Pauls writtings

[Steven_John]

Does any one see that some of Pauls writings could be seen to contradict Jesus (pbwh)

 

[teachccd]

Does any one see that some of Pauls writings could be seen to contradict Jesus (pbwh)

Could you give a specific example? Paul was tortured for the Gospel and to preach Christ to all who would listen. I could not imagine that he would contradict the very Person that he exhorts all to emulate.

 

[COPLAND_3]

No, not at all, but there are plenty of liberal theologians who will twist the context of St. Paul to sound as if he was. And those same liberal theologians will also twist the context of Christ. Those who make such claims have an agenda that is not Christianity.

St. Paul was called by Jesus Christ. His letters are a great resource in order to understand what Jesus came and taught. St. Peter the first Pope, who was given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, even called Paul’s letters “Scripture.” (2Peter 3:15-16)

 

[Steven_John]

I kinda figure i maybe taking things out of context and i am poorly educated so please be gentle with me.
I am looking from a scripture point of view just in the narrated words of Jesus (pbwh).

I am not keen on the testimony of sinners, without disrespect to the and Gods goodness in them but we sinners make error.

I dont know that Paul being tortured makes him right, he could have believed he was being duped by satan or more over having Jewish understanding believed it would be worth it to mislead Christ followers give his persecution was not making head way.

Paul seems to offer Jesus (pbwh) was equal to God but Jesus (pbwh) over and over says the Father sent me, i did not come of me, i only do as the Father shows etc.

Jesus (pbwh) says he came to fulfil the law and but Paul says he abolished it.

 

[bullfrog654]

manipulation to cause change in history from the ones that held the keys were at most a self interest type of ordeal leading heards over cliffs by laws that were self satisfied by the owners of keys. jesus saw misery with the system of things i believe merely set a self interest for the heard as well. A form of the ‘will’ and ‘choice’ developed and became fruitful. however manipulation to cause change was widened onto the heard as well as the keys over turned to make way for a better truth

 

[Steven_John]

Here is another doosy

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, …

…that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ…

Who is Paul?

Even Jesus (pbwh) has not done this.

 

[Steven_John]

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Baloney Paul he is a sacrifice for our sins, he was given the pure spirit so is without sin

 

[Steven_John]

Almighty God please send people to genuinely help me with this thread from their hearts.

Many here say they know so much of what is right in religion and correct so many. Where are they now?

Send not the web searchers, scholars that only teach what they have taught but send those who read from the book, ask you Father in prayer and come and openly share the truth as you show it.

Amen

 

[diggerdomer]

Does any one see that some of Pauls writings could be seen to contradict Jesus (pbwh)

no

 

[Steven_John]

no

could you please help me by explaining your prayer inspiration on this

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, …

…that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ…

 

[diggerdomer]

could you please help me by explaining your prayer inspiration on this

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, …

…that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ…

It was not a prayer or inspiration (whatever you meant by that, which I confess I still don’t understand) but simply an answer to the question posed.

Did you mean something else by the question you asked? If so, please help us by clarifying or expanding. Thank you.

 

[Sam_777]

I think Steven is referring to Muslims who claim that Paul was the one who founded Christianity and perverted Jesus teachings, they claim that Christianity is nothing more than the teachings of Paul, and Jesus was nothing but a normal prophet.

Reference:
answer-islam.org/Paul.html

PS., I think this thread should be in the “Non-Catholic Religions” section.

 

[Steven_John]

I think Steven is referring to Muslims who claim that Paul was the one who founded Christianity and perverted Jesus teachings, they claim that Christianity is nothing more than the teachings of Paul, and Jesus was nothing but a normal prophet.

Reference:
answer-islam.org/Paul.html

PS., I think this thread should be in the “Non-Catholic Religions” section.

Seriously Sam, you have Islamic issues that you need to put aside in our discussions.
This had no connection to anything Islamic. The Islamic community here do not even discuss pauls texts.

But i will check out the url reference it may be a view point to discern.
Not getting far here

God bless ya, pray well and stay well

 

[COPLAND_3]

could you please help me by explaining your prayer inspiration on this

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, …

…that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ…

Here is what St. John Chrysostom says on this passage…

Ver. 14. But far be it from me to glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Truly this symbol is thought despicable; but it is so in the world’s reckoning, and among men; in Heaven and among the faithful it is the highest glory. Poverty too is despicable, but it is our boast; and to be cheaply thought of by the public is a matter of laughter to them, but we are elated by it. So too is the Cross our boast. He does not say, I boast not, nor, I will not boast, but, Far be it from me that I should, as if he abominated it as absurd, and invoked the aid of God in order to his success therein. And what is the boast of the Cross? That Christ for my sake took on Him the form of a slave, and bore His sufferings for me the slave, the enemy, the unfeeling one; yea He so loved me as to give Himself up to a curse for me. What can be comparable to this! If servants who only receive praise from their masters, to whom they are akin by nature, are elated thereby, how must we not boast when the Master who is very God is not ashamed of the Cross which was endured for us. Let us then not be ashamed of His unspeakable tenderness; He was not ashamed of being crucified for your sake, and will you be ashamed to confess His infinite solicitude? It is as if a prisoner who had not been ashamed of his King, should, after that King had come to the prison and himself loosed the chains, become ashamed of him on that account. Yet this would be the height of madness, for this very fact would be a special ground for boasting.

Ver. 14. Through which the world has been crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

What he here calls the world is not the heaven nor the earth, but the affairs of life, the praise of men, retinues, glory, wealth, and all such things as have a show of splendor. To me these things are dead. Such an one it behooves a Christian to be, and always to use this language. Nor was he content with the former putting to death, but added another, saying, and I unto the world, thus implying a double putting to death, and saying, They are dead to me, and I to them, neither can they captivate and overcome me, for they are dead once for all, nor can I desire them, for I too am dead to them. Nothing can be more blessed than this putting to death, for it is the foundation of the blessed life.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is what Marius Victorninus says books.google.com/books?id=VcK6Ec-4CRgC&pg=PA185&dq=augustine+galatians+commentary&sig=QHgSJL9DCjVmNoVkI_FTSxFumkE#PPA343,M1

St. Thomas Aquinas diafrica.org/kenny/CDtexts/SSGalatians.htm#64

Ancient Christian Commentary books.google.com/books?id=LHj4aH7cSU0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=ancient+christian+commentary+galatians&sig=i0dJ1y2AVJP5QrGCEq1B8JitJZE#PPA102,M1

 

[COPLAND_3]

And best of all CORNELIUS À LAPIDE

Ver. 14.—But God forbid that I should glory, &c. The adversative but marks a contrast between the glory of the Judaisers in circumcision and the glorying of S. Paul in the Cross. The Cross of course stands for itself and all the redemptive benefits it bestows, and in it is shown the greatness of man’s sin and the depth of God’s love. S. Augustine (Serm. 20 de Verbis Apost.) says: “The Apostle might well have gloried in the wisdom of Christ, or His majesty, or His power; but it was the Cross he specified. The philosopher’s shame is the Apostle’s boast. He glories in his Lord. What Lord? Christ crucified. In Him are conjoined humility and majesty, weakness and power, life and death. Would you come to Him? Despise not these; be not ashamed; you have received the sign of the Cross on your forehead as on the seat of shame.”

S. Bernard (Serm. 25 in Cant.) says: “He thinks nothing more glorious than to bear the reproach of Christ. The shame of the Cross is pleasing to him who is not unpleasing to the Crucified.”

And again he writes (Serm. 1 de S. Andrea): “The Cross is precious, capable of being loved, and is a cause of exultation. The wood of the Cross puts forth blossoms, bears pleasant fruit, drops the oil of gladness, exudes the balsam of temporal gifts. It is no woodland tree, but a tree of life, to those who lay hold of it. It bears life-giving fruits, else how should it occupy the Lord’s land, that most precious soil, to which it was affixed by nails which were, as it were, its roots?”

So (in Ep. 190 ad Innocent. Pont.) he says: “I see three principal things in this work of our salvation: the form of humility, in which Christ emptied Himself; the measure of charity, which stretched itself even to death, and that the death of the Cross ; the sacrament of redemption, whereby He bore that death He vouchsafed to take upon Him.”

By whom the world is crucified unto me. As the world shrinks from the Cross or any crucified corpse, so do I shrink from the pomps and vanity of the world. Whatever, as S. Bernard says, the world thinks of the Cross, that do I think of worldly pleasures; and whatever the world thinks of pleasure, that do I think of the Cross.

A simpler explanation, however, is to take crucified in the general meaning of death, that being the consequence of crucifixion. The Apostle used the term crucified to maintain the continuity of his subject. Being crucified with Christ, he says, I am a new creature, and breathe a new life. I am dead to the worldly things clung to by the Jews (he still has these in his mind); I am not held by them or by the opinions, applause, or hatred of anybody whatsoever, as the Judaisers are. And by consequence all worldly things are, so far as I am concerned, dead—they have no power to affect me. The world is crucified to me; it cannot hold me. I am crucified to the world; I do not regard it. The world cannot hurt me, nor do I desire anything from it. S. Ignatius, writing to the Romans, said: “My love is crucified, and hence corruptible food and worldly pleasure delight me not. I long for the bread of God, that bread which cometh down from heaven, which is the Flesh of Christ. With Him I am crucified.”

Cassian (de Institut. Renunt. iv. 34, 35) relates the beautiful description of the monastic ideal given to a novice by Abbot Pinusius. He put before him Christ crucified: “Renunciation of the world is nothing but the choice of the Cross and the mortified life. You know, therefore, that this day you have done with the world its activity and its delights, and that, as the Apostle says, you are crucified to the world, and the world to you. Consider, then, the conditions of life under the Cross, under the shadow of which you are henceforth to dwell. For it is no longer you that live, but He liveth in you who was crucified for you. As He hung on the Cross, so must we be in this life, mortifying our flesh in the fear of the Lord, with all its affections and lusts; not serving our own wills, but nailing them to His Cross. So shall we fulfil the Lord’s command, ‘He that taketh not up his cross and followeth not after Me is not worthy of Me.’ ” He then describes in detail the way we should be crucified with Christ: “If it be asked, How can a man take up his cross and be crucified while still living, I reply: Our cross is the fear of the Lord; as the crucified man has no power over his own members, so are we to order our wills, not after our own desires, but according to the fear of the Lord, which constraineth us. And just as the man fastened to a cross regards not things present, studies not his own feelings, is not anxious about the morrow, is stimulated by no worldly desires, grieves not over present injuries, thinks not of the past, and, while still breathing, holds that he has done with the elements of this world, sending on his spirit whither where he will soon be, so must we be crucified by the fear of the Lord to all these things, not only to sins of the flesh, but to all earthly things, keeping our eyes intent on the land to which we hope every moment to travel.”

The Apostle here is speaking not only to religious, but to all Christians, who by baptism have renounced the world, with its conventional ideals and low code of honour. The world may say: “Go to market—adapt yourself to everybody; be a heretic with heretics, a politician with politicians; and when you dine with them, eat flesh as they do, even on a fast day.” But the Christian will reply that he is dead to a life of this sort, and is bound to live the Christ life. Though he be called Papist, hypocrite, Jesuit, he will care nothing. The world scorns a man who refuses to fight a duel when challenged. The Christian will be content to know that duelling is forbidden by the law of Christ, and will despise the stupid opinions of a stupid world, preferring to follow the wisdom of Christ, which condemns all duelling as wicked and foolish. He will recollect that Christian fortitude is seen in bearing injuries in the defence of our country or ourselves, not in the retaliation of insults and injuries.

 

[bengland]

Here is another doosy

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, …

…that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ…

Who is Paul?

Even Jesus (pbwh) has not done this.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I think it’s very hard to read that Paul is taking any credit for anything or that he’s boasting about any special privilege, which is what I’m reading in the suggestion that this is a “doosy”.

What it means is that because of Christ Paul is dead to the world and the world is dead to him. The world does not see him, just as the world did not see Christ. This is why priests used to wear black cossacks. They are dead to the world but available to all. The ways of the world, getting ahead, having your name recognized, being important, successful, etc, are not the Way of Christ. The Way of Christ is a way of service, love and quite often doing exactly the opposite of what makes sense to the mind of the world, just as Christ gave his life so that you may have life.

The second half of that is here:

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Did I miss something here? What did the second part of that have to do with St Paul? It’s not even the same book from the Bible.

 

[PJM]

=Steven John;5049636]Does any one see that some of Pauls writings could be seen to contradict Jesus (pbwh)

Dear friend,

St. Paul is figured to have written about HALF of the New Testament.

Perhaps if you could be more specific we could comment futher?

I’m facinated by your question.

Love and prayers,

 

[Steven_John]

God bless you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut, i am a slow reader and am working through your offerings will post again soon.

 

[Steven_John]

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I think it’s very hard to read that Paul is taking any credit for anything or that he’s boasting about any special privilege, which is what I’m reading in the suggestion that this is a “doosy”.

What it means is that because of Christ Paul is dead to the world and the world is dead to him. The world does not see him, just as the world did not see Christ. This is why priests used to wear black cossacks. They are dead to the world but available to all. The ways of the world, getting ahead, having your name recognized, being important, successful, etc, are not the Way of Christ. The Way of Christ is a way of service, love and quite often doing exactly the opposite of what makes sense to the mind of the world, just as Christ gave his life so that you may have life.

The second half of that is here:

Did I miss something here? What did the second part of that have to do with St Paul? It’s not even the same book from the Bible.

This post clarifies for me i thank and praise God for this.
I had drawn parallel between paul having th world recoiled to him and saying it is reconciled to God. I saw them as a contradiction or Paul likened himself to God.

I appreciate the other posts but i am real thick they are to scholarly 4 me.