Pelosi's judgment questioned over Armenia issue

[manualman]

Richardols,

Why the Armenians and why now? Why no resolution condemning the virtual genocide of American Indians by the very US government they are part of? Why no resolution condemning the slave trade of the 16-19th century?

I mean really, you think this coincidence? That’s about as laughable as the Bushies saying that the Iraq invasion had nothing to do with oil whatsoever.

I’m sure Nancy and friends are genuinely horrified by the Turkish atrocities against the Armenians - several generations ago. I’m also sure Bush was genuinely worried that Saddam would again someday use WMDs against his internal or external enemies. But neither one is the PRIMARY reason for the actions they have undertaken.

What REALLY prompted Bush into action in Iraq and NOT in, say Darfur, was the side effects that a WMD war would have on the economies of the world (i.e. reliable flow of oil). What Pelosi REALLY wants to achieve with Armenians (and NOT say the American Indian issues) is to further sully the Bush reputation and ensure that the Republicans lose the next big election.

 

[Richardols]

Richardols,

Why the Armenians and why now?

Because it’s about time. Shall the memory of the horror disappear into history? The fact that there has been no condemnation of Stalin’s deliberate starvation of the Ukrainians in the 1930s doesn’t make it any less real.

Why no resolution condemning the virtual genocide of American Indians by the very US government they are part of? Why no resolution condemning the slave trade of the 16-19th century?

The Armenians have been pushing for this for decades. I don’t believe that other groups have been as vocal to their Congressmen as they’ve been.

What Pelosi REALLY wants to achieve with Armenians (and NOT say the American Indian issues) is to further sully the Bush reputation

Given the poll numbers, I don’t think that there’s much more that can be done to further sully either her or Mr. Bush’s reputations. They’re both in the cellar.

and ensure that the Republican lose the next big election.

Ahh, yes.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Richardols, I’m curious, before this issue became a recent news item, did you get up every morning and pray that THIS was going to be the day that the Armenian Genocide was finally given the recognition that the victims deserve? Has it been a cause that has been animating your thoughts and prayers your entire adult life? Or is it just now that you’ve become passionate about it?

 

[tomarin]

i don’t know about the “suspicious” timing, but i do know that this is an absurd little exercise in self-righteousness on our legislature’s part. firstly, there’s nothing we can do now to help those poor armenians, and secondly, the house has as much business condemning the turks as their government has condemning us for the genocide of the native american peoples, or for slavery.

to top it off, this is the second time the house has passed such a resolution (so nice, they had to get on their soapbox twice).

in closing let me ask the question first posed and answered by the four lads:

why did constantinople get the works?

that’s nobody’s business but the turks.

 

[estesbob]

Richardols, I’m curious, before this issue became a recent news item, did you get up every morning and pray that THIS was going to be the day that the Armenian Genocide was finally given the recognition that the victims deserve? Has it been a cause that has been animating your thoughts and prayers your entire adult life? Or is it just now that you’ve become passionate about it?

First time I ever heard him mention it. Infact I have been amazed at how many on the left have suddenly become ardent supporters of the Armenians. Like I said before I believe the Democrats looked at it as a twofer. pander to very narrow base of Armenians in California and hamstring the war at the same time.

 

[Richardols]

Richardols, I’m curious, before this issue became a recent news item, did you get up every morning and pray that THIS was going to be the day that the Armenian Genocide was finally given the recognition that the victims deserve? Has it been a cause that has been animating your thoughts and prayers your entire adult life? Or is it just now that you’ve become passionate about it?

Keep the insults to yourself, thank you. And, aren’t you the very one who was complaining about a lack of charity?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Keep the insults to yourself, thank you. And, aren’t you the one who was complaining about a lack of charity? Take your own advice.

Richard it wasn’t an insult, it was a question. I’m sorry if you react badly to your assertions being challenged.

 

[estesbob]

Keep the insults to yourself, thank you. And, aren’t you the very one who was complaining about a lack of charity?

Looks like a straightforward question to me. Why the sudden passion about the Armenian genocide?

 

[Richardols]

Richard it wasn’t an insult, it was a question. I’m sorry if you react badly to your assertions being challenged.

Re-read it. It WAS an insult: "did you get up every morning and pray that THIS was going to be the day that the Armenian Genocide was finally given the recognition that the victims deserve? Has it been a cause that has been animating your thoughts and prayers your entire adult life? "

That’s sarcastic through and through and lacking in charity. You could have addressed me without the sarcasm and patronizing.

You certainly got bent out of shape when I made remarks about Cheney and Podhoretz.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Re-read it. It WAS an insult: "did you get up every morning and pray that THIS was going to be the day that the Armenian Genocide was finally given the recognition that the victims deserve? Has it been a cause that has been animating your thoughts and prayers your entire adult life? "

That’s sarcastic through and through and lacking in charity. You could have addressed me without the sarcasm and patronizing.

You certainly got bent out of shape when I made remarks about Cheney and Podhoretz.

It was a question. For some people, the answer to the question would be yes. For you, it would appear that the answer is no, and so you are embarrassed. That you are embarrassed is not my fault, nor is it uncharitable on my part. I asked a question.

On the other hand, your calling Cheney and Podhoretz names is uncharitable.

 

[LRThunder]

And we just can’t anger Turkey, can we?

There are four good reasons why the U.S. should have recognized the genocide:

1. The Resolution tells the truth, and we’d be the 24th country to officially acknowledge it.
2. The passage of time will only increase the size of the thorn in the side of what is a valuable relationship with Turkey. Armenian Massacre survivors are passing away, but their descendants have vowed to continue the struggle for recognition of the horror. The vehemence of the Armenia diaspora is increasing, not decreasing.
3. We have far more leverage over the Turk than he does over us. We brought them into NATO, we backed their entry into the EU, we gave them most favored nation status. They get more aid from us than any other countries except for Israel and Egypt.
4. See what they’ve done for us - they have a history of snubbing us. When Bush wanted to use Turkish bases to launch the Iraq invasion, the Turk told us to drop dead; when Bush asked the Turk to cool it on invading Iraq, he went and massed 60,000 troops on the border.

Just how far are we willing to go to cater to the successors of the Ottomans?

They may be the successors of the Ottomans, but since they are, the current government of Turkey had nothing to do with the Armenian massacre.

Should we hold the current German government responsible for the Holocaust? Why not…the current government (or form of government) is successor to the Nazi regime.

There are legitimate reasons not to vote for this resolution. Even if there weren’t any legit security reasons to oppose it, what would this resolution accomplish?

 

[tomarin]

They may be the successors of the Ottomans, but since they are, the current government of Turkey had nothing to do with the Armenian massacre.

Should we hold the current German government responsible for the Holocaust? Why not…the current government (or form of government) is successor to the Nazi regime.

many people today do hold the current german government responsible for the holocaust, and the current government seems amenable to playing along. that’s why they are forever apologizing to israel. the press often reports any german movement towards self-assertion as a step towards re-establishing an aggressive foreign policy – same with japan.

it’s not totally logical but it’s what people do.

 

[estesbob]

many people today do hold the current german government responsible for the holocaust, and the current government seems amenable to playing along. that’s why they are forever apologizing to israel. the press often reports any german movement towards self-assertion as a step towards re-establishing an aggressive foreign policy – same with japan.

it’s not totally logical but it’s what people do.

So should we pass a congressional resolution condeming them?

 

[tomarin]

So should we pass a congressional resolution condeming them?

nah. as i said above, that makes as much sense as the german government condemning us for our treatment of native americans or slaves. what business is it of theirs?

 

[MelanieAnne]

I just read an article about 10 million Ukrainians killed in the 1930’s by the Soviets. Has there been a Congressional Resolution about that? If not, should there be?

 

[estesbob]

nah. as i said above, that makes as much sense as the german government condemning us for our treatment of native americans or slaves. what business is it of theirs?

Personally I’d like to see a resolution condemning the massacre of black prisoners of war at Fort Pillow. I doubt if it would get many Southern votes ,however.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Come to think of it, I’d put a lot more credence in the sincerity of Congress calling for a resolution about Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks if they would first go on record categorically opposing the genocide that is going on right here in the US as well as all over the world ~ the genocide that is called abortion.

 

[tomarin]

Come to think of it, I’d put a lot more credence in the sincerity of Congress calling for a resolution about Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks if they would first go on record categorically opposing the genocide that is going on right here in the US as well as all over the world ~ the genocide that is called abortion.

right on, melanie anne.

 

[mlchance]

Rep. Pelosi, Speaker of the House and Catholic grandmother, can jump on the high moral ground by taking a “brave” stand against a century-old genocide, but not against abortion here and now.

All together now:

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[tomarin]

Rep. Pelosi, Speaker of the House and Catholic grandmother, can jump on the high moral ground by taking a “brave” stand against a century-old genocide, but not against abortion here and now.

All together now:

– Mark L. Chance.

right, and unlike the armenian massacre, ending abortion in the united states is actually something that is within our political leaders’ power to do something about.