Paul Ryan!!

[meltzerboy]

Nor do you. Onward Ayn Rand? Her teachings are demonic! Her philosophy is based on godless, hedonistic, narcissistic values and an evolutionary lifestyle based on the survival of the fittest. If you believe in her teaching, I would question your Christian faith! You don’t speak for me nor do you tell me how to vote. Your analysis is completely wrong and misguided. The the GOP knows it needs the Christian vote to be elected in order to deconstruct the American government. So they initiate a party platform that throws in two items to secure the gullible Christian vote: opposing abortion and same sex marriage. The rest of GOP platform consists of corporate rights over individual rights and the overall values of the common good. The GOP party is antithesis to Christian values. The Democratic Platform is also antithesis to Christian values as well in regards to same sex marriage ans abortion. Catholic social teaching requires a Catholic not to vote for either party. It would be morally unconscionable to do so.

Pope Benedict XVI encyclical, Caritas in Veritate…
"Such development requires a transcendent vision of the person, it needs God: without him, development is either denied, or entrusted exclusively to humanity, which falls into the trap of thinking it can bring about its own salvation, and ends up promoting a dehumanized form of development. Only through an encounter with God are we able to see in the other something more than just another creature, to recognize the divine image** in the other, thus truly coming to discover him or her and to mature in a love that ‘becomes concern and care for the other**."

The encyclical raises up another essential lynchpin of Catholic social morality, *the common good.*** "Another important consideration is the common good**. To love someone is to desire that person’s good and to take effective steps to secure it. Besides the good of the individual there is a good that is linked to living in society: the common good. It is the good of ‘all of us’… It is a good that is sought not for its own sake, but for the people who belong to the social community.

Thirdly, the encyclical clearly articulates the moral disjunction that erupts when social “progress” is divorced from a consistent ethic of life. It is impossible to address the issue of poverty without addressing abortion and euthanasia, among other life issues. As Pope Benedict XVI says, “…*the social question has become a radically anthropological question." (75) "While the poor of the world continue knocking on the doors of the rich, the world of affluence runs the risk of no longer hearing those knocks, on account of a conscience that can no longer distinguish what is human***.” **

Jesus stated emphatically and the Apostles taught and We will be judge on the following:
**Matt 25:34-36 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ **

**James 5:1-6
5:1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. **

Just as in the case of Romney’s Mormonism, the fact Ayn Rand happens to be an atheist is irrelevant. Her social and economic philosophy should be evaluated on its own terms, which I understand are not so generous with respect to the poor and very much so with respect to the wealthy. Apparently, Ryan is still influenced by her philosophy, which may be problematic.

 

[gritheb]

Much of what you’ve written is YOUR opinion and your entitled to it. But the bottom line is how much can we help the poor when the country is bankrupt? It’s like the argument that the Church should sell all it’s art and feed the poor. Well that’ll work for a few weeks till the money’s gone. Then what? The poor will still be there…but the art enjoyed by many won’t be.
To help the poor we first must get back on our feet. When the economy is sound the givers start to give, especially in the middle class. I don’t buy into class warfare. The rich will remain rich no matter what you do because many of them are smart, hard working acheivers. We don’t want to attack the acheivers, we want to encourage them. Raising taxes on the wealthy will just chase them away and then you’ve got nothing. Ask England and France?

I don’t like the direction this country is going. Socially and Economically. I have grandkids that I care very much for. I don’t want to see them paying for poor judgement at the polls. We made a mistake four years ago. It’s time to rethink that vote.

As a Catholic, I am concerned when the government mandates anything that contradicts my faith. In all dictartorships it starts with the little things and works it way up. These execetive orders bypass the framers intention of the rule of laws passed by our Congress and signed into law by our president (pass and present).

Let’s not forget the huge impact that Obamacare will have on our nation. It’s just not substanable. Rationed care and “death panels” are not an obscure possibility.
Has anyone heard what the citizens in Europe are saying about their health care.
It’s horrible.

That’s my two cents. (please excuse the spelling I wrote this in a hurry.)

 

[stinkcat_14]

That’s bizarre. The School of Salamanca basically are the ones who came up with the free market theory.

One problem is that history of economic thought courses have really fallen by the wayside. I was fortunate to take one as an undergraduate, but I don’t think one was offered in graduate school. In the department where I teach today, I don’t believe we have offered that course in the 20 years I have been in the department. If we did offer it, it was probably offered by the professor who offers obscure courses in the hopes that they are cancelled.

 

[meltzerboy]

Wyden-Ryan does not affect current seniors. ObamaTax guts medicare and takes money away from seniors by cutting Medicare Advantage payment rates by 2017 an average of $3700 for every person. 27% below what recipients would receive with out ObamaTax. If they lose $3700 annually in Medicare from 65 years old until their death at 78 they would lose $44000 in benefits and medicare spending would increase $25 billion with ObamaTax

Abyssinia, I know the Ryan plan does not affect current seniors, and stated so. It’s the next generation, 55-60 or so, that it will affect. I’m not even defending Obamacare, but what I am concerned about, as I remarked in another post, is the viability of the Ryan plan.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Much of what you’ve written is YOUR opinion and your entitled to it. But the bottom line is how much can we help the poor when the country is bankrupt? To help the poor we first must get back on our feet. …

I agree. Apparently several others who agree with you expressed similar sentiments in the last few pages.

I don’t buy into class warfare. The rich will remain rich no matter what you do because many of them are smart, hard working acheivers.

In fairness, many of them became wealthy partly (not entirely) becuase they were given enormous breaks, early on, due to family/social connections among the already-rich – connections which many not rich do not have access to.

Let’s not forget the huge impact that Obamacare will have on our nation. It’s just not substanable.

Agree.

That’s my two cents.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[_Abyssinia]

**It can never be repeated enough. Paul Ryan’s economic philosophy is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. Regardless of what he claims, it is based on the writings of the the atheist, Ayn Rand. **

“I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are,” he told the group. “It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” - Paul Ryan

"[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.” - Paul Ryan

“Ayn Rand, more than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and this to me is what matters most,” - Paul Ryan

youtube.com/watch?v=WmW19uoyuO8
facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1188874849092
news.yahoo.com/paul-ryan-book-club-shrugging-off-ayn-rand-100022763–abc-news-politics.html?_esi=1

Brit Hume, FOX News: What is your view of Ayn Rand? Are you an Ayn Rand disciple?

Rep. Paul Ryan: No. I really enjoyed her novels, Atlas Shrugged in particular. It triggered my interest in economics. That’s where I got into studying economics. That’s why I wanted to study the whole field of economics.

I later in life learned about what her philosophy was, it’s called Objectivism. It’s something that I completely disagree with. It’s an atheistic philosophy. But I think what she’s done is she’s showed – she came from communism. She showed how the pitfalls of socialism can hurt the economy, can hurt people, families and individuals and that to me was very compelling novels. Which says freedom, free enterprise, liberty is so much better than totalitarianism and socialism. Those novels, I thought were interesting. But her philosophy, which is different, is something I just don’t agree with.

realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/14/paul_ryan_rejects_ayn_rands_objectivism_philosophy.html

“I, like millions of young people in America, read Rand’s novels when I was young. I enjoyed them,” Ryan says. “They spurred an interest in economics, in the Chicago School and Milton Friedman,” a subject he eventually studied as an undergraduate at Miami University in Ohio. “But it’s a big stretch to suggest that a person is therefore an Objectivist.”

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,” who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he says.

nationalreview.com/articles/297023/ryan-shrugged-robert-costa

Catholic priests and scholars point out that Paul Ryan’s budget is immoral and in opposition to Catholic tradition.

“…your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Her call to selfishness and her antagonism toward religion are antithetical to the Gospel values of compassion and love.” - Thomas J. Reese, S.J. et. al. [Statement signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests, numerous members of the Theology and other departments including History, Government, Philosophy, School of Foreign Service and School of Nursing & Health Studies.]

“This budget turns centuries of Catholic social teaching on its head. These Catholic leaders and many Catholics in the pews are tired of faith being misused to bless an immoral agenda.” - John Gehring, Catholic Outreach Coordinator at Faith in Public Life

huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/24/paul-ryan-challenged-by-georgetown-faculty_n_1449437.html
huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/paul-ryan-choice-lifts-up_b_1766818.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012
[faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/](http://www.faith(name removed by moderator)ubliclife.org/newsroom/press/catholic-leaders-to-rep-paul-ryan-stop-distorting-church-teaching-to-justify-immoral-budget/)

Two Bishops criticized the Wyden-Ryan plan, Bishop Pates and Bishop Blaire. Bishop Earl criticized those 2 Bishops criticism of the budget and Bishop Naumann has said solutions that place emphasis in enrolling people in government programs have been ‘tried for decades’ and failed

Bishop Morlino says of the plan

Congressman Ryan has made his prudential judgment about how best to serve the long-term needs of the poor. He has done that in accord with Catholic principles. I don’t have to approve his decision or his budget or anything else. What I do approve of is that he is a responsible Catholic layman who understands his mission and carries it out very responsibly. I feel very strongly about that. The details of his solution are not mine to approve or disapprove, that’s not my field.

my emphases

Paul Ryan is either stupid or lying if he thinks he can invoke Thomas Aquinas to defend capitalism

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,” who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he says.

Thomas Aquinas was not an individualist nor was he a capitalist and he wrote about a lot more than just the need for divine revelation. He also wrote specifically about economics. His economic theory was the basis for the guild system of the middle ages and continues to be the backbone of Catholic economic philosophy today. This is neither capitalism nor communism - but a third approach based on the idea that the workers and producers of goods should own and regulate their own labor and industry - not the government and not financiers like Bain Capital.

Aquinas is most famous for his argument that that price one may legitimately charge for a product or service should be a “just price” - one that is NOT based on supply and demand, but on what it cost to produce a good and what is needed to maintain the dignity of workers and their families.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_price

Paul Ryan is a Catholic, but he does not represent the traditions of the Church that have been part of Catholic culture for generations. Don’t let him fool you. He wants to sound smart and Catholic by throwing out the name of Thomas Aquinas - but words are cheap. Not matter what he says, his is budget plan is Randian - not Catholic.

If the plan was randian Bishop Morlino would not of Ryan has done this in accordance with Catholic principals

 

[Elizabeth502]

Onward Ayn Rand? Her teachings are demonic! Her philosophy is based on godless, hedonistic, narcissistic values and an evolutionary lifestyle based on the survival of the fittest. If you believe in her teaching, I would question your Christian faith!

Again, to clarify: you missed the sarcasm. It’s the Democratic social policy that = Onward Ayn Rand, not mine. No, I don’t believe in her teaching. However, the underpinnings of the Democratic Sexual Expression to the Max program, and your apparent agreement with that program (which is inextricably linked to voting for their elections) makes one question how you do or do not understand Catholic social teaching.

You don’t speak for me

Nor do you speak for me, nor quite evidently do you speak for Catholic social teaching, which does not support the narcissistic, hedonistic, godless values perpetrated by Democratic social programs. If you think those support Catholic social teaching, you need to a LOT of reading.

 

[meltzerboy]

Meltzerboy, thank you for the thoughtful response. Your point is well taken as we can’t know what will happen if Medicare is changed to a voucher system. But the positive side is that this is a gradual transition and time to work out the bugs rather than the immediate cuts, rationing and mandates of Obamacare.

Now I think you understand the idea that the vouchers pay for an insurance plan of the senior’s choice, but the Dems have been spinning it “You will only get $X for your HEALTHCARE!!! What if you need an expensive operation? blah blah blah.” I think you get the gist of the opposition’s attack. It’s ridiculous but sadly many people are asleep at the wheel and don’t get the whole story.

Will the vouchers be enough to pay for good coverage? I think that amount can be calculated, based on actuarial models that set premiums in the commercial insurance business. I have heard various figures tossed out but in reality were this system be put in place, everything would have to be recalculated at the time. I think the important concept is to provide the same or better coverage than current Medicare Parts A through D.

Of course there will always be spin and false information used to sell a product…AARP is the MASTER of deception for example. We cannot prevent people from making mistakes but again they make mistakes now. The best defense though is to have multiple companies vying for this very lucrative business. I assure you the insurance companies NOW fight hard for the Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement patients. The worst situation is a “one size fits all” program as is preferred by the Left. Further I think we tend to demean our seniors ability to research and discern what works best for them as if older Americans were unable to read through the spin of a glossy brochure. Speaking from the perspective of dealing with seniors every day in our clinic, I am constantly amazed at how carefully they do research healthcare issues, treatments, and payment plans…haha they have lots of TIME and most of them are pretty computer savvy. This sophistication is only going to increase as the next generation moves into the Medicare age bracket.

Further I hope the eventual plan also has elements of tort reform, national competition, and other competitive ideas that will actually address the two goals…increase access and decrease (hahaha I guess we can’t hope for that) or at least hold the line on increased cost

Lisa

Thanks, Lisa. As I see it, the Ryan plan, which will undoubtedly undergo numerous modifications as time goes by, is risky and potentially costly (where is all this voucher money coming from in a sluggish economy?), while the Obama plan may be safer but is also deficient in many respects. I’m not so confident as you are that seniors, or most other people for that matter, will be able to wade through all the false promises of the for-profit insurance companies to determine which plan is best for them, even those who are computer and mathematically savvy, and not everyone is, particularly the working poor. The Ryan plan seems to be a bold social experiment, which may be needed; however, let’s keep in mind that the participants of the experiment are real-life people.

 

[stevegravy]

Again, to clarify: you missed the sarcasm. It’s the Democratic social policy that = **Onward **Ayn Rand, not mine. No, I don’t believe in her teaching. However, the underpinnings of the Democratic Sexual Expression to the Max program, and your apparent agreement with that program (which is inextricably linked to voting for their elections) makes one question how you do or do not understand Catholic social teaching.

Nor do you speak for me, nor quite evidently do you speak for Catholic social teaching, which does not support the narcissistic, hedonistic, godless values perpetrated by Democratic social programs. If you think those support Catholic social teaching, you need to a LOT of reading.

Is it not Obama’s campaign meme/theme FORWARD…… like into the jaws of death rode the 600.

 

[_Abyssinia]

A Romney first: over 40% of youth vote back him

For the first time since he began running for president, Republican Mitt Romney has the support of over 40 percent of America’s youth vote, a troubling sign for President Obama who built his 2008 victory with the overwhelming support of younger, idealistic voters.

Pollster John Zogby of JZ Analytics told Secrets Tuesday that Romney received 41 percent in his weekend poll of 1,117 likely voters, for the first time crossing the 40 percent mark. What’s more, he said that Romney is the only Republican of those who competed in the primaries to score so high among 18-29 year olds.

“This is the first time I am seeing Romney’s numbers this high among 18-29 year olds,” said Zogby. “This could be trouble for Obama who needs every young voter he can get.”

Zogby helped Secrets dig deeper into his weekend poll, which we reported on earlier. The poll had Romney and Obama tied at 46 percent.

Zogby has been especially interested in the youth vote this election. In 2008, 66 percent chose Obama over Sen. John McCain,the highest percentage for a Democrat in three decades. But their desire for hope and change has turned to disillusionment and unemployment. Zogby calls them “CENGAs” for “college-educated, not going anywhere.”

In his latest poll, Obama receives just 49 percent of the youth vote when pitted against Romney, who received 41 percent. In another question, the independent candidacy of Gary Johnson is included, and here Obama wins 50 percent, Romney 38 percent and Johnson 5 percent.

But while taking Johnson out of the equation in the past has seen a surge in support for Obama, now the numbers for Romney–and undecideds–increase.

Zogby speculates that Romney’s selection of 42-year-old Rep. Paul Ryan helped turn more younger voters to him. “It could be his youthfulness,” said Zogby of Ryan. Plus, he said, more younger voters are becoming libertarian, distrustful of current elected officials and worried that they are going to get stuck with the nation’s looming fiscal bill.

“They want change,” said Zogby

washingtonexaminer.com/a-romney-first-over-40-of-youth-vote-back-him/article/2504893#.UCvK_PdmNu8

 

[DeSanto]

You do realize that is what Obama is doing with Medicare and Medicaid - right?

? Not sure what you mean? I am talking about people taking advantage of tax loopholes and government assistance food stamps.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Thanks, Lisa. As I see it, the Ryan plan, which will undoubtedly undergo numerous modifications as time goes by, is risky and potentially costly (where is all this voucher money coming from in a sluggish economy?), while the Obama plan may be safer but is also deficient in many respects. I’m not so confident as you are that seniors, or most other people for that matter, will be able to wade through all the false promises of the for-profit insurance companies to determine which plan is best for them, even those who are computer and mathematically savvy, and not everyone is, particularly the working poor. The Ryan plan seems to be a bold social experiment, which may be needed; however, let’s keep in mind that the participants of the experiment are real-life people.

Ryan plan is not part of this election, Romney has said he will run on his own budget

“We’re very much on the same page,” Mr. Romney said on CBS’ “This Morning.” “I said at the time his budget came out that it was a serious and important effort to try to get America on track to try to have a balanced budget. I get us to a balanced budget faster than the plan he originally put forward — my tax rate is 28 percent, that’s my highest; his is 25 — I mean, there are some differences, but they are very similar.”

washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/aug/15/romney-very-much-same-page-ryan-budget

 

[Elizabeth502]

Brit Hume, FOX News: What is your view of Ayn Rand? Are you an Ayn Rand disciple?

Rep. Paul Ryan: No. I really enjoyed her novels, Atlas Shrugged in particular. It triggered my interest in economics. That’s where I got into studying economics. That’s why I wanted to study the whole field of economics.

I later in life learned about what her philosophy was, it’s called Objectivism. It’s something that I completely disagree with. It’s an atheistic philosophy. But I think what she’s done is she’s showed – she came from communism. She showed how the pitfalls of socialism can hurt the economy, can hurt people, families and individuals and that to me was very compelling novels. Which says freedom, free enterprise, liberty is so much better than totalitarianism and socialism. Those novels, I thought were interesting. But her philosophy, which is different, is something I just don’t agree with.

 

[edwest2]

**Matt 25:34-36 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ **

**James 5:1-6
5:1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. **

Unbelievable,Paul Ryan believes in a godless elitists society and considers selfishness a virtue. Anyone who accepts the GOP corporate takeover of America and what this means to America has down the research to have an informed opinion. If you are Catholic/Christian who cannot accept the platform of either party and must sit this election out. Just Google Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand

The Corporate socialism that has led to 6 trillion dollars in debt and world wide economic destruction throughout the world caused by the financial and banking industry. Corporations which receive tax incentives, subsidies, bailouts at taxpayers expense. Corporations which do not pay for the national defense of this country. Corporations which hide their profits in holding companies with trickle down economics to the Cayman Islands. Watch Frontline Inside the Meltdown. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

Corporations that have outsourced America’s economy to a Communist country, Red China who will soon seek our destruction. Capitalism where maximizing profits and minimizing expenses require corporations to export all jobs to the lowest bidder in the biggest Ponzi scheme ever.

Where the elderly, the infirm, and children where be left starving to death in completion of genocide on the undesirables of society…those who are poor, sick and elderly.

With the election of Romney social unrest and anarchy will reign. Who will pay for all that.

THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AWAITS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE:

I**‘m sick to my stomach’: anger grows in Illinois at Bain’s latest outsourcing plan**

**The Sensata plant in Freeport is profitable and competitive, but its majority owner, Bain Capital, has decided to ship jobs to China – and forced workers to train their overseas replacements
**
'I'm sick to my stomach': anger grows in Illinois at Bain's latest outsourcing plan | US economy | The Guardian

Paul Ryan Tells Seniors It’s Too Bad If You Lose Your Benefits ~~~ "… We Can’t Keep Doing Everything For Everybody In This Country."
Paul Ryan Tells Seniors It's Too Bad If You Lose Your Benefits | Crooks and Liars

Checks watch - it’s mud-slinging time, right on schedule. Outsourcing to China began a long time ago. A long time ago. Why? Because some President said it was OK? No - it was done out of pure greed by the heads of corporations who want to pay Chinese workers pennies on the dollar for their work, sometimes in sweatshop conditions.

And Red China is about as red as a lukewarm Democracy. It too is going for the dollars and allowing its workers to be exploited. China is not a military threat, but defense contractors are constantly lobbying the White House, looking for new places to drop some inventory. “Hello? Mr. President? This is Bob from BDI. Are you looking to bomb any countries in the near future? I mean I’m sitting on tons of inventory and I don’t want to layoff any of my guys. They got kids to put through college ya know.”

President: “Good to hear from you, Bob. And trust me, I understand your situation. Just give me about an hour to confer with the Joint Chiefs and I’ll get back to you.”

First Lady: “Who was that?”

President: “It was Bob from BDI looking for some work.”

First Lady: “BDI ?”

President: “Bombs Delivered Immediately.”

Peace,
Ed

 

[meltzerboy]

Brit Hume, FOX News: What is your view of Ayn Rand? Are you an Ayn Rand disciple?

Rep. Paul Ryan: No. I really enjoyed her novels, Atlas Shrugged in particular. It triggered my interest in economics. That’s where I got into studying economics. That’s why I wanted to study the whole field of economics.

I later in life learned about what her philosophy was, it’s called Objectivism. It’s something that I completely disagree with. It’s an atheistic philosophy. But I think what she’s done is she’s showed – she came from communism. She showed how the pitfalls of socialism can hurt the economy, can hurt people, families and individuals and that to me was very compelling novels. Which says freedom, free enterprise, liberty is so much better than totalitarianism and socialism. Those novels, I thought were interesting. But her philosophy, which is different, is something I just don’t agree with.

Elizabeth, there is a video of Ryan as late as 2009, praising Ayn Rand and her economic philosophy, which was shown last evening on MSNBC’s “The Last Word.” Try as he might, Ryan cannot run away from his support of Rand, nor should he, as Romney is wont to doing. Let Ryan defend his position and be honest with the public, unlike the typical politician, because his ideas are interesting.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Is it not Obama’s campaign meme/theme FORWARD…… like into the jaws of death rode the 600.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...mpaign-slogan-forward_obama_lenin_lemming.jpg

 

[stinkcat_14]

Thanks, Lisa. As I see it, the Ryan plan, which will undoubtedly undergo numerous modifications as time goes by, is risky and potentially costly (where is all this voucher money coming from in a sluggish economy?), while the Obama plan may be safer but is also deficient in many respects. I’m not so confident as you are that seniors, or most other people for that matter, will be able to wade through all the false promises of the for-profit insurance companies to determine which plan is best for them, even those who are computer and mathematically savvy, and not everyone is, particularly the working poor. The Ryan plan seems to be a bold social experiment, which may be needed; however, let’s keep in mind that the participants of the experiment are real-life people.

The problem with medicare is that it is a giant welfare program that predominantly benefits the middle and upper classes. And because so many people benefit from it, it will be that much more difficult to reform it. About 75% of Medicare part B costs come from general revenue of the government. So working people are made to sacrifice so that people who can easily afford to pay their own way get a heavily subsidized policy. While one can argue whether or not this is fair, what is not arguable is whether or not this is sustainable. Because it is clearly not sustainable.

 

[meltzerboy]

Ryan plan is not part of this election, Romney has said he will run on his own budget

“We’re very much on the same page,” Mr. Romney said on CBS’ “This Morning.” “I said at the time his budget came out that it was a serious and important effort to try to get America on track to try to have a balanced budget. I get us to a balanced budget faster than the plan he originally put forward — my tax rate is 28 percent, that’s my highest; his is 25 — I mean, there are some differences, but they are very similar.”

washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/aug/15/romney-very-much-same-page-ryan-budget

Abyssinia, like it or not, Ryan’s plan is now very much part of this election. Romney made it so by selecting Ryan as his running mate. At least the two men should be approximately on the same page regarding Ryan’s plan.

 

[DeSanto]

DeSanto you consistently make the case for the “deserving poor”

WHO COULD HAVE EVER IMAGINED THAT I WOULD HAVE TO CONSISTENTLY MAKE THE CASE FOR THE POOR ON A CATHOLIC WEBSITE. OH SORRY, “DESERVING” POOR AS IF THERE ARE UNDESERVING POOR.

as if EVERYONE on public assistance were like you, hard working, compassionate, doing their best for their families. The fact is that they are not. The other fact is that the government programs are wasteful, inefficient, duplicated, and do not provide any long term solutions. If this were the case the trillions and trillions we’ve invested in the “War on Poverty” would have long since been un-needed. Instead we see that the very programs intended to “help” the poor have increased their numbers, increased their desperation and mired them in a never ending cycle of continued poverty.

Do you TRULY think anyone on this forum would begrudge a truly needy family not just food, clothing and shelter, but also some of the little goodies in life? Please answer that question!

Speaking for myself, and perhaps others, I not only pay a boatload in taxes but my charitable giving is the “first fruits” taken out of my paycheck before I even pay my mortgage. What I resent is knowing that my tax dollars are being wasted on poorly executed programs, on little manias of the President (green energy, unions, contraception mandates). In addition, sadly, MANY MANY people take advantage of the system. Not only is this demonstrated statistically, I’ve seen it happen when volunteering for various charitable organizations and social service agencies.

So you present a false dichotomy…either we fork over the money we EARN to incompetent and corrupt politicians to distribute or children go to bed hungry…REALLY? You really believe this? Why do you have such incredible faith in the GOVERNMENT? I dont

Lisa

What I cannot understand is how nobody can seem to get that I am …

COMPARING ROMNEY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM TO POOR PEOPLE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM!

Thats it! Romney takes advantage of the legal tools at his disposal. The poor take advantage of the legal tools at their disposal.

You make valid points and I agree with many, but please stick to the subject that I am speaking on. One thing at a time. Rich people do not get food stamps. Poor people do. You must be poor to qualify. So right there they are at a disadvantage, what ever the reason, however poor they are. They are poor. You cannot have money and qualify for food stamps. OK, so you don’t want your tax dollars going to a these people. Vote for Romney/Ryan you may just get your wish. But do not forget, people on assistance DO WORK AND ALSO PAY TAXES. NOT JUST YOU!!!

 

[Ecoclimber]

Bravo Scott! Why is it somehow “noble” to extract money from one group to give it to another? It’s so easy to spend OPM isn’t it?

Lisa

Your statement and of the poster is based on Greed and Gluttony. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus and the Apostles taught and commanded us to support the less fortunate. He has given gifts of financial blessing to many so they can use that money not to squandered it on themselves but to benefit their brothers and sisters that are suffering in poverty, sickness, and homelessness. That is the hallmark of Christianity. Jesus commanded us to die to self daily and our own selfish interests.

Luke 9:23-26
Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? 26 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Pope Benedict XIV stated: We know well that this truth risks being contradicted by the hedonism of the so-called well-off societies: Life is exalted as long as it’s pleasant, but one tends to not respect it any more when it is sick or damaged.”

Hedonism clouds people’s judgment and risks annihilating morality, Pope Benedict XVI said. It also fools people into thinking their real worth lies in their social or personal standing and their ability to control reality,

“The temptation has crept in that says man’s richness is not faith, but his personal and social power, his intelligence, his culture and his ability to scientifically, technologically and socially manipulate reality,” he said.

We have the words of Jesus.
Matt 25:41-46
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Super rich hiding up to $32 trillion offshore
Up to $280bn is lost in tax revenues as wealthy individuals park financial assets in offshore tax havens.

Rich individuals and their families have as much as $32 trillion of hidden financial assets in offshore tax havens, representing up to $280bn in lost income tax revenues, according to research published on Sunday. The study estimating the extent of global private financial wealth held in offshore accounts - excluding non-financial assets such as real estate, gold, yachts and racehorses - puts the sum at between $21 and $32 trillion.
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aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/07/2012722145418435676.html

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