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AnotherAtheist
Guest
A few thoughts on my leftist views for redhen
I graduated from the University of Alabama in Huntsville with a Bachelor in Electrical Engineering in 1982. After graduation I was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the United States army and spent the next 6 years practicing dropping nuclear weapons on West, not East, Germany in order to protect democracy from the godless communists.
When I got out of the military I took a job in the defense industry designing and building things that go fast and blow up with the intended purpose of killing human beings. I returned to school, received my MBA in 1997 and eventually transitioned to management. I work with scientists, engineers, business leaders and government bureaucrats every day. Many of these people are highly intelligent. Many of them believe that God created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. They believe that good science, evolution in particular, is nothing but lies designed to destroy god and country.
Why would these intelligent people believe such unmitigated ****? The answer is religion. They were indoctrinated at an early age to believe that faith trumps all. That no matter what the physical evidence the only thing that matters is what it says in a book that is based on the mythology of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.
Well those are fundamentalists, Baptist and Pentecostal Protestants. What do their beliefs have with Catholics? As Saladin said in The Kingdom of Heaven, “Nothing. Everything.” The point is that religion is based on faith. Adherents are taught not to think for themselves but rather to believe what they are told. That goes for Catholics and Pentecostals. The biggest difference is that Catholics are allowed to pick and choose which words of god are really the words of god and which no longer apply. How do you choose? And how does Catholism differ in general form, “massive fan base who’ll believe everything they say as gospel and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.” You see it right here with people posting that condom use is not effective in the prevention of the spread of HIV.
I graduated from the University of Alabama in Huntsville with a Bachelor in Electrical Engineering in 1982. After graduation I was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the United States army and spent the next 6 years practicing dropping nuclear weapons on West, not East, Germany in order to protect democracy from the godless communists.
When I got out of the military I took a job in the defense industry designing and building things that go fast and blow up with the intended purpose of killing human beings. I returned to school, received my MBA in 1997 and eventually transitioned to management. I work with scientists, engineers, business leaders and government bureaucrats every day. Many of these people are highly intelligent. Many of them believe that God created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. They believe that good science, evolution in particular, is nothing but lies designed to destroy god and country.
Why would these intelligent people believe such unmitigated ****? The answer is religion. They were indoctrinated at an early age to believe that faith trumps all. That no matter what the physical evidence the only thing that matters is what it says in a book that is based on the mythology of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.
Well those are fundamentalists, Baptist and Pentecostal Protestants. What do their beliefs have with Catholics? As Saladin said in The Kingdom of Heaven, “Nothing. Everything.” The point is that religion is based on faith. Adherents are taught not to think for themselves but rather to believe what they are told. That goes for Catholics and Pentecostals. The biggest difference is that Catholics are allowed to pick and choose which words of god are really the words of god and which no longer apply. How do you choose? And how does Catholism differ in general form, “massive fan base who’ll believe everything they say as gospel and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.” You see it right here with people posting that condom use is not effective in the prevention of the spread of HIV.
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Tram_Is_the_Way
Guest
Hence:
A is biased news site with an agenda ( catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=274 ) says comdoms are not effective.
B believes A to be the truth because A is a proponent of B’s belief system.
It might never occur to B that A could be wrong in its information.
C is the unbiased Scientific source with little or no agenda other then to provide the information and the protection against diseases, etc. (cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm) that says Condoms are effective.
B normally ignores C because it contradicts A.
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PadraigPearce
Guest
I assume that means 85% effectiveness over one year. So out of 100 couples 15 will give AIDS to their spouse over the year. Which seems more moral, that or the couples living chastely as the Church suggests? I know sex is a basic instinct, but I hope if it were me I would have the will power and spiritual resolve to not inflict AIDS on my wife just because I was horny. Is sex so important that we should kill ourselves for it?
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edwest2
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Free publicity? Let me see if I follow. He said something offensive to Catholics but it was to get people who like to hear anti-Catholics comments to watch his show?
Peace,
Ed
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AnotherAtheist
Guest
As many of these couples, even the Catholics, aren’t living chastely what seems more moral. Letting them all die or saving some percentage of those who might choose to wear condoms if the Pope would but say it was OK to do so?
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st_lucy
Guest
So you are saying that the Pope should tell these couples that it is okay to kill your spouse? If a couple has sex 100 times they are only safe 85 of those times. Now I am not too sure about you but on average a married couple will have sex far more times then 100 with in one year, so their chance of getting aids goes up with every chance.
I am sorry but as a spouse your goal is to protect your spouse from harm and if you are the harm then you should live a chaste life.
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PadraigPearce
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I still think it’s a false dilemma. You’re assuming they’re not wearing condoms because of their beliefs, but that doesn’t carry over into other behaviours. Why would people take the condom prohibition seriously but not the one about not sleeping around?
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AnotherAtheist
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I am saying that if the Pope told these people it was imperative to wear condoms if they choose to have sex that it would save lives. I don’t have a problem with attempting to teach abstinence. I just believe that a system that only teaches abstinence is about as effective at controlling the spread of STDs as it is controlling teen pregnancy.
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Bluegoat
Guest
One thought I have is that in America there are fewer material examples of religious institutions or endeavors from the past that point to a great spiritual or especially intellectual tradition as most understand it.Perhaps its the state of a secular society that sees no ‘threat’ from religion. They can lampoon, without being sacreligious or mean-spirited. The ‘Father Ted’ series from Ireland is a case in point. It’s silly, and never crosses the line. Although some here might disagree.
But in America, many ‘comedienes’ come off, not as funny, but mean-spirited and angry.
We Yanks could learn much from our cousins across the pond.
Rowan Atkinson in The Black Adder: “You see, the thing about heaven is that heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in heaven. Like, well, singing, talking to God, watering pot plants.”
Many early American settlers were people from religious groups looking to get away from oppressors in Europe. Many of them were very Bible-only, basic approaches to religion. Although Catholics numbered among them, they tended to be poor, less-educated Catholics. Many of the founding fathers were not conventionally religious, but something more like deists. In fact, much of the early religious history of the US seems to be in the Enlightenment mode - either very much for the Enlightenment and against traditional intellectual understanding of religion; or against it in a reactionary, faith-only kind of way.
So perhaps Americans, thinking about religion, think about overcoming it’s shackles, or a kind of classical fundamentalism as the two possibilities. And neither of those really makes for a great attitude for comedy.
Unfortunately, I have noticed most Americans are quite foggy on European history, including what came before the US was a factor.
The Europeans, however, are everyday confronted with examples of buildings and institutions that suggest that religion had a real intellectual and spiritual hold on people. And if they know their own history, it is clear that that is indeed the case. So even if personally they think it is all a crock, it is harder to be dismissive of it.
That is my hypothesis anyway, though it’s not really based on as much empirical data as I’d like!
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edwest2
Guest
One in five people in the United Staes has an STD. Fact. What is more important, having sex or being disease free? AIDS is entirely preventable but if people can’t control themselves, then you have people dying from lack of self control. Keep the government out of my bedroom but give me medical help if I choose to have sex in situations where I know I can get an STD, including AIDS? The Pope is far more rational about this.
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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Tram_Is_the_Way
Guest
What if the non infective person is the horny one? Does the infective one deny his mate because his belief says condoms are a no no?
Especially in the light of the following:
The “conjugal act” aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul" CCC 1643 since the marriage bond is to be a sign of the love between God and humanity. CCC 1617
Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice. CCC 1654
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AnotherAtheist
Guest
Most of them probably wouldn’t. However, some percentage of them might.
I would love to post the links to the effectiveness of the Taiwanese government’s education and condom distribution program on the control of STDs in the brothels of Bangkok. Unfortunately the facts would probably just fly right by most on this forum and it would probably be counterproductive. If you are interested in the true effectiveness of such a program look it up.
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st_lucy
Guest
But telling couples where one of them has HIV that it is okay to wear a condom that it is okay because it MIGHT save your spouse life 85% of the time is like telling a couple who likes to play russian roulette that it is okay to play that game because you only have an 15% chance of killing your spouse. It simple irresponsible.
It wasn’t that long ago when it was expected that people would not have sex until marriage. True not all people did do this but the majority did. And guess what STDs was not a problem. Why is it that our very “sophisticated” culture have such little confidence in ourselves to not act like sex crazed maniacs?
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edwest2
Guest
Here’s a few details about the Founders and early religion in America:
eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Peace,
Ed
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AnotherAtheist
Guest
And telling someone you have AIDS so don’t have sex with your wife because we don’t allow you to use the condoms that could protect her from a deadly disease works really well too doesn’t it?
By denying these people an important tool in the prevention of disease YOU are effectively killing them.
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PadraigPearce
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You know, I think the idea of throwing condoms at Africa is representative of a colonial attitude we in the west still have towards that part of the world. It’s as though we think they can’t control themselves sexually, as though they were primitives who can’t control their lust. If I were an African, I might feel a bit condescended towards. We’ve been sending condoms there by the boatload for decades now, and the problem is only getting worse.
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AnotherAtheist
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I’d like to see some documentation for this little fictional statement please. People have been spreading STDs for thousands of years.
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AnotherAtheist
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Condoms are an important part of an effective system of disease control. Not the be all end all. Besides since the Catholics aren’t allowed to use them how are they supposed to help.
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st_lucy
Guest
I am not or the Pope is not effectively killing anyone. IF one wishes to have sex with his partner even after being told that doing so will effectively KILL the one they love then he is the one who is choosing to kill his spouse. But my guess is those couples in Africa are not being told the truth about condom use and its effectiveness, so that case its is those who keep handing out these false hopes that are killing these people.
I know that if I had HIV that could control myself enough not give my DH HIV. IT is called love and sacrifice.
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