Penn & Teller: The Vatican

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JustaServant said:
One last word (hopefully the final one), as these two don’t need any more publicity on this site than they deserve.
Penn and Teller are 911 Truthers.
Their credibility is shot at with just that fact alone.
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what is a 911 truther?
 
paul_c said:
what is a 911 truther?
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911 Truthers are a conspiracy group who believe the terrorist attacks on 911 were an inside job. Buch did it to start the war in Iraq. They have more than a few celebs who believe this, like Willie Nelson, Rosie O’ Donnell (who said on live TV that ‘steel cannot melt’) Jennine Garofalo and others.
Even the John Birch Society beleives they are wackos.
 
JustaServant said:
One last word (hopefully the final one), as these two don’t need any more publicity on this site than they deserve.
Penn and Teller are 911 Truthers.
Their credibility is shot at with just that fact alone.
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That’s not true. They actually did a ******** episode on 9/11 truthers.
 
****This was a despicable piece from two heinous people. I don’t understand why we do not boycott not only them but CBS. They would not allow such an attack on blacks, jews, muslims - why us??? Why are we Catholics so weak in defending our faith? Imagine how many Catholics do not even know that this is happening . . .
 
Alvarillo said:
That’s not true. They actually did a ******** episode on 9/11 truthers.
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Hehe, I would have censured that myself, as it’s the name of the show I didn’t even consider the fact that it is also an insult. Sorry! 😊
 
AnotherAtheist said:
A few thoughts on my leftist views for redhen

I graduated from the University of Alabama in Huntsville with a Bachelor in Electrical Engineering in 1982. After graduation I was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the United States army and spent the next 6 years practicing dropping nuclear weapons on West, not East, Germany in order to protect democracy from the godless communists.

When I got out of the military I took a job in the defense industry designing and building things that go fast and blow up with the intended purpose of killing human beings. I returned to school, received my MBA in 1997 and eventually transitioned to management. I work with scientists, engineers, business leaders and government bureaucrats every day. Many of these people are highly intelligent. Many of them believe that God created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. They believe that good science, evolution in particular, is nothing but lies designed to destroy god and country.

Why would these intelligent people believe such unmitigated ****? The answer is religion. They were indoctrinated at an early age to believe that faith trumps all. That no matter what the physical evidence the only thing that matters is what it says in a book that is based on the mythology of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.

Well those are fundamentalists, Baptist and Pentecostal Protestants. What do their beliefs have with Catholics? As Saladin said in The Kingdom of Heaven, “Nothing. Everything.” The point is that religion is based on faith. Adherents are taught not to think for themselves but rather to believe what they are told. That goes for Catholics and Pentecostals. The biggest difference is that Catholics are allowed to pick and choose which words of god are really the words of god and which no longer apply. How do you choose? And how does Catholism differ in general form, “massive fan base who’ll believe everything they say as gospel and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.” You see it right here with people posting that condom use is not effective in the prevention of the spread of HIV.
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Your atheism is nothing but a phony religion based on blind faith. Atheism is the epitome of anti-intellectualism and shallow thinking. There is plenty of scientific evidence that proves evolution is a lie. For me, people who believe in the nonsense of evolution are like people who believe in a flat earth. You obviously know nothing about the Bible or history. People who believe in the nonsense of atheism are indoctrinated into believing that their limited scope of experience is all that matters or is. It never ceases to amaze me how people who dare not to believe in God will believe in anything.
 
ultramarine said:
Has anyone seen this? For those who don’t know, Penn and Teller are two atheists who have a series on Showtime that tries to debunk certain beliefs, philosophies, groups, etc. The other night they had a show devoted to the Vatican. It is available for viewing here if you wish to watch it. Please be aware that the show contains coarse language. Bill Donahue has issued a response regarding this show, but I would also be interested in reading other Catholic responses. Thank you.
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A couple of times I happened to see their show while switching channels. I think the single most descriptive word for Penn and Teller is “arrogant”. I wasn’t aware they were magicians, since their show mainly seemed to consist of debunking, and ridiculing others.

That doesn’t mean all their victims are innocent either. But as a rule I wouldn’t bother listening to them. They’re not worth the time.
 
havana1 said:
I wasted a half-hour watching the show, a half-hour I’ll never get back. (I would have rather watched the Sopranos-y cliffhanger season-finale of “Weed” again.)

I’m putting this in caps to get people’s attention, not because I’m yelling: WHERE ARE ALL THE POINT-BY-POINT REBUTTALS??? I CAN’T FIND ANY–!! THEY CITED ABOUT THREE ENCYCLICALS, INCLUDING ONE THAT REQUIRED BISHOPS TO ‘COVER-UP’ THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN, AND NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THAT. WHY NOT??

Rather than waste more of this thread on tit-for-tat about Catholic teaching on prophylactics - because, gosh, that certainly hasn’t been talked about ad nauseum, can anybody who WATCHED the show provide some rebuttals?

A perfectly good thread to defend the Catholic faith (give an answer for…isn’t that apologetics is supposed to be?), and it’s going to waste arguing over some mickey-mouse stuff that’s already been discussed before, long before Penn & Teller were even born. I just don’t get it. Talk about a ‘mis-labeled’ thread… :confused:

Rebuttals? Anyone? Bueller…Bueller?? :confused:
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Sorry for the slow response - I’ve been offline for a while.

Regarding the 1962 Vatican document mandating “cover up” of child sexual abuse - there wasn’t one. CBS should have known this was pure BS (apt name for the show, if you ask me) as the document was the subject of an August 2, 2007, CBS news report (and I believe also of a similar misreport by the BBC in 2003 - old news) . There as well the CBS reporting was outright bad, if not knowingly dishonest. Here’s the scoop: catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=51437 (second item), and catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=24023 (main item).

CBS still provides a link to the original 1962 document in Latin (cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/crimenlatinfull.pdf) but looks like the link to the English version has been removed (cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/crimales.pdf) - I don’t wonder why.

I’m pretty sure I saw the English version last time a searched (right after watching the Penn & Teller episode), but have no time to look it up now - I think I hit it on my first google search, though. I recall thinking only a complete idiot (or someone blinded by their own agenda) could come to the conclusion Penn & Teller are claiming.

Peace all.
 
Sorry, I may have screwed up that first link, and got my dates crossed (sure feels like a Monday morning). Here’s a quote to give you the gist:
The Vatican document deals exclusively with solicitation: an offense which, by definition, occurs within the context of the Sacrament of Penance. And since that sacrament is protected by a shroud of absolute secrecy, the procedures for dealing with this ecclesiastical crime also invoke secrecy.
In short, by demanding secrecy in the treatment of these crimes, the Vatican was protecting the secrecy of the confessional. The policy outlined in that 1962 document is clearly not intended to protect predatory priests; on the contrary, the Vatican makes it clear that guilty priests should be severely punished and promptly removed from ministry. It is important to keep in mind that the 1962 Vatican Instruction dealt exclusively with “solicitation” as that term is understood in ecclesiastical usage, under the terms of the Code of Canon Law. The policies set forth by Cardinal Ottaviani do *not *pertain to the sexual misdeeds of clerics, but to the efforts by priest to *obtain *sexual favors though the misuse of their confessional role.
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I need to hunt down the English version when I can find the time.
 
tassitus said:
Hey! You ARE infoguy, huh?

Thanks for tracking that down - it leads to this fuller “rebuttal”: themediareport.com/sep2009/penn-teller-lies.htm

“Once again, the world is spinning in greased grooves…”
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I haven’t checked out all the links but two things really caught my eye.

On number 4.

“Penn and Teller conveniently left out the fact that it is already part of official Catholic teaching that gays be treated respectfully.”

No they didn’t, right after the segment in question one of their guests said that it’s a basic Catholic teaching that all people be treated with respect.

“Why didn’t the Vatican support the resolution? Well, like a lot of people, it smelled a hidden political agenda. (Gay marriage, anyone?) But within days of opposing the U.N. resolution, the Vatican re-issued its call to eliminate criminal penalties against homosexuals.”

A. They mentioned the Vatican’s reasons for not supporting it (they weren’t convinced as you’d guess)
B. The Vatican’s still opposing the resolution
C. They mention later that it’s not a sin to be gay under Catholicism

As for number 5, Penn and Teller were talking about individual use, Donahue’s talking about widespread encouragement and programs.
 
Do people actually expect fair treatment of Christianity, much less sound theology, from popular entertainers?
 
244Rocket said:
I saw these two in Vegas years ago. They brought a little kid up on stage and were using foul language while he was up there. I never watched them again. Classless people.
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Define foul language, I’ve seen their vegas act and didn’t hear them swear once.
 
tassitus said:
Hey! You ARE infoguy, huh?

Thanks for tracking that down - it leads to this fuller “rebuttal”: themediareport.com/sep2009/penn-teller-lies.htm

“Once again, the world is spinning in greased grooves…”
Click to expand...
I haven’t checked out all the links but two things really caught my eye.

On number 4.

“Penn and Teller conveniently left out the fact that it is already part of official Catholic teaching that gays be treated respectfully.”

No they didn’t, right after the segment in question one of their guests said that it’s a basic Catholic teaching that all people be treated with respect.

“Why didn’t the Vatican support the resolution? Well, like a lot of people, it smelled a hidden political agenda. (Gay marriage, anyone?) But within days of opposing the U.N. resolution, the Vatican re-issued its call to eliminate criminal penalties against homosexuals.”

A. They mentioned the Vatican’s reasons for not supporting it (they weren’t convinced as you’d guess)
B. The Vatican’s still opposing the resolution
C. They mention later that it’s not a sin to be gay under Catholicism

As for number 5, Penn and Teller were talking about individual use, Donahue’s talking about widespread encouragement and programs.
 
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