Paul Ryan!!

[YADA]

Lisa,
…
No, I do not pay more than I owe, not sure what your point is there. It is a fact that the tax rates are extremely low and if you think that we can simply cut our way out of the mess that our leaders (with an s) have put us in, with no increase in revenue…

to increase revenues does not require increasing tax rates … you may increase revenues by increasing the number of people earning wages … 100 people paying 10 percent increased to 1000 people paying 10 percent equates to increased revenues … the exisitng number of companies being created and paying business taxes increased by 10 percent equates to more revenue … it does not mean that you need to increase the manner in which taxes are collected [national sales tax or increased marginal rates] - recognizing that it takes captial to create jobs is common sense - not welfare for the wealthy…

taking advantage… I said sounds like Romney. That made you very angry but, your last statement proved my point. Thank you. That is all I said and my words have been sorely misconstrued.

What exactly - factually - has Romney done to take advantage of tax laws or policies - to take advantage that is not available to others and is immoral and/or illegal? - because when you say this that is what you are implying …

 

[PJD1987]

I do not fear evil. And neither does the Catholic Church. We should relish in our suffering!

Praise God that there is an assault on the Catholic Church. If it actually gets intense, maybe we’ll be blessed with martyrs! The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Faith. Well, God knows our Faith needs help.

In the Church’s eyes I will be guilty of no sin voting for a third party.

Your rhetoric about “enabling evil” is just that… rhetoric. It is irrelevant to the state of my mortal soul.

P.S. I don’t care at all about financial solvency. God is my master, not mammon.

If you’d like to play semantics with your eternal soul on the line, fine, but that’s on you. The fact is you will be enabling evil no matter what mental gymnastics you use to justify your position. Why anyone would want to do anything to enable the further persecution of Christs Church is beyond me.

I implore you to reconsider and I will pray that you change your mind.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[DeSanto]

Ecoclimber… thank you!! Compassion is missing from these economic issues. anger and resentment reside.

 

[meltzerboy]

Serious…and seriously embarrassing. If a Republican had done what Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden had done when speaking to a heavily black audience, the press would be skewering them. Instead, they are defending Biden.

Did you see Hillary dancing in South Africa? Now THAT was embarrassing. But when you get to a certain age, what the heck? I should know.

 

[PJD1987]

DeSanto,

Will you be responding to my most recent post? Or did you already and I missed it?

God bless.

-Paul

 

[DeSanto]

to increase revenues does not require increasing tax rates … you may increase revenues by increasing the number of people earning wages … 100 people paying 10 percent increased to 1000 people paying 10 percent equates to increased revenues … the exisitng number of companies being created and paying business taxes increased by 10 percent equates to more revenue … it does not mean that you need to increase the manner in which taxes are collected [national sales tax or increased marginal rates] - recognizing that it takes captial to create jobs is common sense - not welfare for the wealthy…

What exactly - factually - has Romney done to take advantage of tax laws or policies - to take advantage that is not available to others and is immoral and/or illegal? - because when you say this that is what you are implying …

Get rid of the “Temporary Tax Cuts” that will raise revenue. they were temporary and they were supposed to trickle down to everyone else. please acknowledge that is a failed plan. trickle down does not work, they did not create more jobs. that was a republican idea and they are still trying to sell it to us. where are the jobs? as to your second question…you were the one talking about people taking advantage of the food stamp system. Also legal, and not as easy to get as you might think. Not everyone can get them. You do have to be poor. So if it’s ok for Romney to use the tools provided to him why not people in need?

 

[CMatt25]

The Democratic talking points are a tired argument. If you want to allow yourself to be taken by lies and fear and class warfare, then fine. But its still not true or a valid argument.

God bless.

-Paul

As opposed to the Republican talking points espoused by I’d estimate a good 2/3 to 3/4 of CAF posters on this subforum. Actually though a case for class warfare can be made when Republicans want to cut programs for the poor while benefiting the rich with tax cuts. The problem is almost everything appears to be on the table for Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, and other Republicans except raising tax rates on those most able to afford tax increases. I know the theory is trickle down. But as Vice President Biden said, there is nothing gutsy about this. We’ve seen this movie before. The rich got their tax cuts under Bush and did not create the jobs we were promised they would. We don’t want to go backwards. Unless for instance it’s back to the higher tax rates the rich were paying under President Bill Clinton back in the 90s with a booming economy.

 

[LisaA]

Never happen. Dumping Biden and admitting that it was a huge mistake in picking him would be worse than keeping him, imo. Do you think Hillary would help the ticket?

Ishii

Ishii, first thing great to see you weighing in. Your posts are always thoughtful, logical and factual…what a concept

Actually the statement was rather tongue in cheek. This theory was bandied around by the pundits, particularly after the recent Biden BooBoo. I don’t think anything was serious just filling up airtime. That being said, I remember HOPING he’d pick Biden as picking Hillary would have been a shoo in for the ticket but with Biden, we’d have a chance. My theory now is that he’s Obama’s life insurance. No one wants to think of him as CIC

Lisa

 

[DeSanto]

DeSanto,

Will you be responding to my most recent post? Or did you already and I missed it?

God bless.

-Paul

I did I was trying to stay awake to see your response. I really must go though. I will check back tomorrow…maybe No hard feelings ok? This was a tough room!

 

[Semper_Zelare]

If you’d like to play semantics with your eternal soul on the line, fine, but that’s on you. The fact is you will be enabling evil no matter what mental gymnastics you use to justify your position. Why anyone would want to do anything to enable the further persecution of Christs Church is beyond me.

I implore you to reconsider and I will pray that you change your mind.

God bless.

-Paul

Maybe it’s beyond you because only 3 of your last 50 posts have NOT been about politics.

Faith > Politics

I am a political science major. And this is a realization that I have had. Discussing politics only causes internal tension, hostility, anger, and a whole host of sins stemming from uncharitability. (speaking for myself anyways).

Going to Mass daily, praying the Rosary, the Sacraments, Eucharistic adoration. These things give me peace, grace, and love. These things help me to know God. What does politics give me? Does politics protect the Church? I don’t think it does. Didn’t you see the film: For Greater Glory? The Church doesn’t need one party to protect it from another, all it needs are its lay faithful to pray… and to fight justly when necessary.

P.S.
Fact: Post 1186 was reported by me for containing a personal attack on my person.

 

[LisaA]

You are profoundly incorrect as to what I am unaware of.

You are unaware then CMatt. Here is the deal. If a doctor accepts Medicare patients…and they don’t HAVE to…they must abide by Medicare’s very restrictive rules. One of them is that Medicare has allowable amounts for various procedures. A patient can’t come in and say “Well Doc, Medicare only paid $1785 for that triple bypass and I’d like to pay you another $2000 because you saved my life.” To accept a dime over the Medicare allowable will subject you to being unable to accept Medicare patients and if it appears to be an overt violation instead of somehow a clerical error, you can be charged with Medicare fraud. As Luigi stated if a doctor stays out of the system entirely and simply charges fee for service then he can set the rate of payment. But that’s not very practical given our demographic! So even if a patient CAN pay more financially, he can’t pay more legally.

FWIW I work in the field as I’ve said numerous times. Our clinic spent upper five figures on a compliance audit. We take Medicare laws VERY seriously.

Lisa

 

[DeSanto]

#1 I am not denying that the mandate is a terrible idea and that it was implemented in Massachusetts. That is a fact, obviously, but it does not equal a federal program. They do have things in common, as I said, but the simple fact that one is a statewide and one is a federal mandate alters the entire concept of what it is and how it operates. Whether or not he may have supported a nationwide mandate in the past is irrelevant. He is running on a platform to repeal Obamacare, and that is a fact. If you think he’ll take office and not accomplish the one thing he ran on, well…that’s Mr. Obama, not Mr. Romney for you.

**

Again, why the condescending comment…do you understand how government works? uh yeah and the republicans have demonstrated this very same behavior in historic proportions the pas four years. where have you been? well actually after the 2010 tea party referendum. Then what, congress died.**** I didn’t notice you posted again. I am so sorry but I cannot even finish reading this post I’m so tired. I hope we can continue tomorrow.******

#2 He was Governor of the State of Massachusetts, as such, he never voted for anything. Do you understand how government works? He has veto power, but it was useless because the Democratic dominated legislature overrode his vetoes every single time. Thus things he did not agree with were passed.

#3 If you read the article I linked in my response, you will see Mr. Ryan explain his votes in his own words. Also, the paragraph under your response explains in more detail how your characterization of Mr. Ryan was unfair.

The rest of my comments you had no argument back for, so I suppose I did specify enough for you there how what you said about Mr. Ryan was a falsehood.

And by the way, it’s not that you are lying yourself, but you are just passing on the lies of others. I’m just trying to inform you that they are not true.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[PJD1987]

Maybe it’s beyond you because only 3 of your last 50 posts have NOT been about politics.

Faith > Politics

I am a political science major. And this is a realization that I have had. Discussing politics only causes internal tension, hostility, anger, and a whole host of sins stemming from uncharitability.

Going to Mass daily, praying the Rosary, the Sacraments, Eucharistic adoration. These things give me peace, grace, and love. These things help me to know God. What does politics give me? Does politics protect the Church? I don’t think it does. Didn’t you see the film: For Greater Glory? The Church doesn’t need one party to protect it from another, all it needs are its lay faithful to pray… and to fight justly when necessary.

Excuse me, but I don’t think its necessary to insult. Especially seeing as this is a political thread, and thus the topic is politics, so cut it out with the cute sarcastic comments.

Number two, that’s awesome that you’re a political science major. So am I, your point? I find it hilarious that you are lecturing me on charity after you just insulted me. That’s cute.

Three, please drop the sanctimonious attitude. It’s unnecessary, we’re largely all Catholics here and frequent the Sacraments just as you do. I’m glad they give you peace, grace, and love, they do for me as well…your point?

Four, politics in this country have been protected for centuries until this administration. Part of fighting justly for our Church is participating in our civic duties of voting. And when one party’s platform is so diametrically opposed to everything the Church teaches, it is incumbent upon the faithful to rise up and vote that person/persons out of office. Thus, it is incumbent upon us to vote Mr. Obama out of office to end the persecution of our faith. Voting third party only enables Mr. Obama to be re-elected, and there’s no way around that.

I would thank you to not insult me in future posts, as I do not like the tone you used when first addressing me. My post to you was an encouragement and prayer for you to change your mind, and nothing else. I will continue to pray for that.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[meltzerboy]

Sen. Sanders debunked the Romney lie about preserving Medicare, “Well everybody understands that they are destroying Medicare as it is currently constituted. What they intend to do is convert Medicare over a period of years into a voucher program. So what they’re going to say to a 70 year old senior who is dealing with cancer or heart disease here is a check for eight thousand dollars, go out and get the best private insurance that you can, and lots of luck. Now you tell me, Ed if somebody is dealing with cancer or heart disease, or a serious illness what eight thousand dollars is going to do. Everybody knows what it means is that a). Seniors are going to have to come up with more money out of their own pocket, or their kids are going to have to help them, or worse, they’re not going to get the care they need.”

Fact: $700 million were cuts to drug and health company subsidies NOT to recipients. Good luck in buying health insurance that will cost $18,000 on vouchers for $8,000 and living on social security income.

politicususa.com/bernie-sanders-rips-masks-billionaire-oligarch-puppets-romney-ryan.html

Pope Benedict XVI encyclical, Caritas in Veritate…
"Such development requires a transcendent vision of the person, it needs God: without him, development is either denied, or entrusted exclusively to humanity, which falls into the trap of thinking it can bring about its own salvation, and ends up promoting a dehumanized form of development. Only through an encounter with God are we able to see in the other something more than just another creature, to recognize the divine image** in the other, thus truly coming to discover him or her and to mature in a love that ‘becomes concern and care for the other."**

The encyclical raises up another essential lynchpin of Catholic social morality, *the common good.*** "Another important consideration is the common good**. To love someone is to desire that person’s good and to take effective steps to secure it. Besides the good of the individual there is a good that is linked to living in society: the common good. It is the good of ‘all of us’… It is a good that is sought not for its own sake, but for the people who belong to the social community.

Thirdly, the encyclical clearly articulates the moral disjunction that erupts when social “progress” is divorced from a consistent ethic of life. It is impossible to address the issue of poverty without addressing abortion and euthanasia, among other life issues. As Pope Benedict XVI says, “…*the social question has become a radically anthropological question." (75) "While the poor of the world continue knocking on the doors of the rich, the world of affluence runs the risk of no longer hearing those knocks, on account of a conscience that can no longer distinguish what is human***.” **

Blessings to all,

I’m not going to comment on Pope Benedict’s encyclical, but the first part of your post tells it like it is, I think. The cuts in Obama’s plan are for the drug and health-care providers, whereas in Ryan’s plan the cuts affect the recipients, that is, seniors. Why can’t others understand this essential difference? Your first paragraph about the vouchers is also a potentially serious problem for seniors if the competitive-provider idea doesn’t work. Current seniors will likely not be affected by the Ryan plan, but those not yet under Medicare, say, 50 to 60 year olds, may be in trouble under his plan, if it even is enacted, which I doubt.

 

[PJD1987]

Again, why the condescending comment…do you understand how government works? uh yeah and the republicans have demonstrated this very same behavior in historic proportions the pas four years. where have you been? well actually after the 2010 tea party referendum. Then what, congress died.

We can continue tomorrow. Your comment about Mr. Romney begged the question, by the way, seeing as he was Governor and did not vote on anything. My point still stands and yours about Republicans is irrelevant to the point I was making.

As far as the Republicans go, I’ve already demonstrated in previous posts how it is the Democratically led Senate that is obstructing anything from being done. They have not passed a budget since Obama has been president, that is absolutely and unforgivably irresponsible on their part. To suggest it is the Tea Party’s fault for this is to not have a grasp of the facts.

We will continue tomorrow if you so desire. In any case, have a good night.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[LisaA]

As opposed to the Republican talking points espoused by I’d estimate a good 2/3 to 3/4 of CAF posters on this subforum. Actually though a case for class warfare can be made when Republicans want to cut programs for the poor while benefiting the rich with tax cuts. The problem is almost everything appears to be on the table for Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, and other Republicans except raising tax rates on those most able to afford tax increases. I know the theory is trickle down. But as Vice President Biden said, there is nothing gutsy about this. We’ve seen this movie before. The rich got their tax cuts under Bush and did not create the jobs we were promised they would. We don’t want to go backwards. Unless it’s back to the higher tax rates the rich were paying under President Bill Clinton back in the 90s with a booming economy.

CMatt you have a very selective memory. The Bush Tax Cuts came after 9/11 when our country and economy was literally on its knees. They DID work and unemployment and the market and the economy were humming along VERY well until the Dems took over Congress in 2006. The economic meltdown of 08 like many such crises is an orphan but if you look back it was baked in the cake. Between the push to give loans to people who couldn’t pay for them…we called them NINJA loans…No Income No Job…and the changes to equity and investment regulations there were no angels in this play. And given the oh so competent Obama DOJ can’t seem to find a SINGLE person to charge, I have to wonder why you and others have any faith in Obama to actually rein in abuses of Wall Street. So please don’t conveniently forget the incredible economy during seven of the eight years Bush was in office. Further how in the world can you blame the Bush tax cuts for the financial meltdown? What did tax cuts that were passed almost a decade prior have to do with the financial sector imploding?

As to the great Clinton economy, you have another moment of forgetfulness. Like our own housing bubble explosion in 08, Clinton’s booming economy was a result of the DotCom bubble that burst right about the time Bush took office. Were you around then CMatt? Funny how Bush never blamed Clinton for leaving HIM with a mess. He used the cuts to stimulate the economy out of a recession that was taking hold. But of course it’s all forgotten now.

Your kneejerk comments “tax cuts for the rich” “kill programs for the poor” are just talking points and not based on any compelling evidence that increasing taxes on ANYONE will create a single job or make any dent in the deficit nor have you demonstrated all of these bloated and inefficient government programs SHOULDN’T be cut.

It’s going to take honesty and looking at the real problems without all of the demagogues weighing in. Talking points and bumper stickers are not going to solve anything.

Lisa

 

[rlg94086]

Did you see Hillary dancing in South Africa? Now THAT was embarrassing. But when you get to a certain age, what the heck? I should know.

 

[CMatt25]

Sen. Sanders debunked the Romney lie about preserving Medicare, “Well everybody understands that they are destroying Medicare as it is currently constituted. What they intend to do is convert Medicare over a period of years into a voucher program. So what they’re going to say to a 70 year old senior who is dealing with cancer or heart disease here is a check for eight thousand dollars, go out and get the best private insurance that you can, and lots of luck. Now you tell me, Ed if somebody is dealing with cancer or heart disease, or a serious illness what eight thousand dollars is going to do. Everybody knows what it means is that a). Seniors are going to have to come up with more money out of their own pocket, or their kids are going to have to help them, or worse, they’re not going to get the care they need.”

Fact: $700 million were cuts to drug and health company subsidies NOT to recipients. Good luck in buying health insurance that will cost $18,000 on vouchers for $8,000 and living on social security income.

politicususa.com/bernie-sanders-rips-masks-billionaire-oligarch-puppets-romney-ryan.html

Pope Benedict XVI encyclical, Caritas in Veritate…
"Such development requires a transcendent vision of the person, it needs God: without him, development is either denied, or entrusted exclusively to humanity, which falls into the trap of thinking it can bring about its own salvation, and ends up promoting a dehumanized form of development. Only through an encounter with God are we able to see in the other something more than just another creature, to recognize the divine image** in the other, thus truly coming to discover him or her and to mature in a love that ‘becomes concern and care for the other."**

The encyclical raises up another essential lynchpin of Catholic social morality, *the common good.*** "Another important consideration is the common good**. To love someone is to desire that person’s good and to take effective steps to secure it. Besides the good of the individual there is a good that is linked to living in society: the common good. It is the good of ‘all of us’… It is a good that is sought not for its own sake, but for the people who belong to the social community.

Thirdly, the encyclical clearly articulates the moral disjunction that erupts when social “progress” is divorced from a consistent ethic of life. It is impossible to address the issue of poverty without addressing abortion and euthanasia, among other life issues. As Pope Benedict XVI says, “…*the social question has become a radically anthropological question." (75) "While the poor of the world continue knocking on the doors of the rich, the world of affluence runs the risk of no longer hearing those knocks, on account of a conscience that can no longer distinguish what is human***.” **

Blessings to all,

Blessings to you as well. Thanks for this. I knew Senator Sanders was coming on one of the shows I had on to debunk Romney - Ryan. I forget now if it was yesterday or today but I was channel surfing and missed his appearance. So thanks for sharing it here.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Excuse me, but I don’t think its necessary to insult. Especially seeing as this is a political thread, and thus the topic is politics, so cut it out with the cute sarcastic comments.

Number two, that’s awesome that you’re a political science major. So am I, your point? I find it hilarious that you are lecturing me on charity after you just insulted me. That’s cute.

Three, please drop the sanctimonious attitude. It’s unnecessary, we’re largely all Catholics here and frequent the Sacraments just as you do. I’m glad they give you peace, grace, and love, they do for me as well…your point?

Four, politics in this country have been protected for centuries until this administration. Part of fighting justly for our Church is participating in our civic duties of voting. And when one party’s platform is so diametrically opposed to everything the Church teaches, it is incumbent upon the faithful to rise up and vote that person/persons out of office. Thus, it is incumbent upon us to vote Mr. Obama out of office to end the persecution of our faith. Voting third party only enables Mr. Obama to be re-elected, and there’s no way around that.

I would thank you to not insult me in future posts, as I do not like the tone you used when first addressing me. My post to you was an encouragement and prayer for you to change your mind, and nothing else. I will continue to pray for that.

God bless.

-Paul

I’m sorry I didn’t mean to insult you. Only 7% of what we communicate can be communicated through text alone. So, a lot of what I communicated was obviously lost.

I’m very rarely sarcastic, and if I had used a tone of voice to speak that last post it certainly wouldn’t have been sarcastic. It probably would’ve been very nostalgic and sighful. I’m trying to convey that a lot of the discourse here might happen because y’all are on Catholic Answers Forum to only discuss politics.

And I’m trying to relate to y’all that from my personal experience that caused me to sin. It affected me negatively personally. I’m not saying it does for you or anyone else. But, I personally cannot see how being on a forum discussing politics all day does anybody any good. So, I was very sincerely trying to coax you and perhaps Ishii to reconsider how y’all spend your time.

I was trying to do that very sincerely.

Again, I’m sorry you thought that tone was sarcastic. I’m using a very consoling tone when I say: there’s simply a 93% chance that the tone you didn’t like actually wasn’t the one I used. sigh inner decrying of what communication has come to

Lastly, I don’t think it’s incumbent on me as a Catholic to vote for Mitt Romney. And if I really felt like voting third party WAS sinful, then I’d ask my priest about it. But, I’m probably not going to do that. Do you and Ishii think that I should? Because I might if EVERYONE tells me it’s sinful to vote for a third party. [Serious tone, I would literally consult my pastor]

That’s it. I’d rather die joyfully at the hands of our persecutors than listen to political argument that isn’t IMBUED with faith. If I do a control F search for Church and Catholic and don’t find any results, I’m done.

Furthermore, these 4 posts on this thread encourage me to pour myself into ministry in the real world. Where I can convey my meaning through body language, tone of voice, and inflection. Not just the 7% of meaning which comes from words alone.

 

[sistermouse]

Good choice because he is PRO-LIFE!!