Paul Ryan!!

[DeSanto]

it had not actually confounded Washington for 30 years. Hillarycare was proposed and rejected.

And you think the Repubs are blocking legislation?

I know they are. And it’s called CSPAN btw not MSNBC. CSPAN is like that reality show about congress. It’s pretty interesting if you got the stomach for it.

And actually, attempting to nationalize health care goes all the way back to FDR!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useroc_Tropics/United_States_health_reform_under_FDR

 

[YADA]

You would vote for Obama because you think global warming is going to kill everybody?
…

But it’s an undeniable fact that Obama promotes and supports abortion on demand. Are you really saying you’ll require Romney to get on board with you on global warming before you’ll oppose abortion and the persecution of the Church?

Not to mention all of the great minds that heve been lost and will be lost to abortion that may have been the key to solving the worlds problems …

Just think - if Jonas Salk’s mother had made a different ‘choice’ …

Medical break thoughs, mathematical break throughs, technolgy advances … like ultra sounds, MRIs, etc … millions of great minds lost … …

At least she has a life to live and the chance to give something to make society a better place … to bad she won’t see past the lip service she is serving up about how much she cares … to see the humanity of a child in the womb - and their potential to give as well … but then she probably believes that they would take up too many resources [as if she does not or she is more important because she is already here:shrug:] and the world is better without them …

 

[DeSanto]

Why do they keep thinking that Obama wanted to work with the Republicans? heck.

Uh, because he practically begged them to for two years till he finally realized it was pointless. Its called CSPAN. Actual real live senators and congressmen in action.

 

[DeSanto]

You would vote for Obama because you think global warming is going to kill everybody?

I realize you cannot be convinced that global warming is even debateable, and think it’s an absolute. But no matter who gets elected, nothing we do in the U.S. is going to reduce CO2 emissions significantly because the rest of the world is not going to do it. China alone adds a coal fired plant every ten days, and is actually the biggest emitter. India isn’t far behind. Changing over to natural gas here will make little difference even in U.S. emissions.

But it’s an undeniable fact that Obama promotes and supports abortion on demand. Are you really saying you’ll require Romney to get on board with you on global warming before you’ll oppose abortion and the persecution of the Church?

Open your eyes, global warmin is real. You’ll figure it out. Don’t be so pessimistic, there’s a whole lot we can do about it! First thing we must do is unite. United we stand, divided we fall…it’s not just a catching phrase…it’s actually true.

 

[YADA]

Uh, because he practically begged them to for two years till he finally realized it was pointless. Its called CSPAN. Actual real live senators and congressmen in action.

And you saw Obama on CSPAN - in the Senate and the House - begging republicans to work with him? And the republicans refusing to do so …For two years …

Gee - you must have been watching a different CSPAN camera view then was broadcast in the western part of the nation …

do you have a link so others can see this too? … news reports … because I think this also would have made the alpabet soup channels and Rachel Maddow’s show … Chris Matthews too

 

[Ridgerunner]

Oh Lisa, Lord knows you try but sweetie the driver of healthcare cost is those pesky poor indigent people again, making you pay more for your premiums. And you know as well as I do every president for the past 30 years has tried to conquer the healthcare delima. It is hardly a manufactured crisis. WMD in Iraq is a manufactured crisis.

Interesting that the Brits have recently been contracted by the Iraqi government to get rid of chemical WMD in Iraq that were made by Saddam Hussein. The Canadians, of course, removed the radioactive yellow cake. Even Wikileaks acknowledges that there were WMD in Iraq, and Wikileaks is hardly a Bush apologist.

But whatever.

And not every president for the past 30 years tried to “conquer the healthcare dilemma”. Clinton briefly proposed national healthcare, but abandoned it totally when it failed early in his administration. No other president until Obama tried it again. And even Obama didn’t want Obamacare. He signed it only because it was the only thing that could pass the Democrat Senate.

And it’s not only care of people with no money that drives healthcare costs up in this country. There are a number of causes, of which such care is only one.

But if one assumes, for a moment, your premises, then you’re saying that paying through insurance for indigent care is the solution to paying through insurance for indigent care? That’s really your conclusion. You surely are aware that the truly “indigent” were already covered, and their care was paid through taxes. Maybe your definition of “indigent” includes more than the truly “indigent”.

And so far, Obama has admitted that 20 million won’t be covered under Obamacare. The CBO says 30 million. But what’s ten million here or there? Some of the estimates for the uninsured given as the basis for passing Obamacare were no higher than that.

 

[10gr8kids]

Is that what I, a Catholic Democrat, am all about? Thanks for setting me straight. I wouldn’t have wanted to contradict any stereotypes.

Rich, I mean this in all sincerity, I have always wondered how a Catholic, or any Christian can reconcile their faith and voting for someone who has no respect for a babies life in the womb. I understand the need to help the poor, and from what I see there is really no reason for anyone in this country to go hungry. Our country has been blessed with an abundance of food, and there are many places for someone to get help getting food, so I don’t believe the poor in our country are going to starve to death. There may be some children that don’t get the food they need, but I believe this would not be because their parents couldn’t get it if they wanted, but because they are being negligent. I also understand their is a lot of other needs that people have but this is a basic need to live. Just as a child in the womb needs protection for a basic need.

I also believe that the poor need to be helped and protected, but may disagree with someone about how best to do this. What is another way to protect the unborn besides restricting or ending abortions?

In all honesty I am just trying to understand how you feel about this, we may never agree but if we understand how we come to our perspective conclusions we may be able to have better dialogue.

 

[rlg94086]

Thanks for your reply. What “tax cuts” are you referring to? Do you mean the extension of the Bush tax rates? I would not call those tax cuts but rather merely keeping the tax rate as it had been the past eight years.** Or, to put it another way, I would call it “not raising taxes during a recession” which even Obama said is not a good idea. **

Ishii

 

[LisaA]

You ?? - I have no clue about you … are you a Catholic politician - like Pelosi, Biden, and nearly every democratic Catholic elected officail?

Because the post was in response to a post that said something along this line “I did not know there were so many Catholic politicians”

Followed by this … “but are they practicing Catholics”

I once watched the Democratic Convention [it was held in Los Angeles] … and they interviewed a woman from Eugene Oregon who said "I am an active practicing Catholic and I am here to cast my vote to keep abortion rights legal" … she said it -

I believed her - took her at her word…

I told those watching with me that I was glad she was ‘practicing’ … it was all the hope her statement afford … as long as she still practices - she might still learn that killing an unborn child - innocent child - in its mother’s womb is evil - immoral, wrong, a horror, and it hurts the mother, the father, the siblings [thhhose born and yet to be], the entore extended family and our society at large. It is never justified - not ever … sadly Pelosi and Biden share her views - their voting records show it …

We had a Catholic governor [Ted Kulongkoski - raised by nuns too - go figure] who with his wife was NARAL Pro-Choice Oregon’s Honorary Fund Raising Chair for thei annual fall Gala Ball … he also enjoyed the photo-op and news release notice of his taking Communion - especially at military funeral Masses …

Republicans have a few pro-abortion Catholics too [Arnold comes to mind - of course he is or was tied to the pro-choice Kennedy clan] … I esteem them equally with their democratic counter-parts …

Sadly - the democratic Catholics politicians by their public policy stances and votes are pro abortion, pro gay marriage, and pro euthanasia, etc have earned their repretation

Even more sad is the average Catholic democrat - who may be very pro-life but who have aligned themselves with a party platform that espouses the pro abortion anti-life, anti-catholic mantra … my heart goes out to you but you choose to support by your votes, your affilliation, your financial support - a party dedicated to furthing the destruction of the american family …

YADA my fellow Oregonian, land of the crunchy granola people…fruits nuts and flakes! I love your posts and didn’t notice until this one that you and I are neighbors as well as sympatico on issues of life.

I totally agree that self described Catholics who are militantly pro abortion are definitely a common sight in this state. Hey we allowed abortion before Roe! We are the pioneer in assisted suicide! SO much to be proud of.

The sad thing is that self described Catholics like Kulengowski do a world of damage by confusing the public as to both our teachings and the commitment to those teachings. This is frankly not helped by national shows like “Just Love” who were hooting and crowing about current governor Kitzhaber saying he would NOT allow any executions while he is governor. Oh what a great defender of life! I wrote to them in horror asking if they were not aware of Kitz’s pro abortion stance. I never heard back

But once again this plays to the Left who is up in arms about the death penalty (which I am opposed to of course) which is applied so rarely as to make national news. But they totally ignore abortion…even minimal obstacles like parental notification don’t make it in this state.

Lisa

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Forcing insurance companies to cover people is not socialized health care number one.

That depends on the nature of the law.

Number two, don’t be so nieve as to think our healthcare is not already rationed through the archaic insurance companies who btw can deny your chemo for any reason they want at any time.

I never said our current system doesn’t already ration.

Insurance companies cannot deny you for any reason they want. It has to be a reason listed in their terms of service you signed.

And lastly, yes, there are plenty of people being denied the medicines they need for illnesses because of lack of money and insurance.

This is incorrect.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

perhpas I’m misunderstanding you, but are you arguing against both Obamacare and private health insurance?

I am against Obamacare and think private insurance needs an overhaul. How’s that for an answer?

 

[DeniseNY]

I guess that’s fine for an answer, but not sure why you have to cop a nasty attitude. I just wasn’t sure if I was misunderstanding you and asked for clarification.

 

[LisaA]

Oh Lisa, Lord knows you try but sweetie the driver of healthcare cost is those pesky poor indigent people again, making you pay more for your premiums. And you know as well as I do every president for the past 30 years has tried to conquer the healthcare delima. It is hardly a manufactured crisis. WMD in Iraq is a manufactured crisis.

DeSanto…you base your entirely erroneous conclusions on what? The indigent do not drive up the cost of healthcare in the same manner as the federal government with its many regulations and mandates. The other culprit is the litigious nature of this society. One of the things you might not know about the world of socialized medicine is that they do not have the same legal system or redress for real or imagined damage done by the medical profession. It is much less expensive to practice when you don’t have to pay a $60,000 a year malpractice premium.

And please do not patronize me. I suspect your experience in the area of healthcare finance is more limited than my own so I don’t need your cyber pat on the head. Take some time, get some experience in the area and then get back to us.

Lisa

 

[ComputerGeek25]

DeSanto…you base your entirely erroneous conclusions on what? The indigent do not drive up the cost of healthcare in the same manner as the federal government with its many regulations and mandates. The other culprit is the litigious nature of this society. One of the things you might not know about the world of socialized medicine is that they do not have the same legal system or redress for real or imagined damage done by the medical profession. It is much less expensive to practice when you don’t have to pay a $60,000 a year malpractice premium.

And please do not patronize me. I suspect your experience in the area of healthcare finance is more limited than my own so I don’t need your cyber pat on the head. Take some time, get some experience in the area and then get back to us.

Lisa

 

[YADA]

YADA my fellow Oregonian, land of the crunchy granola people…fruits nuts and flakes! I love your posts and didn’t notice until this one that you and I are neighbors as well as sympatico on issues of life.

I totally agree that self described Catholics who are militantly pro abortion are definitely a common sight in this state. Hey we allowed abortion before Roe! We are the pioneer in assisted suicide! SO much to be proud of.

The sad thing is that self described Catholics like Kulengowski do a world of damage by confusing the public as to both our teachings and the commitment to those teachings. This is frankly not helped by national shows like “Just Love” who were hooting and crowing about current governor Kitzhaber saying he would NOT allow any executions while he is governor. Oh what a great defender of life! I wrote to them in horror asking if they were not aware of Kitz’s pro abortion stance. I never heard back

But once again this plays to the Left who is up in arms about the death penalty (which I am opposed to of course) which is applied so rarely as to make national news. But they totally ignore abortion…even minimal obstacles like parental notification don’t make it in this state.

Lisa

Hi Lisa - thank you … and I feel the same for you … Oregon has quite the anti-catholic sentiment - past and present …

I wrote to the Bishop about the NARAL GALA Dinner and Mr. Kulongkoski - the public scandal that caused … :banghead:

I also once had quite a written and phone call diologue with Clackamas Community College over an anti-Catholic art exhibit :bigyikes: and why that translated to my decision to no longer send my employees to CCC for autoCAD training … I was very angry

I am a native Oregonian - several generations back [on my fatehrs side] … it is God’s Country … but at times it is very hard to be an Oregonian … but I am always a follower of our Lord, Jesus Christ

 

[DeSanto]

Interesting that the Brits have recently been contracted by the Iraqi government to get rid of chemical WMD in Iraq that were made by Saddam Hussein. The Canadians, of course, removed the radioactive yellow cake. Even Wikileaks acknowledges that there were WMD in Iraq, and Wikileaks is hardly a Bush apologist

That, I was not aware of. I will research.

But whatever.

And not every president for the past 30 years tried to “conquer the healthcare dilemma”.
**
Ok, not every president. But dating back to FDR there has been an effort to takle the healthcare delima. I showed a reference! And please don’t deny it…the healthcare bill set forth was a republican plan, including the mandate! Endorsed by the likes of Karl Rove and the Heritage Foundation. Just ask Romney, he knows what I’m talking about.
**
And even Obama didn’t want Obamacare. He signed it only because it was the only thing that could pass the Democrat Senate.

Your opinion, mine is that this was the most important accomplishment he wanted to make sure he got this done. It was very important to him considering his mother’s story.

And it’s not only care of people with no money that drives healthcare costs up in this country. There are a number of causes, of which such care is only one.

But if one assumes, for a moment, your premises, then you’re saying that paying through insurance for indigent care is the solution to paying through insurance for indigent care? That’s really your conclusion. You surely are aware that the truly “indigent” were already covered, and their care was paid through taxes. Maybe your definition of “indigent” includes more than the truly “indigent”.

come on, seriously. The only thing I was trying to say is that more people paying in helps tremendously with the cost. More people should pay isn’t that the mantra on here?

And so far, Obama has admitted that 20 million won’t be covered under Obamacare. The CBO says 30 million. But what’s ten million here or there? Some of the estimates for the uninsured given as the basis for passing Obamacare were no higher than that.

 

[LisaA]

Hi Lisa - thank you … and I feel the same for you … Oregon has quite the anti-catholic sentiment - past and present …

I wrote to the Bishop about the NARAL GALA Dinner and Mr. Kulongkoski - the public scandal that caused … :banghead:

I also once had quite a written and phone call diologue with Clackamas Community College over an anti-Catholic art exhibit :bigyikes: and why that translated to my decision to no longer send my employees to CCC for autoCAD training … I was very angry

I am a native Oregonian - several generations back [on my fatehrs side] … it is God’s Country … but at times it is very hard to be an Oregonian … but I am always a follower of our Lord, Jesus Christ

YADA that was always my phrase…this is God’s country with its great beauty and resources but the Church has not been given respect or even acknowledgement of its many efforts to help the poor. We (Oregon) have a long history in helping low skill workers get decent pay and working conditions. Bishop Steiner regaled us with stories of a Priest way back when who was a modern day MLK Jr pushing civil rights when it was not politically correct.

I’m not sure what took over our state and it’s discouraging to think that there is little if any hope that Oregon will vote Romney Ryan this year. But I’m bravely putting out my sign and watching the chips fall where they may!

Speaking of the NARAL dinner, our banker invited me to this dinner. I felt ill and told him exactly how I felt about NARAL and its evil. He was taken aback and then said “Oh I am so sorry. I should have known better…you know I’m Catholic too.”

As you said it’s hard enough to get through to the public, even more difficult to show wayward Catholics the error of their ways.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

YADA that was always my phrase…this is God’s country with its great beauty and resources but the Church has not been given respect or even acknowledgement of its many efforts to help the poor. We (Oregon) have a long history in helping low skill workers get decent pay and working conditions. Bishop Steiner regaled us with stories of a Priest way back when who was a modern day MLK Jr pushing civil rights when it was not politically correct.

I’m not sure what took over our state and it’s discouraging to think that there is little if any hope that Oregon will vote Romney Ryan this year. But I’m bravely putting out my sign and watching the chips fall where they may!

Speaking of the NARAL dinner, our banker invited me to this dinner. I felt ill and told him exactly how I felt about NARAL and its evil. He was taken aback and then said “Oh I am so sorry. I should have known better…you know I’m Catholic too.” BTW we moved our business to another bank

As you said it’s hard enough to get through to the public, even more difficult to show wayward Catholics the error of their ways.

Lisa

 

[DeSanto]

DeSanto…you base your entirely erroneous conclusions on what? The indigent do not drive up the cost of healthcare in the same manner as the federal government with its many regulations and mandates. The other culprit is the litigious nature of this society. One of the things you might not know about the world of socialized medicine is that they do not have the same legal system or redress for real or imagined damage done by the medical profession. It is much less expensive to practice when you don’t have to pay a $60,000 a year malpractice premium.

ok, one of the MAIN drivers, is that better? And as I said in an earlier thread, I agree TORT reform should be addresses in a separate piece of legislation.

And please do not patronize me.

You get what you give!

Lisa

 

[Elizabeth502]

I guess that’s fine for an answer, but not sure why you have to cop a nasty attitude. I just wasn’t sure if I was misunderstanding you and asked for clarification.

Denise, FWIW,
I did not read ComputerGeek’s Reply to you as “nasty.” I read it as merely direct and succinct, without particular passion.

Just my own perception…