Paying to enter my Father’s house

[kgmlg]

Another reason why I have suggested that a small section for prayer be added to these historical churches full of tourist is because some of them have absolutely no “respect” for prayer.

I will tell this story as an anecdote, although at the time it happened it kinda annoyed me.

We were doing the Camino de Santiago one day and ended up in the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela (of course ). Anyway, I was one of the few catholics in the group and of course, I knelt down to pray in the crypt as soon as we got there.

About five minutes into my prayer, it seems that I was annoying a Japanese tourist and bombing his picture taking session, and the man lost it. He physically and bodily lifted me (I am not very big ) from my kneeling position to remove me from the line of sight of his camera lens. LOL. Poor guy had no idea why this woman was taking so long on her knees. LOL

Yep, a private area for prayer may be a good suggestion.

 

[Catholicman-maryland]

I agree with the original post. I’ve encountered this too, and found it to be a turnoff, sends the wrong message about what a church is for. I’d glady contribute for the upkeep when entering - and a tasteful sign can encourage donations.

 

[LilyM]

We pray there because the primary purpose of a Catholic church is prayer and Mass, regardless of what others are doing.

While I agree - does that mean 24-hour or daily free access for whoever wants it? Many a country town will have its church open on the one or two Sundays a month when they have Mass and closed the rest of the time. Perhaps I’m biased, living in the country myself.

And OP, I don’t mean tourists doing intentional wreckage, but the mere presence of so many people traipsing through one place creates dirt, heat, humidity and general wear and tear. Museums often have to be carefully temperature and humidity controlled (and put their more fragile pieces under glass or the like) for this very reason. Look at before and after photos of the restoration of the Sistine Chapel ceiling to see what dirty, dusty, sweaty tourists can do - even to a ceiling which none of them go near!

 

[kgmlg]

Yes, you are right of course, just the light and dust alone could cause serious damage. That is why I actually have nothing against charging an entrance fee for the museum part.

I just wish that a church that is open for tourists, could also allow a place for prayer, being a church and all, you know……

 

[Tis_Bearself]

While I agree - does that mean 24-hour or daily free access for whoever wants it? Many a country town will have its church open on the one or two Sundays a month when they have Mass and closed the rest of the time. Perhaps I’m biased, living in the country myself.

No, I said nothing of the kind.
It’s unfortunate that due to security concerns, churches can’t just stand open 24/7 in many places.
The fact that a church is locked except for prayer and Mass time does not mean that its primary purpose is not still prayer and Mass. Nobody is using those locked church buildings for any other primary purpose.

Also, the question was “why pray in a cathedral where hundreds of tourists go”, so I’m not sure what that has to do with churches being locked.

 

[1ke]

most of them won’t even allow you to pray in their church without paying!

This is not true at all. I’ve never been in any church in Europe (and I’ve been all over Europe extensively and have family that lives there) that charges an entry fee— deconsecrated churches that are now museums, yes. Active churches, no. Some charge for tours or to visit certain parts of the church. All have prayer areas you can access freely— usually where the blessed sacrament is reserved. Mass is also available freely.

The church is open for paying visitors more than 8 hours a day,

What church is that? Be specific.

 

[1ke]

I recently went to York and I was to be charged to enter the Cathedral unless it was for prayer. Honesty is required!

Let’s be clear. York Minster? Because that is not a Catholic Church. It’s Church of England.

 

[Lee1]

I’m sure it must have been as you say, I enjoy such buildings regardless.
I told my priest once that I enjoyed visiting a particular church in the UK and I added that it was a pity that it was no longer a Catholic one, he said words to the effect that that was purely a temporary matter! We laughed.

 

[kgmlg]

kgmlg:

most of them won’t even allow you to pray in their church without paying!

This is not true at all. I’ve never been in any church in Europe (and I’ve been all over Europe extensively and have family that lives there) that charges an entry fee— deconsecrated churches that are now museums, yes. Active churches, no. Some charge for tours or to visit certain parts of the church. All have prayer areas you can access freely— usually where the blessed sacrament is reserved. Mass is also available freely.

The church is open for paying visitors more than 8 hours a day,

What church is that? Be specific.

Off the top of my head, the cathedrals of Toledo, and Seville and in the Sagrada Familia. All are open all day for tourists, all open for prayer during mass times only.

(Edit: news article from 2012 where it says more or less that Spain now has to do what Europe is doing and charge an entrance fee when there is no mass. Las catedrales siguen el ejemplo de Europa para cobrar por las visitas)

 

[DignumEtJustum]

Perhaps some of these ancient buildings need the cashflow in order to maintain them. Or perhaps it’s time we start flipping tables.

 

[paperwight]

As I understand it, part of the reason for introducing admission charges to ‘must see’ cathedrals in the UK was actually to cut down on the vast numbers visiting and spoiling the atmosphere, particularly foreign school trips.

As it was, large groups of tourists (often teenagers) were shepherded in to fill up an hour or so in the day, even though some of the time they weren’t really interested or had much better at home. The suspicion was that groups went inside to shelter from the rain as well.

The introduction of charges at least meant that some thought was given to whether the tourists actually wanted to see inside these buildings.

 

[edward_george1]

I’ve been to a number of churches in other countries that were being maintained as historic landmarks for which an admission fee was charged, but if you are wearing clerical attire (or are in a group with someone who is) or you just say you’re coming in to pray, they don’t usually charge you.

The thing you have to remember too is that in some countries, the historic churches belong to the government, and not the local hierarchy. This is the case in Portugal, and I’ve been into at least one in Canada like this (Notre-Dame de Montreal). So when you’re paying the admission fee, it’s the same as going into a historic castle or park or museum owned by the government, and you’re helping pay the upkeep of the landmark. In many places where the Church isn’t as numerous as it once was, these properties would be forced to close and would fall into ruin if they weren’t being administered as historic sites. While it’s not an ideal arrangement vis-a-vis religious liberty (i.e. if the government suddenly got very anti-religious, it could revoke usage rights to the local Church, or worse), it at least keeps these treasures kept up where they might otherwise not be.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[1ke]

Sagrada Familia.

Sagrada Família is not a cathedral or a parish church. It is owned by a private foundation. Mass only takes place on Sundays and Holy Days and I don’t believe they reserve the Eucharist there. It is an entirely different situation than a parish church.

The cathedral in Toledo charges for the museum tour. They have mass and daily hours listed. I see nothing regarding admission to pray or attend Mass.

In the cathedral of Seville, admission is by ticket/tour only unless you live there, residents of the diocese can go in anytime they want for free. You can also go to mass there for free.

 

[kgmlg]

I do not know if I am not explaining myself well, or you are just refusing to understand the point of this thread. Either way, may the Lord’s peace be with you.

 

[HeDa]

Sagrada Familia in Barcelona is still being built. The church can now be used for celebrating Mass but it wasn’t when I was there about 10 years ago.

There is no fee to enter the basilica Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome. There are just guards and military outside and security might take some time go get through. There are people checking to make sure you are properly dressed and give you something to cover yourself with if you aren’t. The museum in the basement costs a couple of Euro to go to.

The Lateran basilica in Rome is also free to enter.

 

[LilyM]

The point is that the problem of not always having free access to a church when one might wish to pray there is common to both. In the one case it is because one has to pay to enter, in the other it is because the church is locked for the vast majority of the time.

 

[kgmlg]

I think the Sagrada Familia will stay unfinished, (or should I say under construction ), till the end of time. LOL. But yes, they started celebrating mass back in 2010. Although I think only 2 masses a week, not often enough in my book.

The Notre Dame in Paris also allows you to pray for free, you have to pay for the museum and the tower but praying is free. I can’t recall having to pay to pray at Saint Peter’s either, the museum yes. So it’s not all of them, just some.

But I still believe any self respecting church should allow people to pray for free if they are open.

 

[kgmlg]

Father, charging the clergy to go into a church……is just all sorts of wrong. But, as things are going nowadays, I would not be surprised if one day I see this happen too.

But thank you for the explanation, I did not know that some of the churches no longer belonged to the Church. But I guess it is expensive to maintain these hundreds of years old buildings. That’s kind of sad though…no wonder prayer is no longer the priority in some of them.

 

[kgmlg]

Although after reading your post initially, I had to agree with a church charging if it is only used as an umbrella , but, wouldn’t a better idea be to install a religious “labyrinth” and “force” people to learn something religious while they take shelter from the rain? Use the weather to forcibly partake in an impromptu catechesis class? Yes, I am sneaky sometimes.

 

[kgmlg]

Yes, it looks like this happens less in the UK (well done btw!). There are several examples of churches/cathedrals who practice this in the thread. I do not think it is exclusive to one country alone.