Paul Ryan!!

[Scott_Lafrance]

Paul Ryan has been a long time member of the Atlas Society, a group that advocates the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Rand is a 20th-century novelist and atheist best known for her philosophy that is centered on the idea that selfishness is “virtue.” Jesus and two millenniums of Catholic theology teach the opposite that selfishness is “wrong.”

examiner.com/article/ryan-vp-pick-puts-catholic-bishops-a-real-quandary

So what? Who is more selfish, a person who risks and works hard and desires to keep what he earns, or a person who risks nothing, chases nothing, produces nothing, and demands to have a portion of that which he hasn’t earned?

THe selfish person is the one who thinks that he is entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor…and the politician who enables that sort of thinking.

 

[Brendan]

That is phenominal too. There are a few phenominal ROEs, but unfortunately not that many.

Actually, all it means is that the companies have been profitable year after year. Sustained profitability is all that really ROE shows

For example, Apple is at 44%, Apple has been had a sustainable profit over time. It shows in the ROE.

You haven’t show anything more than what is commonly known in the market, that ExxonMobil gets a relatively small cut of a large renevue stream, and has done so on a pretty regular basis.

Given that, I fail to see why a company such as ExxonMobil should be singled out for it’s profit scorn over it’s profits or, yes even ROE. When other companies do more for profit ‘gouging’ (such as McDonalds or Coke) or have higher ROE’s

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Romney hides his money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying the little he does has to pay already in taxes. The people “pulling the wagon” own more wealth than the rest of the country put together. Half the people not paying taxes is because they don’t make enough money, cmon! Does any of this matter to you or are you just the type that is willing to vote for anything that isn’t Obama?

So, if you worked your whole life and were successful, and then the goverment wanted to take more than half of what you rightfully earned, who wouldn’t use all legal means to pay less in taxes?

 

[DeniseNY]

So what? Who is more selfish, a person who risks and works hard and desires to keep what he earns, or a person who risks nothing, chases nothing, produces nothing, and demands to have a portion of that which he hasn’t earned?

THe selfish person is the one who thinks that he is entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor…and the politician who enables that sort of thinking.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Yes I do.

I agree.

And yes I am sick and tired of it too.

Ryan’s plan does not cut food stamps. It ony cuts the year over year increase.

 

[stevegravy]

So what? Who is more selfish, a person who risks and works hard and desires to keep what he earns, or a person who risks nothing, chases nothing, produces nothing, and demands to have a portion of that which he hasn’t earned?

THe selfish person is the one who thinks that he is entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor…and the politician who enables that sort of thinking.

Truer words never spoken. Perhaps if people were not so much concerned with the amount being given as to helping the recipient earn their own way maybe progress on what we call “poverty” could really happen.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Truer words never spoken. Perhaps if people were not so much concerned with the amount being given as to helping the recipient earn their own way maybe progress on what we call “poverty” could really happen.

The so-called “social justice” programs of federal entitlement don’t help the poor. They make them dependency slaves to the federal government. You cannot free someone from poverty by making them a slave to other people’s money.

Plus, one of the key components of charity, real charity, is the capacity of the recipient of assistance to be able to thank the giver of assistance and make restitution, if possible. Federal entitlement spending makes this literally impossible. If I see a hungry man on the street and I give him a sandwich, or take him to a half-way house for some food, a shower, and a bed…he has the ability to thank me and the people who help him. If and when he gets on his feet, he has the ability to volunteer and that place and reciprocate the help that was given to him by helping someone else. THIS IS TRUE CHARITY. I am not doing it because I am looking for thanks or reciprocation. It is not for my benefit. The ability to thank the person who helps you is for the benefit of the person being helped.

For the welfare, food stamp, Section 8 housing, etc…recipient. Who does he go to to say thank you? There is no thanks involved. In fact, a significant portion of these recipients will get overtly hostile if you even suggest that these benefits are taken away. For some reason, they think that they have done something in their lives that getting this money that they haven’t earned is their God-given RIGHT.

That is the problem with the Democrat’s version of “social justice”. There is no justice in it, not by any sane definition of the word.

 

[DeniseNY]

The so-called “social justice” programs of federal entitlement don’t help the poor. They make them dependency slaves to the federal government.

And provide a solid voting bloc for the Democrat party.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And provide a solid voting bloc for the Democrat party.

Exactly. Democrats are buying people’s votes with other people’s money. It is a ponzi scheme of proportions that Bernie Madoff could only fantasize about. In fact, it isn’t a ponzi scheme, it is the very definition of racketeering. The federal government is the Mafia with badges.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And provide a solid voting bloc for the Democrat party.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The so-called “social justice” programs of federal entitlement don’t help the poor. They make them dependency slaves to the federal government. You cannot free someone from poverty by making them a slave to other people’s money.

That is the problem with the Democrat’s version of “social justice”. There is no justice in it, not by any sane definition of the word.

You are dreaming if you think that Romney is going to abolish all those programs as soon as he is sworn in, if he wins the election.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You are dreaming if you think that Romney is going to abolish all those programs as soon as he is sworn in, if he wins the election.

Of course he isn’t. Even Reagan couldn’t get rid of some of the programs he wanted to get rid of, and he had a lot more public support than Romney has.

What Romney can do, however, is stop the wildness in the spending, slow it down. There is something to having a good head for business, which apparently he has. And he apparently has organizational talents. If he is able, within a couple of years, to even jar the “sidelined” money into the marketplace, eliminate some really egregious abuses and show progress, then he will likely be able to accomplish a lot more of what he might want to do.

At least one can hope for that.

What a hoot it would be if Romney actually did improve the lot of those on the lowest rungs of the ladder. We know Obama won’t, but it would sure be something if Romney did.

 

[stevegravy]

You are dreaming if you think that Romney is going to abolish all those programs as soon as he is sworn in, if he wins the election.

It is true what you say but unless the big bugs in Washington begin reforming the way we do welfare programs then we are doing a great disservice to the welfare recipients and will eventually destroy the country.

 

[stevegravy]

And provide a solid voting bloc for the Democrat party.

Which is why I vote yes on the poll maybe it will fire up the rhetoric, Steyn said it best.

This election represents the last exit ramp before the death spiral. (Yes, yes, I know: too long for a campaign button.) Obama has spent the last four years making things worse. More debt, more dependency, more delusion. For Act Two, he’s now touting the auto bailout as a model for . . . everything! “I want to do the same thing with manufacturing jobs, not just in the auto industry, but in every industry.” In the last three years, he has “created” 2.6 million new jobs — a number that does not even keep up with the number of (legal) immigrants who arrive each month. Obama does not “create” jobs, he creates disabled people: In the same period as 2.6 million Americans signed on with new employers, 3.1 million signed on at the Social Security Disability Office. Obama is the first president in history to create more disabled people than workers. He is the biggest creator of disabled people on the planet. He has disabled more people than the Japanese tsunami. More Americans have been disabled by Obama than have been given cancer by Mitt Romney. **“Ask yourself, ‘Are you more disabled now than you were four years ago?’ Obama 2012.” **Followed by the wheelchair logo with the Obama “O” where the wheel should be. In the Democrats’ Dependistan, the wheelchair ramp is downhill all the way.
The whole op-ed here.
I am bothered that Romney’s insipid message does not rise to the challenge this nation faces.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

You are dreaming if you think that Romney is going to abolish all those programs as soon as he is sworn in, if he wins the election.

Even though I tend to agree with the previousposters, it would be unjust to “abolish” these programs. The fact appears to be that we have a multi-generational class in poverty throughout the United States. Removing these programs without warning would harm innocents.

Just like the massive overhaul of Healthcare was imprudent, so would a massive change in governemtn assistance.

My ideal move forward on both fronts would be to use the scientific method, Catholic social teaching, and basic incentives to implement changes to these policies to greater independence and greater subsidiarity.

Move the funding from federal all the way down to county and city program by program with metrics. Get the data, make the change and then find out if the change is having the effect we want. If no, roll back. If yes, accelerate.

A final problem is the fiscal one. We have a duty to provide for the least among us, but not with the money of future generations. There needs to be a national discussion of what truly is “needy” and what is not. There neeeds to be a national discussion on just what it is we require from government and what we can afford. For example, imho College is not a requirement, but imho again children’s nutrition is (getting decent food into every young american).

The fiscal problem has moral dimensions and impacts on how we can extend a moral presence across the oceans. More than gloabl warming, massive deficit spending could end up hurting the poorest of the poor far more. They will be hit hardest if the financial tsunami hits.

Obviously there are institutional problems that require strong leadership to overcome, but we appear to be accelerating like a bullet in the other direction for the last four years.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

You are dreaming if you think that Romney is going to abolish all those programs as soon as he is sworn in, if he wins the election.

Nope. No politician has the stones to protect the producers in the country and make more entitlement slaves. Entitlement slaves are useful eaters as long as they vote. It will all come crashing down as soon as the producers revolt and refuse to be robbed to feed the masses.

 

[bellasbane]

**It can never be repeated enough. Paul Ryan’s economic philosophy is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. Regardless of what he claims, it is based on the writings of the the atheist, Ayn Rand. **

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are,” he told the group. “It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” - Paul Ryan

"[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.” - Paul Ryan

“Ayn Rand, more than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and this to me is what matters most,” - Paul Ryan

youtube.com/watch?v=WmW19uoyuO8
facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1188874849092
news.yahoo.com/paul-ryan-book-club-shrugging-off-ayn-rand-100022763–abc-news-politics.html?_esi=1

Catholic priests and scholars point out that Paul Ryan’s budget is immoral and in opposition to Catholic tradition.

“…your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.” - Thomas J. Reese, S.J. et. al. [Statement signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests, numerous members of the Theology and other departments including History, Government, Philosophy, School of Foreign Service and School of Nursing & Health Studies.]

“This budget turns centuries of Catholic social teaching on its head. These Catholic leaders and many Catholics in the pews are tired of faith being misused to bless an immoral agenda.” - John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator at Faith in Public Life

huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/paul-ryan-challenged-by-georgetown-faculty_n_1449437.html
huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/paul-ryan-choice-lifts-up_b_1766818.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
[faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/](http://www.faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/)

Paul Ryan is either stupid or lying if he thinks he can invoke Thomas Aquinas to defend capitalism

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,” who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he says.

Thomas Aquinas was not an individualist nor was he a capitalist and he wrote about a lot more than just the need for divine revelation. He also wrote specifically about economics. His economic theory was the basis for the guild system of the middle ages and continues to be the backbone of Catholic economic philosophy today. This is neither capitalism nor communism - but a third approach based on the idea that the workers and producers of goods should own and regulate their own labor and industry - not the government and not financiers like Bain Capital.

Aquinas is most famous for his argument that that price one may legitimately charge for a product or service should be a “just price” - one that is NOT based on supply and demand, but on what it cost to produce a good and what is needed to maintain the dignity of workers and their families.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_price

Paul Ryan is a Catholic, but he does not represent the traditions of the Church that have been part of Catholic culture for generations. Don’t let him fool you. He wants to sound smart and Catholic by throwing out the name of Thomas Aquinas - but words are cheap. Not matter what he says, his is budget plan is Randian - not Catholic.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

**It can never be repeated enough. Paul Ryan’s economic philosophy is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. Regardless of what he claims, it is based on the writings of the the atheist, Ayn Rand. **

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are,” he told the group. “It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” - Paul Ryan

"[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.” - Paul Ryan

“Ayn Rand, more than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and this to me is what matters most,” - Paul Ryan

youtube.com/watch?v=WmW19uoyuO8
facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1188874849092
news.yahoo.com/paul-ryan-book-club-shrugging-off-ayn-rand-100022763–abc-news-politics.html?_esi=1

Catholic priests and scholars point out that Paul Ryan’s budget is immoral and in opposition to Catholic tradition.

“…your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.” - Thomas J. Reese, S.J. et. al. [Statement signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests, numerous members of the Theology and other departments including History, Government, Philosophy, School of Foreign Service and School of Nursing & Health Studies.]

“This budget turns centuries of Catholic social teaching on its head. These Catholic leaders and many Catholics in the pews are tired of faith being misused to bless an immoral agenda.” - John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator at Faith in Public Life

huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/paul-ryan-challenged-by-georgetown-faculty_n_1449437.html
huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/paul-ryan-choice-lifts-up_b_1766818.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
[faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/](http://www.faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/)

Paul Ryan is either stupid or lying if he thinks he can invoke Thomas Aquinas to defend capitalism

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,” who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he says.

Thomas Aquinas was not an individualist nor was he a capitalist and he wrote about a lot more than just the need for divine revelation. He also wrote specifically about economics. His economic theory was the basis for the guild system of the middle ages and continues to be the backbone of Catholic economic philosophy today. This is neither capitalism nor communism - but a third approach based on the idea that the workers and producers of goods should own and regulate their own labor and industry - not the government and not financiers like Bain Capital.

Aquinas is most famous for his argument that that price one may legitimately charge for a product or service should be a “just price” - one that is NOT based on supply and demand, but on what it cost to produce a good and what is needed to maintain the dignity of workers and their families.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_price

Paul Ryan is a Catholic, but he does not represent the traditions of the Church that have been part of Catholic culture for generations. Don’t let him fool you. He wants to sound smart and Catholic by throwing out the name of Thomas Aquinas - but words are cheap. Not matter what he says, his is budget plan is Randian - not Catholic.

:yawn:

You should come up with some new material.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Catholic priests and scholars point out that Paul Ryan’s budget is immoral and in opposition to Catholic tradition.

“…your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.” - Thomas J. Reese, S.J. et. al. [Statement signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests, numerous members of the Theology and other departments including History, Government, Philosophy, School of Foreign Service and School of Nursing & Health Studies.]

“This budget turns centuries of Catholic social teaching on its head. These Catholic leaders and many Catholics in the pews are tired of faith being misused to bless an immoral agenda.” - John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator at Faith in Public Life

huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/paul-ryan-challenged-by-georgetown-faculty_n_1449437.html
huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/paul-ryan-choice-lifts-up_b_1766818.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
[faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/](http://www.faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/)

Oook! Huffington Post, Georgetown profs.

Rather than citing these questionable opinions which had no foundation when expressed, one may reasonably ask one who poses the opinions what the foundational basis for his/her own conclusions are.

What are they? In what specific ways is Ryan’s plan immoral? No generalities or talking points please. Exact specifics.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

**It can never be repeated enough. Paul Ryan’s economic philosophy is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. Regardless of what he claims, it is based on the writings of the the atheist, Ayn Rand. **

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are,” he told the group. “It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” - Paul Ryan

"[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.” - Paul Ryan

“Ayn Rand, more than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and this to me is what matters most,” - Paul Ryan

youtube.com/watch?v=WmW19uoyuO8
facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1188874849092
news.yahoo.com/paul-ryan-book-club-shrugging-off-ayn-rand-100022763–abc-news-politics.html?_esi=1

Catholic priests and scholars point out that Paul Ryan’s budget is immoral and in opposition to Catholic tradition.

“…your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.” - Thomas J. Reese, S.J. et. al. [Statement signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests, numerous members of the Theology and other departments including History, Government, Philosophy, School of Foreign Service and School of Nursing & Health Studies.]

“This budget turns centuries of Catholic social teaching on its head. These Catholic leaders and many Catholics in the pews are tired of faith being misused to bless an immoral agenda.” - John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator at Faith in Public Life

huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/paul-ryan-challenged-by-georgetown-faculty_n_1449437.html
huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/paul-ryan-choice-lifts-up_b_1766818.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
[faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/](http://www.faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/)

Paul Ryan is either stupid or lying if he thinks he can invoke Thomas Aquinas to defend capitalism

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,” who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he says.

Thomas Aquinas was not an individualist nor was he a capitalist and he wrote about a lot more than just the need for divine revelation. He also wrote specifically about economics. His economic theory was the basis for the guild system of the middle ages and continues to be the backbone of Catholic economic philosophy today. This is neither capitalism nor communism - but a third approach based on the idea that the workers and producers of goods should own and regulate their own labor and industry - not the government and not financiers like Bain Capital.

Aquinas is most famous for his argument that that price one may legitimately charge for a product or service should be a “just price” - one that is NOT based on supply and demand, but on what it cost to produce a good and what is needed to maintain the dignity of workers and their families.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_price

Paul Ryan is a Catholic, but he does not represent the traditions of the Church that have been part of Catholic culture for generations. Don’t let him fool you. He wants to sound smart and Catholic by throwing out the name of Thomas Aquinas - but words are cheap. Not matter what he says, his is budget plan is Randian - not Catholic.

:yawn:

While I do think America has too much of a binary system (gov’t and market) and not enough third sector like unions and nonprofits, etc active, you can’t just spew out information the left gave you when Ryan’s own bishop was fine with his budget and Cardinal Dolan was at the very least neutral about it.