Paul Ryan!!

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LisaA said:
You have a very simplistic approach to tax laws but they are very complex with complex and long term ramifications. You seem to think “EVIL RICH PERSON PAYING LOWER TAXES” without understanding the purpose of those laws.

here we go again. could you please explain to me because I’m so stupid and your so smart. what is the purpose of those laws??? could it be to create jobs? or maybe to bring business back from overseas? or could it be those two miraculous words “Trickle Down”? How’s that working for us btw??? Can you honestly tell me 2 trillion more dollars in tax breaks that are NOT paid for to people that certainly are not TRULY NEEDY is the right thing for this country. If you can explain that to me, in small words of course, i would be much obliged.

I am certainly not defending the laws, some of which may be ill advised. But I don’t think your attitude toward high income people

**the only reason you think i have such a resentment towards rich people is because I am forced to repeat comments that are lost on you. again all i said is it is not right to game the system for rich or poor. you seem to think it’s ok to game it if your rich, i don’t. so we disagree, not really an attitude, just trying to make a point. **

who pay the vast majority of taxes is one of appreciation but rather resentment.

It is greatly appreciated, I gaurantee you. no sarcasam, really! I am and I’m sure many, most recipients are very appreciative for this assistance. Why would we not be? Why would you assume we’re not?

Were you as appreciative of the people who pay the taxes to provide these government programs as you seem to be of the government who simply distributes OPM.

YES! still doesnt’ change my opinion of Romney. Or Ryan. Or the tax codes. Or a lot of other things. But I am thankful, yes, that there is a safety net for those in need. I don’t believe people would do enough on their own or we would need governement to do it, would we.

Look, I feel just horrible spending my whole day arguing with some stranger on the internet. I really need to go. I’m sorry. I cannot do this anymore. I’m going to bible study before my kids get home from school. Peace and love to you. Please no hard feelings

Lisa
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bellasbane said:
You’re repeating a lie that every reputable news organization has already debunked. In granting state waivers, the Obama administration did not eliminate the work requirement:

Thank God for Massachusetts - the most Catholic state in the Union!
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Please read with comprehension. I said “GUTTED” not eliminated. So you think going on a diet equates work? Getting a message or going to therapy?

What you cannot deny is that instituting the work requirements was very successful in getting people OFF public assistance. So why the need to remove the very thing that was successful…oh yeah must be some constituant base Obama needs to pander to this week.

Echo the comment about the “Catholics” in Massachusetts :eek: I’m sure the rank and file are devout and practicing their faith but when you have the Kennedys as icons of the state and the Church, something is missing.

Lisa
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Jesus never “demonized” the rich. He demonized the Pharisees. He does not hate wealth, He hates hypocrisy.
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I differ, Yes, He did.
**
1 John 2:15-17**
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world-the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does-comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. **
**
Luke 18:22-25
**22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” **
**
Luke 6:23-26**
"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
24 "But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. **
**
Luke 12:18-21
**18 "Then he said, `This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’

20 "But God said to him, `You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God.” **
**
Luke 16:19-26**
**19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ **

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.
 
Top Obama champion switches for Romney
Code: 
         **'Being Republican is cool, being conservative is the right thing'**
In 2008, he was one of the biggest champions for Barack Obama, even serving as an Obama campaign co-chairman and seconding Obama’s nomination at the Democratic National Convention.
But that was then and this is now.
Today, Artur Davis, a former four-term Democratic congressman from Alabama is now supporting Republican Mitt Romney for president, and is joining him on the campaign trail in Arlington, Va.
Just last month in Falls Church, Va., Davis gave a rousing address to the Northern Virginia Tea Party, rallying the crowd to defeat his former ally Obama.
The Birmingham News indicated “Davis’ sermon-like speech, invoking both the 1980 Reagan revolution and Rosa Parks, earned a standing ovation and chants of ‘USA.’”
During that speech (scroll down for video), Davis also encouraged young people: “You tell everybody your age that being Republican is cool, being conservative is the right thing to do. It’s the right set of values. You testify, you minister, and you bring ‘em on board with you, because we’re not going to concede young people to the Democratic Party in 2012.”

more…
 
LisaA said:
You can’t because we KNOW it’s being wasted. We see it every day. Again you seem to think that everyone on assistance is like you. They are not.

Further the point was that Obama gutted the work requirements, one of the most successful provisions regarding moving people off of public assistance. The “work requirements” were not that draconian. No one was forced to slave away digging holes and filling them up just to get TANF. Instead they were to either get training or a job. Now they can get welfare for getting massages, reading self help books, or going on a diet.
Do you think people won’t take advantage of this?

The problem with no strings attached welfare is that it becomes a mindset and generational. Again statistics back this up. My experience backs this up. When I was a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) I saw the same pattern over and over. Single female, several children, less than a high school education, often a substance abuse problem. When I looked at the family background, these women were also products of single mothers, no fathers, no emphasis on education or job training. When you are raised in that enviornment that’s what you see. A fish sees water. That’s because he IS in water. People raised with government as the provider simply follow the pattern unless there is intervention.

I don’t know why you refuse to acknowledge that we are not either addressing or solving the problem of poverty with the current system. It’s broken and serves those in the Social Industrial Complex far more than it serves the future generations.
Lisa
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You paint anything with a broad bush. Your experience if it is to be believed, is anecdotal at best and therefore statistical unfounded. You have the GOP outsourcing the American economy to a communist country thereby increasing the poverty rate in this country and making America into a third world country which everyone refuses to address.

How about social welfare system for corporations to the tune of trillions of dollars? The bailout of the banking and financial sectors to the tune of trillions of dollars for gambling in the unregulated credit default markets, the so called ‘dark money’ sector.

If one believes in the GOP, then one must believe in socialism and communism. Since corporate America is supporting a communist state, China and their largest expansion of economic wealth and growth since fall of the Chiang Kai-shek govenment

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Having money in a foreign bank does not protect it from taxes. It protects it from a collapse of the American banking system. Romney has declared all of his overseas accounts and the IRS hasn’t said a peep about him “hiding money”. Money in an account is not income, it is an asset. If the money is in the bank already, it has already been subjected to income taxes, so putting it in a foreign account is already post-facto taxation. The point of the matter is that Swiss bank accounts are very, very safe havens for money because they have strict rules on how people operate their accounts and most of the deposits are backed with gold. Here in the US, your deposits are backed by funny money from the Federal Reserve and the “full faith and credit of the United States”…something that is carrying less and less worth as time progresses and as the US debt climbs over $16 trillion.
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You make valid points. I agree. The tax rates are much lower though. No one has refuted that. Everybody knows all the shady characters put their money is Swiss bank accounts. Drug dealers, terrorist funders, big billionaires ect… so whatever.
 
DeSanto said:
You make valid points. I agree. The tax rates are much lower though. No one has refuted that. Everybody knows all the shady characters put their money is Swiss bank accounts. Drug dealers, terrorist funders, big billionaires ect… so whatever.
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Everbody knows that there are many good people that do, too.
 
Ecoclimber said:
You paint anything with a broad bush. Your experience if it is to be believed, is anecdotal at best and therefore statistical unfounded. You have the GOP outsourcing the American economy to a communist country thereby increasing the poverty rate in this country and making America into a third world country which everyone refuses to address.

How about social welfare system for corporations to the tune of trillions of dollars? The bailout of the banking and financial sectors to the tune of trillions of dollars for gambling in the unregulated credit default markets, the so called ‘dark money’ sector.

If one believes in the GOP, then one must believe in socialism and communism. Since corporate America is supporting a communist state, China and their largest expansion of economic wealth and growth since fall of the Chiang Kai-shek govenment

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.
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Speaking of China, this is a great example of a Great Leap Forward and no more succesful. Nothing you have said makes sense…I am a Republican therefore I support a communist state? How does the GOP “outsource to a communist state?” So the GOP is in charge of every public corporation? Wow whoda thunk it!

As to the bank bailouts, I was not in favor of them or for that matter the GM bailout which was simply pandering to unions. So in saying I paint with a broad brush, I can up the ante with my own cliche…you are the pot calling the kettle black:D

Again I don’t have a clue how you came to your conclusions/opinions but have a great day
Lisa
 
Ecoclimber said:
Your statement and of the poster is based on Greed and Gluttony.
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Taxation policy has nothing to do with Greed or Gluttony. We, as voters, are determining what is a fair amount to tax others. The person being taxed could be greedy or gluttonous, or they could be a person who pays their employees well, gives back to the community, tithes to their church, etc. 🤷
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Everbody knows that there are many good people that do, too.
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come on, refute the lower tax rate comment…somebody. I really don’t know for sure, that’s what I heard…anyone? Harvard the tax lawyer didn’t refute it. A man running for president should invest his money in the country he is running for…period.
 
Ecoclimber said:
How about social welfare system for corporations to the tune of trillions of dollars? The bailout of the banking and financial sectors to the tune of trillions of dollars for gambling in the unregulated credit default markets, the so called ‘dark money’ sector.
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I don’t think I see anyone here defending corporate welfare, which costs taxpayers approximately $100 billion per year.

cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/corporate-welfare-federal-budget
 
DeSanto said:
You make valid points. I agree. The tax rates are much lower though. No one has refuted that. Everybody knows all the shady characters put their money is Swiss bank accounts. Drug dealers, terrorist funders, big billionaires ect… so whatever.
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But DeSanto the money has ALREADY BEEN TAXED. So when Romney sends after tax money to a Swiss bank account, he’s already paid the taxes associated with those earnings. Further, the interest or dividends or other earnings on those funds are taxed again regardless of where they originated.

Romey is rich because he’s smart with his money. If he decided to take the funds and put them in a poorly earning, highly taxed account it would not prove he was noble it would just prove he was stupid.

FWIW shady characters put their money in US bank accounts too. So I guess they are patriotic felons 😃

Lisa
 
**Capitalism tends to produce a system that either grows or dies. People that are good at it, gobble up those who are not so good at it. Today, the focus is no longer here, except perhaps at a relatively low small business level, with a very high turn-over, in both businesses and jobs.

** Also, there is what is called the “creative destructiveness” of capitalism. If it becomes corrupted and ceases to innovate and improve its efficiency, whether through the “purchase” of laws favorable to its survival or the formation of large trusts that shut out innovation, then it dies as well, resulting in the over protection of the status quo (which in theory should be constantly changing) and oligarchy - rule by a “privileged few” class. What are the signs of this happening? Principally, two trends: 1) the concentration of income; 2) followed by the concentration of wealth and the loss of income and wealth mobility.
**
Without serious restructuring of economic fundamentals…we’re just about there, with dwindling class mobility and a permanent “under class” of the majority, maintained through the smoke and mirror games of a permanent (and far less numerous) upper class. If it gets bad enough, we’ll evolve into dictatorship or revolution…or both.**

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.
 
PJD1987 said:
I’m sorry you continue to be offended by us, CMatt. If I recall correctly, you had mentioned you weren’t coming back, but you are here. I still believe a lot of these insults are perceived and not really intended, heck, it just happened to me. Even though I don’t agree with many of your posts, I appreciate your comments and the opportunity to engage you in spirited debate.

But if we truly bother you that much, maybe this board is not for you?

God bless.

-Paul
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Paul, when you were thinking about starting a new continuing thread of this topic once it was closed for being over the 1000 post mark, I said I would not be joining you on the new thread about this same topic. As far as the board I only know it is a reason why I have not worshiped in a Catholic Church for a few mos.
 
Ecoclimber said:
I differ, Yes, He did.
**
1 John 2:15-17**
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world-the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does-comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. **
**
Luke 18:22-25
**22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” **
**
Luke 6:23-26**
"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
24 "But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. **
**
Luke 12:18-21
**18 "Then he said, `This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’

20 "But God said to him, `You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God.” **
**
Luke 16:19-26**
**19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ **

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.
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Still see no “demonization” of rich people. Demonization is actually denouncing them.

He denounces the money changers in the temple, not for their wealth, but for desecrating the House of God.

He denounced the Pharisees for hiding their wealth in the temple, not because they were wealthy, but because they were using the law to shirk their duty to take care of their parents.

Abraham was a fantastically wealthy person, will the blessings and active participation of God himself.

And the story of the rich man and Jesus, Jesus didn’t denounce the rich man, but his priorities.
 
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