for the “perfect” true-believer candidate of a 3rd party. It might make you feel good - but know what you are doing: you are merely enabling evil policies to continue.

Ishii

 

[YADA]

Romney hides his money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying the little he does has to pay already in taxes. The people “pulling the wagon” own more wealth than the rest of the country put together. Half the people not paying taxes is because they don’t make enough money, cmon! Does any of this matter to you or are you just the type that is willing to vote for anything that isn’t Obama?

And the Kennedy’s and Kerry’s too keep their money in off shore trusts …

The only person who paid any estate tax on Jackie Os estate was not John or Caroline nor any other relative … the only person who paid any taxes on any part of her estate was the lady who won the bracelet obtained from her estate by the Mars Candy company … she paid the taxes on the “win” … thats it -

George Soros - he has brought down countries with his wealth - and he is not a conservative … he is working to keep the democrats in power - because they keep the entitlement mentality going … and a populace that cannot take of itself is easier to control …

Sorry to burst your bubble - but assistance dictated at the federal level is absurd …

A federal minimum wage? … Obviously does not work - that is why many states opt for a statewide minimum … State minimum wage … this to does not work - that is why many Cities and Counties opt for their own minimum wages … When should a minimum wage be changed? Annually or every 10 years? How should minimums be raised - by a decision of a bunch of politicians or by a cost of living index? Who decides what expenses count in the cost of living - think that necessary items like heating oil are factored into this index? Nope …

So explain why the federal government needs to set a minimum wage? It does not … many factors- especially when assisting the poor - should be managed at the lowest possible level … preferably families and charitable organizations - never higher then local government …

And it is never better to send money to Washington - hoping that it can be past around several bureaucracies - and return to feed and house people efficiently and effectively … AMTRAK looses money on hamburgers every day - hamburgers that are sold at Ritz-Carlton menu prices … sells for $9.50 … costs $16 …

ANd Obama is feeling your pain so much - he is Microbrewing - Homemade beer in the Whitehouse … wonder what that is costing you

I care about those less fortunate then me and work to help them regain their place in society and gain jobs, homes and self esteem … it does not include perpetuating them in their addictions and destructive behaviors - w hich is what you get with federal one size fits all mentality of - sign me up for that next handout

 

[rlg94086]

Rick Santorum said the same thing about putting the audience back in chains. I saw and heard the clip today on MSNBC. Also, listen to Biden’s whole speech and you’ll hear the context of his remark.

You can defend him all you want, but why did a man from Deleware use “y’all?” Why did he tell the Virginians that he just needs to win their state of North Carolina and they would win the country?

The man is the Democrat gaffe-o-matic. Wind him up, and watch him go…