Pelosi on church "enforcement" of its teachings

[KS_Housewife]

On Monday, at Texas A&M University, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi claimed the Catholic Church has not “enforced” its teaching against contraception and that the Church now wants the federal government to do the Church’s enforcement work for it, by objecting to the HHS mandate to provide birth control health insurance coverage for employees.

For article, see cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-catholic-church-has-not-enforced-its-teaching-contraception.

It must be Nancy Knows Best. She apparently has discerned that those bishops ought to be enforcing Catholic teaching and, in her estimation, they have fallen down on the job. One can only speculate as to the enforcement mechanism Nancy envisions which they have failed to utilize (bedroom police? pharmacy spies? confessional exit polls?)

 

[Sherry_G]

Well, the world according to Nancy is somewhat warped, isn’t it? The church also hasn’t “enforced” their teachings on abortion, as far as she is aware…I think the Church should publicly excommunicate Nancy to clear up their “enforcement” policy. It’s hard to say just how many lukewarm Catholics she’s swayed over to the dark side. She’s all for the government taking care of that infanticide program and taking it worldwide, too.

 

[tundra1]

On Monday, at Texas A&M University, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi claimed the Catholic Church has not “enforced” its teaching against contraception and that the Church now wants the federal government to do the Church’s enforcement work for it, by objecting to the HHS mandate to provide birth control health insurance coverage for employees.

For article, see cnsnews.com/news/article/pelosi-catholic-church-has-not-enforced-its-teaching-contraception.

It must be Nancy Knows Best. She apparently has discerned that those bishops ought to be enforcing Catholic teaching and, in her estimation, they have fallen down on the job. One can only speculate as to the enforcement mechanism Nancy envisions which they have failed to utilize (bedroom police? pharmacy spies? confessional exit polls?)

Well, I hate to admit it, but this appears to be the only thing Nancy has gotten right.

Think about it, how many times from the pulpit have you heard a priest preach against contraception? Even though they know its commonly used?
or even abortion from the pulpit?
In my 30+ years I can count them on one hand… actually I only remember it being said once here in my city.

 

[baylee]

Well, I hate to admit it, but this appears to be the only thing Nancy has gotten right.

Think about it, how many times from the pulpit have you heard a priest preach against contraception? Even though they know its commonly used?
or even abortion from the pulpit?
In my 30+ years I can count them on one hand… actually I only remember it being said once here in my city.

I hear ya. However, if this is her way of excusing why the government should have a right to force them to go against said Church teaching, she’s got a lot of chutzpah.

I’m beginning to think that this whole thing is a blessing in disguise. For a Church that has not been preaching enough about certain topics, it’s now front and center…and the bishops aren’t caving in (fingers crossed they stick to their guns).

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Well, I hate to admit it, but this appears to be the only thing Nancy has gotten right.

Think about it, how many times from the pulpit have you heard a priest preach against contraception? Even though they know its commonly used?
or even abortion from the pulpit?
In my 30+ years I can count them on one hand… actually I only remember it being said once here in my city.

The priests in our parish preach against contraception, abortion, and all of the other moral evils of our society all the time. I remember one time one of the younger priests said, during a sermon, that if a married man has had a vasectomy and has not confessed it, he is living in a state of perpetual mortal sin and should not present himself for communion.

 

[PaulinVA]

I think the USCCB should respond to this speech by sanctioning Pelosi.

I don’t know what they can do short of excommunication, which I understand is very narrow and probably doesn’t even apply in her case. However, it would be fun and ironic if the response to* her* speech was to sanction her as a start…

 

[scipio337]

The priests in our parish preach against contraception, abortion, and all of the other moral evils of our society all the time. I remember one time one of the younger priests said, during a sermon, that if a married man has had a vasectomy and has not confessed it, he is living in a state of perpetual mortal sin and should not present himself for communion.

Wow. I only Pelosi’s bishop would have the strength of these convictions. He’s called her to task publicly, before, but I think just a public announcment of “I don’t want to have to deny you communion, so you probably shouldn’t present yourself, mmmkay?” would work wonders.

 

[LilHomemaker]

I do think the Church has not spoken enough maybe of contraception on Sundays but I think there were other ways they tried but maybe it was not enough, such as pre-marital classes. At least where I live before you get married you have to take a class on NFP. Also, Catholic hospitals not performing abortions and sterilization has been a little bit of a witness to the Church’s belief. Where I live there are two hospitals across the street from each other. One Catholic and one protestant. It is pretty popular to hear someone say when wanting sterilization, “I am going across the street.” But IMHO people have known what the Church taught but didn’t know why so ignored it. Maybe God is providing us with a great opportunity to witness the Church’s teachings and get some of these Catholic women off of contraception. It is a great time for the Church and the people of the Church to let the world know why Catholics are not to use contraception and how dangerous it is for souls.

Also, as a woman I take offense to her “sisterhood” comments. She definitely does not, no way, speak for all women.

 

[Tigg]

It must be Nancy Knows Best. She apparently has discerned that those bishops ought to be enforcing Catholic teaching and, in her estimation, they have fallen down on the job. One can only speculate as to the enforcement mechanism Nancy envisions which they have failed to utilize (bedroom police? pharmacy spies? confessional exit polls?)

I never thought I’d see the day I could ever agree with Nancy, but she’s spot on with this one. Since HV onward, the subject has been effectively silenced. Occasionally, we might hear something about NFP and that’s as far as it goes.

I wish the bishops would start speaking out for moral truth and not miss this perfect chance to catechize the church, but all I’ve heard is “we must protect religious freedom and freedom of conscience.” Why aren’t they using their full authority to speak of explicit truth and proclaim moral principles?

Overall HV made astounding predictions: ABC would lower moral standards, there would be a rise in infidelity, women would become objects of men’s pleasure and we would see government coercion in reproductive mandates. The American Church turned her back to that document and look where we are. Let’s hear the bishops say that contraception is an intrinsic evil and explain WHY. Let them tell Catholics they must be obedient! The silence is deafening and this is the time to courageously un-do some of the damage.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I never thought I’d see the day I could ever agree with Nancy, but she’s spot on with this one.

Sadly, yes.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The priests in our parish preach against contraception, abortion, and all of the other moral evils of our society all the time. I remember one time one of the younger priests said, during a sermon, that if a married man has had a vasectomy and has not confessed it, he is living in a state of perpetual mortal sin and should not present himself for communion.

Good for them. My pastor is a lot more mild than those.

How can one live in perpetual mortal sin? If one confesses, sins are forgiven as I understand it, and if the couple, for whatever reason, abstain from coitus, where’s the sin? I’d attribute that questionable advice to the priest’s youth, though.

And, suppose the man can’t afford to have the vasectomy reversed, but lives chastely?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Good for them. My pastor is a lot more mild than those.

How can one live in perpetual mortal sin? If one confesses, sins are forgiven as I understand it, and if the couple, for whatever reason, abstain from coitus, where’s the sin? I’d attribute that questionable advice to the priest’s youth, though.

And, suppose the man can’t afford to have the vasectomy reversed, but lives chastely?

Well, a married man can live chastely while still engaging in relations with his wife. Chaste, in Catholic terms, means living in a state of sexual purity. Relations between a married couple are chaste. Now, he could live continently, which means he abstains from relations altogether, but his wife might have something to say about it. The wife has the right to demand “marital duty” to which the husband owes a “marital debt”. Which means that if he refuses to have relations with her, he is sinning. This puts him in a quandry, if he doesn’t have relations with her, he is sinning, if he does have relations with her, he is sinning. The best option is for married men to not have vasectomies.

 

[Della]

Good for them. My pastor is a lot more mild than those.

How can one live in perpetual mortal sin? If one confesses, sins are forgiven as I understand it, and if the couple, for whatever reason, abstain from coitus, where’s the sin? I’d attribute that questionable advice to the priest’s youth, though.

And, suppose the man can’t afford to have the vasectomy reversed, but lives chastely?

A man doesn’t have to have a reversal of his vasectomy in order to receive absolution and continue to have sex with his wife. Reversals don’t always work, but the important thing is it’s not required.

As for Pelosi, she may be right that the Church in America has not spoken out against contraception because our clergy have been, quite frankly, divided on the issue or simply looked the other way. But, she cannot use their failure to be more definitive to excuse her own support of it, and worse of abortion on demand. Truly, on that score she’s living in la-la-land.

 

[JimG]

The Church doesn’t “enforce” moral teachings. She promulgates them. I’ve never had a priest or a chancery worker follow me around to ensure I didn’t commit sin.

Now if she means that the Church has not spoken out forcefully against such things as contraception, she may have a point. Yet the Church has spoken out against such things as promiscuity and abortion, yet notwithstanding that, the government has essentially been able to force its teaching on us as a nation.

Now the government wishes to force its own teaching on contraception (“it’s a good thing!”) onto every American, even on those who have strong moral judgements against that secular teaching.

No, it’s Ms. Pelosi who wants to force her teaching on all of us, not the Church.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The Church doesn’t “enforce” moral teachings. She promulgates them. I’ve never had a priest or a chancery worker follow me around to ensure I didn’t commit sin.

Now if she means that the Church has not spoken out forcefully against such things as contraception, she may have a point. Yet the Church has spoken out against such things as promiscuity and abortion, yet notwithstanding that, the government has essentially been able to force its teaching on us as a nation.

Now the government wishes to force its own teaching on contraception (“it’s a good thing!”) onto every American, even on those who have strong moral judgements against that secular teaching.

No, it’s Ms. Pelosi who wants to force her teaching on all of us, not the Church.

:clapping:

She still needs to be excommunicated.

 

[Farsight001]

:clapping:

She still needs to be excommunicated.

I believe she already has been, automatically.

 

[Gift_from_God]

I think Pelosi is right here. In the Church’s defence though, how would they know if you use contraception?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I think Pelosi is right here. In the Church’s defence though, how would they know if you use contraception?

The Church’s job is not to “enforce” morality, but to teach it and to reprimand Catholics who publically violate Church teaching in defiance of the Magisterium. That is what excommunication is for, the acknowledge when a Catholic has publically violated the doctrine of the Church. How are the supposed to enforce the teaching on contraception? Station priests inside people’s bedrooms?

 

[Rence]

On Monday, at Texas A&M University, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi claimed the Catholic Church has not “enforced” its teaching against contraception and that the Church now wants the federal government to do the Church’s enforcement work for it, by objecting to the HHS mandate to provide birth control health insurance coverage for employees.

Well, she’s kind of right in a way. There are no consequence for breaking Church rules. First off all, unless a parishioner admits usage, there is no way a priest/paster would know that a parishoner is using them. The Church, and Employers, would never know people were using the benefits due to privacy laws. However, there’s not much the Chuch can do except excommunicate people. It’s not like civil laws are in any way related to Catholic laws. The Church doesn’t have any real power to enforce it’s laws. The only thing they can do is repeat the rules (which, she’s right, they don’t), and when it’s found out that people are breaking them, to enforce the excommunications.

But I do think she’s right about the Church wanting the government to do the enforcing though, but that’s because they can’t, and she knows they can’t. So she might be speaking a truth, but it may not be a fair comment. The problem employers have about the inclusion of ABCs in health care coverage, is that people will actually use the benefit and it rubs them raw about it. They don’t want their employees to have access to it at all because they will use it. So instead of letting the people use their free will, they want to prevent them from having the benefit in the first place so that it’s harder for them to have accessibility. So yeah, the Church wants the government to enforce the laws by not making ABCs as easily accessible, or for encouraging ABCs usage by making it cheaper or free even. But of course they would want this, they couldn’t prove usage by Catholics anyway in the first place, and they can’t penalize them anyway. And in the second place, I don’t think they’re prepared to give ultimatims.

That all said, maybe the Pope should start with her first and tell her that she is excommunicated? Then she could not make that claim.

It must be Nancy Knows Best. She apparently has discerned that those bishops ought to be enforcing Catholic teaching and, in her estimation, they have fallen down on the job. One can only speculate as to the enforcement mechanism Nancy envisions which they have failed to utilize (bedroom police? pharmacy spies? confessional exit polls?)

Shouldn’t the Bishops be enforcing Catholic teaching by repeated teachings of the rules of the Church regarding ABCs? Haven’t they fallen down on the job, either due to compassion or maybe thinking that people won’t comply?

 

[Rence]

The Church’s job is not to “enforce” morality, but to teach it and to reprimand Catholics who publically violate Church teaching in defiance of the Magisterium. That is what excommunication is for, the acknowledge when a Catholic has publically violated the doctrine of the Church. How are the supposed to enforce the teaching on contraception? Station priests inside people’s bedrooms?

They could repeat the teaching, and before Communion or after the homily, or some time before Mass, tell the congregation that they ‘absolutely should not come up for Communion if they are contracepting’. You’re right that they couldn’t enforce it, but they could put it on the shoulders of the congregation.