Paul Ryan!!

[PJD1987]

I’m sorry I didn’t mean to insult you. Only 7% of what we communicate can be communicated through text alone. So, a lot of what I was communicated was obviously lost.

I’m very rarely sarcastic, and if I had used a tone of voice to speak that last post it certainly wouldn’t have been sarcastic. It probably would’ve been very nostalgic and sighful. I’m trying to convey that a lot of the discourse here might happen because y’all are on Catholic Answers Forum to only discuss politics.

And I’m trying to relate to y’all that from my personal experience that caused me to sin. It affected me negatively personally. I’m not saying it does for you or anyone else. But, I personally cannot see how being on a forum discussing politics all day does anybody any good. So, I was very sincerely trying to coax you and perhaps Ishii to reconsider how y’all spend your time.

I was trying to do that very sincerely.

Again, I’m sorry you thought that tone was sarcastic. I’m using a very consoling tone when I say: there’s simply a 93% that the tone you didn’t like actually wasn’t the one I used. sigh inner decrying of what communication has come to

Lastly, I don’t think it’s incumbent on me as a Catholic to vote for Mitt Romney. And if I really felt like voting third party WAS sinful, then I’d ask my priest about it. But, I’m probably not going to do that. Do you and Ishii think that I should? Because I might if EVERYONE tells me it’s sinful to vote for a third party. [Serious tone, I would literally consult my pastor]

That’s it. I’d rather die joyfully at the hands of our persecutors than listen to political argument that isn’t IMBUED with faith. If I do a control F search for Church and Catholic and don’t find any results, I’m done.

Furthermore, these 4 posts on this thread encourage me to pour myself into ministry in the real world. Where I can convey my meaning through body language, tone of voice, and inflection. Not just the 7% of meaning which comes from words alone.

I apologize for jumping down your throat, I did read your post in a rather negative tone, it was hard to read it otherwise. In any event, discussing politics is what I enjoy, if you don’t thats fine, but why then are you a political science major? lol This is, in my estimation and that of many others, the most crucial election ever. The very future of our Church is at stake, the underpinning of this entire discussion is that very fact. That is why I am so passionate about getting Mr. Obama out of office, and dispelling the fear-mongering of the left when it comes to Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan.

I personally do think it is a sin of omission to “sit this one out”, if you will. I don’t understand how anyone could do that given the circumstances and the intrinsic evil embodied by the Democratic ticket, in light of all Catholic Teaching…on essentially every topic, most important being abortion, and closely linked with the persecution of our faith. I, unlike you, do not relish the thought of red martyrdom for my faith. Martyrdom is a grace I don’t wish to ever discover if I have or not. And the fact that it even has to be discussed is absolutely appalling in this country. These facts alone reinforce my thinking on the topic of voting.

I’m aware the Church does not have a definitive statement on this, it is one of those topics up for discussion, a decision of prudential judgment. In my estimation though, a vote for a 3rd party or a no-vote is a sin of omission by not doing all one can to vote intrinsic evil out of the White House and protecting Holy Mother Church in this country. Voting is our way of fighting for the faith right now. I hope to God we are successful and don’t need to fight any other way. But our efforts could use all the help we can get, and faithful Catholics who “sit this one out” are not helping the cause. To me, personally, its analogous to Pilate washing his hands of the issue and putting it on other people. I don’t think it’s prudent to sit on the sidelines and hope for everything to go well when one can be out on the front lines with the rest of the Church Militant fighting the good fight (aka voting for Mr. Romney).

It’s up to everyone else to make up their own mind on that. But I will continue to pray for those that are considering that option, that they will change their mind and see the good in Mr. Romney and the many reasons to vote for him.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[LisaA]

I’m not going to comment on Pope Benedict’s encyclical, but the first part of your post tells it like it is, I think. The cuts in Obama’s plan are for the drug and health-care providers, whereas in Ryan’s plan the cuts affect the recipients, that is, seniors. Why can’t others understand this essential difference? Your first paragraph about the vouchers is also a potentially serious problem for seniors if the competitive-provider idea doesn’t work. Current seniors will likely not be affected by the Ryan plan, but those not yet under Medicare, say, 50 to 60 year olds, may be in trouble under his plan, if it even is enacted, which I doubt.

Meltzerboy you don’t understand the consequences. Note the bolded area…Obamacare cuts the providers etc. Here’s the problem, if you don’t pay people they will not provide you with drugs, services, or care. Already Medicare and Medicaid patients cannot find providers because the payment is SO abysmal that it’s not worth taking them. I will give you a real example. We used to have a pediatric surgery practice. It was not lucrative but the head doc loved working on babies and children. The practice gradually became almost entirely Medicaid. A $5000 surgery on a neonate, a baby with a heart the size of a walnut, paid about $700! At first the head doc just took less money so he could keep the practice going. Then he took NO money out of the practice to keep the other two doctors and assistants employed. Finally we closed the practice. We literally could not pay our bills and our people with a high Medicaid demographic.

So Obamacare works by lowering the already pathetic payments to doctors, by RATIONING care…something I think seniors might find of concern…and by trying to fund it with unrelated taxes such as on tanning salons and taking over student loans. Oh and they got rid of Medicare Advantage, something low income seniors LOVED because it gave them better coverage. Obamacare is a disaster in so many ways and if it’s not overturned it will die of its own weight I assure you.

Once seniors understand the terrible consequences of Obamacare and the possibilities of the Ryan plan, I think they will overwhelmingly support it. As it is, I believe seniors already support Ryan’s ideas. They HATE Obamacare trust me…I hear this every day with our patients. It will not take much education to convince them that Ryan/Romney have a lot better ideas for seniors.

As to the Ryan plan, the point is to cut costs and increase access for patients. You do this by competition, by giving seniors $$$$ to spend as THEY choose for the kind of plan they want. The premium support option gives MORE support to the lower income seniors and less financial benefit to the rich. You should honestly LOVE this plan if you think the poor should be given additional help. The Obamacare plan treats all seniors the same…rich or poor. Does that sound either fair or fiscally responsible?

I hope more of you on the Dem’s side will truly look into Obamacare and its terrible consequences.

Lisa

 

[YADA]

Get rid of the “Temporary Tax Cuts” that will raise revenue. they were temporary and they were supposed to trickle down to everyone else. please acknowledge that is a failed plan. trickle down does not work, they did not create more jobs. that was a republican idea and they are still trying to sell it to us. where are the jobs? as to your second question…you were the one talking about people taking advantage of the food stamp system. Also legal, and not as easy to get as you might think. Not everyone can get them. You do have to be poor. So if it’s ok for Romney to use the tools provided to him why not people in need?

I have no problem with helping people in need of food … I do not believe that the federal government is the best vehicle for delivery of food … even food stamp assistance delivered from the state level is problematic - and not just from the side of recipients - though fraud is common … predators prey upon recipients as well.

Its a fact that many states have had to restrict electronic welfare and food stamp debit cards from ATM access in casinos ….

Convenience stores - higher priced food goods are heavily used by welfare recipients and owners have perpetrated frauds on the system …

I know of a young couple - both collecting unemployment and posting on their face book pages the elaborate and expensive dinners they are spending their unemployment checks upon … now the state is going to provide retraining $$s for upto four years for this young man [also - the young man has been offered a job in Texas by a family member] - he just won’t make the move from the Pacific Northwest and does not have to - nor have any inclination to work when he Can collect a check - their friends and family are unable to explain what is going on with them -and with the face book posts it is very common knowledge - When their benefits go the way of the Dodo bird - they will get serious about finding jobs

back in the early 1990s the Oregonian ran a series on how tough it was to make ends meet on welfare and food stamps for a family … A woman was quoted in the Oregonian about her expenses [which included cable TV - something we told our children at the time we could not afford and dog food for their family pet - which we also did not have due to the expense] … “My children have the right to have a dog and if their friends had cable TV then they should have the same access” all while complaining that the amount of support she received was inadequate to feed her and her two children …

This is my take … she is absolutely correct in that she had the “right to a pet and cable TV” … but to exercise that right was totally inappropriate and immoral . It is not correct to feed a pet and have more variety of programming on your TV when you cannot feed your children and meet your basic necessities - while expecting others to support you and complaining about the level of support you are receiveing. Reponsible people take care of the necesities [food, shelter and utilities] before they obtain the niceties [pets, cable, restaurant meals and trips to the movies]

To sate that does not make me against the poor I have been there myself - shopping at the Bishop’s Attic - second hand store for back to school shoping - no cable tv, no vacation trips, beans and rice, rice and beans - for variety ] nor hard hearted - I am not the rich - don’t make figures -I am not part of the 1 percent

 

[CMatt25]

You are unaware then CMatt.

I’d appreciate it Lisa if you would refrain from assuming what I am unaware of. I was a long time caregiver for my mother and am fully aware about Medicare. I have other family on Medicare. Because of your belittling tone of now twice falsely saying I was unaware about how Medicare works, I have no choice but to refrain from responding to you further on this thread as well.

 

[PJD1987]

I’d appreciate it Lisa if you would refrain from assuming what I am unaware of. I was a long time caregiver for my mother and am fully aware about Medicare. I have other family on Medicare. Because of your belittling tone of now twice falsely saying I was unaware about how Medicare works, I have no choice but to refrain from responding to you further on this thread as well.

I’m sorry you continue to be offended by us, CMatt. If I recall correctly, you had mentioned you weren’t coming back, but you are here. I still believe a lot of these insults are perceived and not really intended, heck, it just happened to me. Even though I don’t agree with many of your posts, I appreciate your comments and the opportunity to engage you in spirited debate.

But if we truly bother you that much, maybe this board is not for you?

God bless.

-Paul

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

“The problem is almost everything appears to be on the table for Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, and other Republicans except raising tax rates on those most able to afford tax increases.”-quote from CMatt

CMatt…I’m not rich by any means…and I can’t not afford taxes increases…and yet if the Bush tax cuts are not kept…I will be paying a total of 52% of my pay to the government…52%! I am already on a forebarence on my student loans…not sure where the extra money is going to come from…so no…I can’t afford it.

As for everyone else. I do get where some people can be against the total Republican agenda…as some do not seem to care for the poor as much as they should–which is a Catholic teaching. HOWEVER that being said…yes Rommney/Ryan are a good pick and a much better choice then Obama…because they are pro-life!

Obamacare is a joke…seriously…I have to pay a $90 copay for asthma medication and yet people “deserve” free contraception? Come on!

 

[LisaA]

I’d appreciate it Lisa if you would refrain from assuming what I am unaware of. I was a long time caregiver for my mother and am fully aware about Medicare. I have other family on Medicare. Because of your belittling tone again I have no choice but to refrain from responding to you further on this thread here as well.

CMatt, YOU said that either I was incorrect or you were unaware. Thus since I am correct regarding Medicare rules, you ARE unaware by your own admission. I simply pointed out which of the two options was valid.

You don’t like answering my posts because I pin you down with your erroneous statements and thus you cannot answer. As a caregiver you might have dealt with Medicare but I am not sure how that makes you an expert on Medicare regulations. I live with this every day and know of what I speak. A patient cannot go to a Medicare provider and cut a side deal or pay him more than Medicare allows without violating Medicare’s rules. The consequences of violating these rules are positively draconian and thus we are VERY careful to comply.

Lisa

 

[Semper_Zelare]

I apologize for jumping down your throat, I did read your post in a rather negative tone, it was hard to read it otherwise. In any event, discussing politics is what I enjoy, if you don’t thats fine, but why then are you a political science major? lol This is, in my estimation and that of many others, the most crucial election ever. The very future of our Church is at stake, the underpinning of this entire discussion is that very fact. That is why I am so passionate about getting Mr. Obama out of office, and dispelling the fear-mongering of the left when it comes to Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan.

I personally do think it is a sin of omission to “sit this one out”, if you will. I don’t understand how anyone could do that given the circumstances and the intrinsic evil embodied by the Democratic ticket, in light of all Catholic Teaching…on essentially every topic, most important being abortion, and closely linked with the persecution of our faith. I, unlike you, do not relish the thought of red martyrdom for my faith. Martyrdom is a grace I don’t wish to ever discover if I have or not. And the fact that it even has to be discussed is absolutely appalling in this country. These facts alone reinforce my thinking on the topic of voting.

I’m aware the Church does not have a definitive statement on this, it is one of those topics up for discussion, a decision of prudential judgment. In my estimation though, a vote for a 3rd party or a no-vote is a sin of omission by not doing all one can to vote intrinsic evil out of the White House and protecting Holy Mother Church in this country. Voting is our way of fighting for the faith right now. I hope to God we are successful and don’t need to fight any other way. But our efforts could use all the help we can get, and faithful Catholics who “sit this one out” are not helping the cause. To me, personally, its analogous to Pilate washing his hands of the issue and putting it on other people. I don’t think it’s prudent to sit on the sidelines and hope for everything to go well when one can be out on the front lines with the rest of the Church Militant fighting the good fight (aka voting for Mr. Romney).

It’s up to everyone else to make up their own mind on that. But I will continue to pray for those that are considering that option, that they will change their mind and see the good in Mr. Romney and the many reasons to vote for him.

God bless.

-Paul

I’m a political science major because I used to care about politics more than my faith. Now I’m tacking on a history major (because the Lord has blessed me very much academically). And I’m discerning diocesan priesthood or the Dominicans after college.

So… when people say you can’t hope for a moral “purist”… shouldn’t future seminarians be excluded? Also, Rick Santorum was definitely that purist in my mind. Any candidate that is a Knight of the Sovereign Military of Malta is morally righteous on everything as far as the Church is concerned (I think Santorum was the first candidate to have that distinction).

Anyways, I sincerely don’t believe Mitt Romney represents me. I think he is anti-Christian just like Obama. I’ll readily agree that Mitt Romney would harm Christians less, maybe a lot less than Obama. But I believe that Mitt Romney would still harm the Church. He’s a lesser evil in my opinion. So it really is unconscionable for me to vote for him.

I have about 20-25 links sitting on my computer (that I showed to Ishii in the past) which prove Mitt Romney is guilty of the sin of scandal… a scandal which involves tens of thousands of employees at Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts, and a lot of their patients.

Here’s the map:

Mitt Romney is in some part responsible for all the sin represented in Massachusetts on that map. Therefore I won’t vote for him. I am unable to vote for someone who has attacked the Church. If you attack the Church even once in your life that is one too many times for me… and Mitt Romney has. [To my knowledge not a single other Republican candidate has].

I’ll simply have to invest my faith in God for the survival of the Church. My battle for the Church will be fought with my small arms: my Rosary. The only hope America has is ending the two party monopoly (seeing as we couldn’t nominate someone that wasn’t a neo-con). Rick Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul were all hopes for America. But, since I can’t vote for them; I’ll vote for a 3rd party in hopes that we can have a multiple party system in this country.

 

[PJD1987]

I’m a political science major because I used to care about politics more than my faith. Now I’m tacking on a history major (because the Lord has blessed me very much academically). And I’m discerning diocesan priesthood or the Dominicans after college.

So… when people say you can’t hope for a moral “purist”… shouldn’t future seminarians be excluded? Also, Rick Santorum was definitely that purist in my mind. Any candidate that is a Knight of the Sovereign Military of Malta is morally righteous on everything as far as the Church is concerned (I think Santorum was the first candidate to have that distinction).

Anyways, I sincerely don’t believe Mitt Romney represents me. I think he is anti-Christian just like Obama. I’ll readily agree that Mitt Romney would harm Christians less, maybe a lot less than Obama. But I believe that Mitt Romney would still harm the Church. He’s a lesser evil in my opinion. So it really is unconscionable for me to vote for him.

I have about 20-25 links sitting on my computer (that I showed to Ishii in the past) which prove Mitt Romney is guilty of the sin of scandal… a scandal which involves tens of thousands of employees at Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts, and a lot of their patients.

Here’s the map:
http://knowledgecenter.csg.org/drupal/system/files/contraceptives_map.png
Mitt Romney is in some part responsible for all the sin represented in Massachusetts on that map. Therefore I won’t vote for him. I am unable to vote for someone who has attacked the Church. If you attack the Church even once in your life that is one too many times for me… and Mitt Romney has. [To my knowledge not a single other Republican candidate has].

I’ll simply have to invest my faith in God for the survival of the Church. My battle for the Church will be fought with my small arms: my Rosary. The only hope America has is ending the two party monopoly (seeing as we couldn’t nominate someone that wasn’t a neo-con). Rick Santorum, Gingrich, or Paul were all hopes for America. But, since I can’t vote for them; I’ll vote for a 3rd party in hopes that we can have a multiple party system in this country.

Semper,

That’s cool, I too was a Poli Sci/History double major! Good luck with your discernment process, as well.

I think your misgivings about Mitt Romney’s religion and stance on religious freedom is unfounded, however. In what way would Mitt Romney hurt the Church? There is no indication whatsoever that he would impose the type of sanctions Mr. Obama has on the Catholic Church. I am very well aware of the Catholic hospital ordeal you speak of. I should mention, I grew up in Rhode Island while all this was going on, so I have some first hand knowledge of what it is like to live in that part of the country, not knowing where you are from. If you’re from there, you know, if not…well…it’s very different from the rest of the country. Actually, as a Poli Sci major you’re probably very aware of this. But what I mean by that is that the liberal left wing Democratic machine runs everything.

As I said in a previous post, the Democratic Party had an 84% hold on seats in the Massachusetts Legislature and overrode Mr. Romney’s vetoes repeatedly. I would direct you to this: factcheck.org/2012/02/pac-strains-abortion-facts/

While, yes, Mr. Romney was in a moral conundrum, and had little choice under the pressure of his environment to make Catholic hospitals provide the morning-after pill. Even if he did veto it, it would have been passed anyway, so it did not particularly matter what he did or did not do regarding it. The fact that he got anything done in Massachusetts as a Republican Governor is nothing short of a miracle itself. There is no way around that. So these accusations that assign blame to Mr. Romney for the pervasive culture of death in Massachusetts, and the northeast, I feel are completely unfounded. And on a national scale, this type of situation would not repeat itself.

Mr. Romney is a sinner, just like you and I, but he is pro-life, and not anti-religion. There is nothing to indicate he would do anything remotely close to what Mr. Obama is doing, so the comparison is unfounded. I would simply say you are being unforgiving and harsh on Mr. Romney, when it is not necessary to be so.

As for the last part of your post. We will never have a multi party system in the U.S., we just won’t. To think we will is a pipe dream and doesn’t make it any closer to reality.

I will continue to pray that you will change your mind, and find it in your heart to forgive Mr. Romney, and fight with your ballot AND your rosary. We certainly need both.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[Ecoclimber]

Ask yourself why would Romney whose net worth is over $250 million, willing to run for president? A person would be hard press to spend that amount of money in a thousand lifetimes. Is any one concern that he is a Mormon? Do you know anything about Mormon doctrine? How much control they have over individuals?

Does anyone care that the GOP cut food stamps while maintaining subsidies for crop insurance companies. “Half of the food stamp beneficiaries are children, 17 percent are seniors, and unfortunately now 1.5 million households are veteran households that are receiving food stamps,” Senator Gillibrand said, referring not just to heat-and-eat participants, but the broader population of food stamp recipients.

Imagine being a parent who cannot feed your children the food they need to grow. It’s beneath this body to cut food assistance for those who are struggling the most among us."

The cuts target the so-called heat-and-eat initiative in which 14 states automatically make families eligible for more food aid if they receive even $1 in help paying their utility bills. The Congressional Budget Office estimated the decrease would amount to about $90 a month for an affected family, representing a quarter of its food budget.

I’m also sick and tired of entitlements to corporations at the expense of people. I am tired of corporate lobbyists influencing votes to pass tax loop holes and tax incentives for outsourcing our manufacturing and technical jobs to a Communist country, Red China. In case you don’t know, China is still a communist country.

In 2009, The Empire State Building, the city’s highest beacon and one of America’s symbols for free enterprise, displayed red and yellow lights over New York City as a shining monument honoring China’s communist revolution and to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the bloody communist takeover.

Has anyone watched Frontline Meltdown a non political view of the catastrophic meltdown in the financial and banking sectors. Be inform…** pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/**

 

[rlg94086]

Ask yourself why would Romney whose net worth is over $250 million, willing to run for president? A person would be hard press to spend that amount of money in a thousand lifetimes. Is any one concern that he is a Mormon? Do you know anything about Mormon doctrine? How much control they have over individuals?

:whacky:

Those comments completely void anything else you have to say.

 

[PJD1987]

:whacky:

Those comments completely void anything else you have to say.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Here Paul, this is from one of my sources… Boston Catholic Insider:
Boston Catholic Insider:

1. Romney had publicly claimed the bill did not apply to private religious hospitals
2. On December 7, 2005, Romney’s Department of Public Health said that Catholic and other privately-run hospitals could opt out of giving the morning-after pill to rape victims because of religious or moral objections
3. On December 8, 2005 Romney reversed the legal opinion of his own State Department of Public Health, instructing all Catholic hospitals and others to provide the chemical Plan B “morning after pill” to rape victims. He was quoted as saying, “I think, in my personal view, it’s the right thing for hospitals to provide information and access to emergency contraception to anyone who is a victim of rape.”

That’s the nail in the coffin for me. He might be a sinner; but his sin is worthy of temporal punishment… which will be not voting for him. Mitt Romney and everyone that passed Romneycare are the ones who incur the sin of the Catholic hospitals. The Catholic hospitals obviously don’t have free will under a contraception mandate.

Mitt Romney’s actions matched his beliefs, and his actions hurt the Church. He had the opportunity to continue to fight… which is what his state department told him to do (there were probably some faithful Catholics in it, let’s be honest)… and he didn’t feel like fighting for religious hospitals. His personal opinion sided with the legislature and against the Church.

And if he changed to pro-life since then, I don’t trust him.

That’s his track record on the Church. So that’s where I get he’ll do it again. He’s a non-Christian who has hurt Christians in the past. What’s going to stop him in the future? Has he claimed like St. Paul that he will refrain from persecuting the Church like he did in the past? No, he’s trying to cover it up and lie about it and claim it never happened.

So there’s proof I can’t trust him; he’s lying about what he did.

A lying Mormon who’s guilty of scandal and has attacked the Church. There’s a man who I will pray every single day becomes a Christian if he’s elected.

Furthermore, I live in Alabama. And people down here won’t vote for someone if they don’t pray and if they aren’t Christian. I bet I could get a lot of those people to vote third party. Because Obama and Romney don’t fit that bill. There’s a whole lot of talk down here about secession and third parties and theocracy. So you call pipe dreams pipe dreams.

There’s a Constitution Party bill board on the only 6 lane road in town… and there’s one Reagan billboard. But, I have yet to see an actual Republican billboard for this election.

P.S. to anyone.
If any of my comments about Mormons or not voting for a non-Christian make you want to call me a bigot. Go ahead! I guess I live in a bigoted place then. But it also has the highest percentage of people who attend Church WEEKLY (58% of everyone here goes WEEKLY to Church). So call us bigots all day long. ROLL TIDE!!!

 

[meltzerboy]

Meltzerboy you don’t understand the consequences. Note the bolded area…Obamacare cuts the providers etc. Here’s the problem, if you don’t pay people they will not provide you with drugs, services, or care. Already Medicare and Medicaid patients cannot find providers because the payment is SO abysmal that it’s not worth taking them. I will give you a real example. We used to have a pediatric surgery practice. It was not lucrative but the head doc loved working on babies and children. The practice gradually became almost entirely Medicaid. A $5000 surgery on a neonate, a baby with a heart the size of a walnut, paid about $700! At first the head doc just took less money so he could keep the practice going. Then he took NO money out of the practice to keep the other two doctors and assistants employed. Finally we closed the practice. We literally could not pay our bills and our people with a high Medicaid demographic.

So Obamacare works by lowering the already pathetic payments to doctors, by RATIONING care…something I think seniors might find of concern…and by trying to fund it with unrelated taxes such as on tanning salons and taking over student loans. Oh and they got rid of Medicare Advantage, something low income seniors LOVED because it gave them better coverage. Obamacare is a disaster in so many ways and if it’s not overturned it will die of its own weight I assure you.

Once seniors understand the terrible consequences of Obamacare and the possibilities of the Ryan plan, I think they will overwhelmingly support it. As it is, I believe seniors already support Ryan’s ideas. They HATE Obamacare trust me…I hear this every day with our patients. It will not take much education to convince them that Ryan/Romney have a lot better ideas for seniors.

As to the Ryan plan, the point is to cut costs and increase access for patients. You do this by competition, by giving seniors $$$$ to spend as THEY choose for the kind of plan they want. The premium support option gives MORE support to the lower income seniors and less financial benefit to the rich. You should honestly LOVE this plan if you think the poor should be given additional help. The Obamacare plan treats all seniors the same…rich or poor. Does that sound either fair or fiscally responsible?

I hope more of you on the Dem’s side will truly look into Obamacare and its terrible consequences.

Lisa

Thank you, Lisa, for this information. OK, I can accept the deficiencies in the Obama plan, but I’m still not sure the Ryan plan is any better. Would seniors be given enough money in the form of vouchers, granted that they cannot predict what amount of health expenses they might need in the future and what the cost will be in the future due to inflation? How can they be sure they would be choosing a reputable private insurance plan that will provide for their health needs, given all the deceptive advertising in the insurance industry and, I would assume, less government regulation? Will the competition between plans actually work to drive down the costs? If it doesn’t, seniors on fixed incomes will have to pay the additional costs out of pocket, wouldn’t they? I understand they can also buy into Medicare, but what will the latter be like under the Ryan plan? These are some of my concerns.

 

[PJD1987]

Here Paul, this is from one of my sources… Boston Catholic Insider:

That’s the nail in the coffin for me. He might be a sinner; but his sin is worthy of temporal punishment… which will be not voting for him. Mitt Romney and everyone that passed Romneycare are the ones who incur the sin of the Catholic hospitals. The Catholic hospitals obviously don’t have free will under a contraception mandate.

Mitt Romney’s actions matched his beliefs, and his actions hurt the Church. He had the opportunity to continue to fight… which is what his state department told him to do (there were probably some faithful Catholics in it, let’s be honest)… and he didn’t feel like fighting for religious hospitals. His personal opinion sided with the legislature and against the Church.

And if he changed to pro-life since then, I don’t trust him.

That’s his track record on the Church. So that’s where I get he’ll do it again. He’s a non-Christian who has hurt Christians in the past. What’s going to stop him in the future? Has he claimed like St. Paul that he will refrain from persecuting the Church like he did in the past? No, he’s trying to cover it up and lie about it and claim it never happened.

So there’s proof I can’t trust him; he’s lying about what he did.

A lying Mormon who’s guilty of scandal and has attacked the Church. There’s a man who I will pray every single day becomes a Christian if he’s elected.

Furthermore, I live in Alabama. And people down here won’t vote for someone if they don’t pray and if they aren’t Christian. I bet I could get a lot of those people to vote third party. Because Obama and Romney don’t fit that bill. There’s a whole lot of talk down here about secession and third parties and theocracy. So you call pipe dreams pipe dreams.

There’s a Constitution Party bill board on the only 6 lane road in town… and there’s one Reagan billboard. But, I have yet to see an actual Republican billboard for this election.

Again, I’m very well aware of what happened, and I’m not justifying his actions, I’m merely explaining them in context. I do believe you’re being extremely harsh on the man. He has said he will repeal Obamacare, he has said he is pro-life, he has said he supports the rights of the Church. He has the backing of many Catholic groups, he chose a devout 100% pro-life Catholic as his running mate. That has got to say something. If Paul Ryan thought for one second Mr. Romney was not sincere he would not have accepted the invitation to join the ticket.

I certainly would discourage you from recruiting anyone else to join you in your endeavor to vote 3rd party. I will continue to hope you change your mind.

I pray that you have compassion on the man, and if not able to trust him, to let Paul Ryan’s vote of confidence in him speak to you. Voting 3rd Party only helps Mr. Obama, and we certainly can agree that his re-election would be disastrous for the Church.

In the end, its your decision, but as long as you’re willing to talk about it I will continue to try to persuade you to vote for Mr. Romney. I pray that all Catholics come to that conclusion.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[_Abyssinia]

I’m not going to comment on Pope Benedict’s encyclical, but the first part of your post tells it like it is, I think. The cuts in Obama’s plan are for the drug and health-care providers, whereas in Ryan’s plan the cuts affect the recipients, that is, seniors. Why can’t others understand this essential difference? Your first paragraph about the vouchers is also a potentially serious problem for seniors if the competitive-provider idea doesn’t work. Current seniors will likely not be affected by the Ryan plan, but those not yet under Medicare, say, 50 to 60 year olds, may be in trouble under his plan, if it even is enacted, which I doubt.

Wyden-Ryan does not affect current seniors. ObamaTax guts medicare and takes money away from seniors by cutting Medicare Advantage payment rates by 2017 an average of $3700 for every person. 27% below what recipients would receive with out ObamaTax. If they lose $3700 annually in Medicare from 65 years old until their death at 78 they would lose $44000 in benefits and medicare spending would increase $25 billion with ObamaTax

 

[CMatt25]

Does anyone care that the GOP cut food stamps…

Imagine being a parent who cannot feed your children the food they need to grow. It’s beneath this body to cut food assistance for those who are struggling the most among us."

I’m also sick and tired of entitlements to corporations at the expense of people.

Yes I do.

I agree.

And yes I am sick and tired of it too.

 

[Ecoclimber]

:whacky:

Those comments completely void anything else you have to say.

Absolutely not! It’s apparent you don’t know much about Mormon Doctrine.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Ad from Romney regarding medicare

youtube.com/watch?v=l4gPvToKTWU

You paid into Medicare for years. Every paycheck. Now, when you need it, Obama has cut $716 billion from Medicare. Why? To pay for Obamacare. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed healthcare is going into a massive new government program that’s not for you. The Romney-Ryan plan protects Medicare benefits for today’s seniors and strengthens the plan for the next generation

 

[Ecoclimber]

**DEMOCRIPS VS. REBLOODICANS
**
Ventura likens the political parties to street gangs—calling them “thugs in Brooks Brothers suits”. He invokes admonitions by Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and George Washington about the “evils” of political parties. And he suggests that regardless of political party, by the time a candidate is elected he or she is “bought and paid for” by lobbyists and special interests.
open.salon.com/blog/just-walt/2012/06/21/jesse_ventura_on_democrips_and_rebloodricans