Penance

[BlueinSD]

This may seem like a simple set of questions, but I don’t quite understand what ‘penance’ is. What is penance? Why is it necessary for the forgiveness of sins? Finally, how do things such as saying Hail Mary’s or other prayers result in the forgiveness of your sins?

I’m looking at becoming a Catholic and I’m trying to understand the Catholic teachings on a lot of the things I objected about the Church. I understand what Confession is and why it is necessary/where it can be found in Scripture, but I don’t understand penance. The necessity of confessing your sins to priests is found in John where Jesus says that if the apostles forgive sins they are forgiven and if they retain sins, then they will be retained. But, how does penance factor into the entire Sacrament? Can someone enlighten me? Thanks!

 

[Shin]

And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should everywhere do penance.’

Acts of the Apostles 17:30

Every sin owes a debt of penance. We are to, as repentant sinners do penance for our sins throughout all our lives.

Just like criminals being due a certain amount of corporal punishment for their crimes, a certain number of strokes of the cane, a certain number of days of harsh prison confinement, etc. In fact precisely so. It is a debt of punishment, which God holds us to.

There are traditional penances for sins that give an idea of what penance one is held to by God for each sins, these are given in the Penitentials or Liber Poenitentiales.

Every time we go to Confession the priest assigns us a penance. This is not the whole penance due to the sin, it is only a part, in these times due to human weakness normally only a very small part. We are expected to make up the rest on our own.

Penances can be and are most fittingly the opposite of what what the sin is. If we have sinned through gluttony, we should fast and give up even good food we could eat without sin, if we have sinned through anger, we should be meek and give up even lawful anger, sinned through a love of comfort, give up comforts and do what is difficult, etc…

Traditional penances are also, corporal and internal mortification, pilgrimages, vigils, prayers, etc.

So too, that we pay it, is medicinal, because the most fitting penances can be the opposite of the sin and this develops virtuous habits and counteracts vice (sinful habits).

‘So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.’

Luke 15:10

 

[BlueinSD]

And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should everywhere do penance.’

Acts of the Apostles 17:30

‘So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.’

Luke 15:10

The last word in each of these verses is penance, but in other versions of the Bible, it is “repent” or some version of the verb “to repent.” Is repenting the same as doing penance, or is this a mistranslation?

 

[Shin]

Basically, they are so tied together, that normally people who see one, without the other, are misunderstanding.

Combine the two words into one in your mind.

 

[Juda3]

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I have a wrong path or (wrong view, intention, speech, action, lively hood, effort, mindfulness, or concentration,) then I will make god angry with me. Man once could calm god’s anger by killing the most beautiful of his creations or (animal sacrifices) but now we have fulfilled gods thirst for blood by killing Jesus Christ his son whom is also god the father. Thereafter god thought of a kind of sin tax he could implement god called it a penance. A penance is where you pay money to the church in return for forgiveness. Now we do not need to kill the innocent any more but the killing Jesus thing was not even good enough and the money penance douse not work anymore because it has been replaced by a flat tax of 10%. Now we must just say a mantra then this will calm god. The name penance was catchy for the mantras so it stuck.

 

[Shin]

No, basically, what we have is Justice. And justice requires a just penalty for crimes.

Sin is a crime, basically, like murder, theft, etc. in human society. You appear before a court. The judge decides your sentence. If you did property damage, you owe the reparations for that damage, etc.

But, sin, being against an infinite God, has an infinite quality of offense to it. So the penalty is significant.

Every human being, via the natural law, understands justice. It can be educated to a degree out of a person, but if you look at even little babies, infants, they will respond in ways that indicate they understand justice and punishment, with their toys.

There’s nothing petty, and there’s nothing to be insulting about in regards to justice. It’s a very holy and awesome thing we have to have reverence for. And be thankful for that there is the Mercy of people willing to stand in our places in regards to its penalties. And bear the wounds -we- owe, on themselves.

Now that is love.

 

[Juda3]

No, basically, what we have is Justice. And justice requires a just penalty for crimes.

Sin is a crime, basically, like murder, theft, etc. in human society. You appear before a court. The judge decides your sentence. If you did property damage, you owe the reparations for that damage, etc.

But, sin, being against an infinite God, has an infinite quality of offense to it. So the penalty is significant.

Every human being, via the natural law, understands justice. It can be educated to a degree out of a person, but if you look at even little babies, infants, they will respond in ways that indicate they understand justice and punishment, with their toys.

There’s nothing petty, and there’s nothing to be insulting about in regards to justice. It’s a very holy and awesome thing we have to have reverence for. And be thankful for that there is the Mercy of people willing to stand in our places in regards to its penalties. And bear the wounds -we- owe, on themselves.

Now that is love.

God has some attachments or need to create justice? The “all that is” can be upset by my thoughts? My actions I can make the “prince of peace” angry? Douse god lack self control? Is god unable to accept things for how they are or (how he created them?) Can god make all “bad things” good?

 

[Spirithound]

What is penance? Why is it necessary for the forgiveness of sins? Finally, how do things such as saying Hail Mary’s or other prayers result in the forgiveness of your sins?

I’m looking at becoming a Catholic and I’m trying to understand the Catholic teachings on a lot of the things I objected about the Church. I understand what Confession is and why it is necessary/where it can be found in Scripture, but I don’t understand penance. The necessity of confessing your sins to priests is found in John where Jesus says that if the apostles forgive sins they are forgiven and if they retain sins, then they will be retained. But, how does penance factor into the entire Sacrament? Can someone enlighten me? Thanks!

In the context of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the penance that the priest gives does not forgive sins. The priest forgives your sins in persona Christi. The purpose of the penance is to diminish the effects of your sins, aside from the condemnatory effect (which was removed in the Sacrament). One of the effects of sin is that it is habit-forming. The prayers and works assigned as penance are designed to help you break the habit of sin, and form a habit of virtue.

 

[Shin]

God has some attachments or need to create justice? The “all that is” can be upset by my thoughts? My actions I can make the “prince of peace” angry? Douse god lack self control? Is god unable to accept things for how they are or (how he created them?) Can god make all “bad things” good?

God has no needs, properly speaking, He is perfectly simple. If you’re truly interested however, in understanding the matter, try imagining loving God, who is more good, more perfect more pure, than anything else that ever is, was, or could be.

And then imagine someone committed a crime against what you love, and then you will understand, however much you also love the one who committed the crime, there is a necessity of restitution.

A necessity that lies in the rightness of everything, and so for the one who committed the crime, to be ultimately right and reconciled with everything in one way or another, the justice has to be applied.

 

[BlueinSD]

Shin,

I understand the basis for penance. But I’m gonna ask a Protestant question here and ask why is it necessary? Didn’t Christ’s sacrifice at Calvary take care of the need for penance? Catholics believe that penance is necessary, while Protestants do not. Essentially, what I am asking here is where does the Protestant doctrine go wrong? Why is penance still necessary despite the ultimate sacrifice of Christ at Calvary?

Please note, I am genuinely asking. I am seriously thinking about becoming a Catholic and I am trying to get answers to my questions to see if I agree with them. Thank you for your sincere and well thought out replies.

 

[Spirithound]

I understand the basis for penance. But I’m gonna ask a Protestant question here and ask why is it necessary? Didn’t Christ’s sacrifice at Calvary take care of the need for penance? Catholics believe that penance is necessary, while Protestants do not. Essentially, what I am asking here is where does the Protestant doctrine go wrong? Why is penance still necessary despite the ultimate sacrifice of Christ at Calvary?

It depends on what you mean by “necessary”. It is not strictly necessary to perform penance in this life to be able to enter Heaven. However, if you don’t, you’re likely going to spend time in purgatory doing penance.

To understand why penance is actually necessary, just consider your present state. You have likely sinned today, as have I. We have sinned because we have a tendency towards sin known as “concupiscence”. We will not get into Heaven until this appetite is under the control of the reason. The Catholic Church teaches that this can actually be accomplished, and that it is absolutely necessary in order to enter Heaven. We accomplish this through the grace given by Jesus, which is infused into our being. This means we actually become righteous.

This is in contrast with a common Protestant teaching of “imputed righteousness,” where, because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we just “look” righteous, like Luther’s snow-covered dung hills.

 

[Shin]

Shin,

I understand the basis for penance. But I’m gonna ask a Protestant question here and ask why is it necessary? Didn’t Christ’s sacrifice at Calvary take care of the need for penance? Catholics believe that penance is necessary, while Protestants do not. Essentially, what I am asking here is where does the Protestant doctrine go wrong? Why is penance still necessary despite the ultimate sacrifice of Christ at Calvary?

Please note, I am genuinely asking. I am seriously thinking about becoming a Catholic and I am trying to get answers to my questions to see if I agree with them. Thank you for your sincere and well thought out replies.

‘Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church.’

Colossians 1:24

People into apologetics may give you answers in a different way. I’ll give you the one I have that really isn’t apologetically based, that is not based on argument.

We must become Christ. The entire point of Christ’s coming was to show us the Way of the Cross, which we must travel too, to enter into Heaven. The entire Bible illustrates that there is no redemption without suffering.

From the Old Testament ritual, where animals were ritually sacrificed, to the New Testament, where Christ gives His sacrifice, people always repent in sack-cloth and ashes, in penance. Sacrificing. Sorrowing.

There is one occasion when all our penance due to past sins is done for us – and that is in Baptism. Then, all of it is washed away, as long as we are entirely repentant. It is entering into the crucifixion… fully, in a spiritual way…

What we do not repent, is not forgiven, either to the guilt of, or the penance due. Even in baptism, if we have some sin we are firmly not repentant of, it will not be forgiven until the person is repentant… and then the grace of baptism is gained.

And this is important. When we are not repentant, when we are not penitential, we do not gain forgiveness for our sins. In men, we are called to forgive early, but this is because:

“Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.”

Romans 12:19

In other words, God is the dispenser of justice. We forgive with anticipation that God will take care of all justice properly. And that because we forgive sins, God will be the more generous in forgiving us.

Whenever we are forgiven sins… the penance for that sin… is being paid… we may be forgiven part of the penance, or all of it, depending on God’s determination… depending on whether it’s the sacrament of Baptism, or Confession… but it’s being paid by Christ – and also by those who bear Christ in them… that is those who love Him best, and live a life of substitutive penance for the sake of others…

These most especially are the saints… But what all Christians are called to do… that is, suffer penitentially for the sake of others…

For the sake of the love of God… and who is God? Goodness itself, Justice itself, Mercy itself… He is not limited to any one of these things… but this is how we find Him… in these…

Christ’s life is an example of penance. Job’s life is too. St. John the Baptist, lived in the desert… In other words… the Christian life is one of penance, either for oneself or for the sake of others…

If justice were always completely done away with, for all, on the personal level… if there were no penance – that would be too much mercy, and too little justice, justice would be too compromised. Not properly relating to justice, mercy truly would not be mercy. So there has to be penance, punishment of some degree.

So the innocent take the penitential path for the sake of others, and to be like the one whom they love, and the guilty take the penitential path, for the same reasons, and too for their own sake.

This is a real hmm… embodiement of what is going on with grace. . not a covering, or superficial approach to the whole matter.

The medicinal side… well… Penance is necessary for purity of intention.

Try this link, or if it doesn’t work, google “purity of intention” and use the cached version.

When there’s no opposition to virtue, our motivations are not purified. Impure motivations are always blots in the eyes of God. It makes sense that the purest intentions are shown in adversity. In a real way, without adversity, we cannot purify our intentions, because we are too attached to the world because of the consequences of original sin. We do not cleave to God, but rather to lesser goods, rather than Him, which is wrong.

‘Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world,
the charity of the Father is not in him.’

1 John 2:15

‘For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passeth away and the concupiscence thereof: but he that doth the will of God abideth for ever.’

1 John 2:16-2:17

People who love the world ‘die in their sins’. It takes a lot to change and not love the world. To not be a person who is habituated to loving the world more than God, and making decisions in favor of it, that are deadly, simply because of that love.

Penance is very key in separating us from addiction to the harmful pleasures of vice.

 

[Shin]

Hope that helps and isn’t too far off the beat for you. I don’t like to do apologetics, so my replies don’t reflect that. If you’d prefer that I’m sure you’ll find plenty obliging folks here if you press the right buttons.