Pentacostal friend says Catholics are not saved

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Michael68 said:
I would say, “if it isn’t in their misunderstanding of the bible”
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I often hear, even from some Catholics, that protestants have more knowledge of Scripture than Catholics. I think if protestants had more knowledge of Scripture then they would be Catholic. 😉
 
I think a lot of these Protestants (the ones who were raised Catholic but left) have a tendency to have this extreme view because they have to justify why they left the Church.

But I know some who do not have this resentment towards all Chatholics.

Some are hard to know where they actually stand, because they don’t confront the concept at all. If pressed, they may go either way.
 
guanophore said:
This is excellent advice. Many Bible Christians think that the “rituals” of Catholiism obscure the Gospel, so putting it terms they are familiar wth, such as the “personal relationship with Jesus” will help overcome the gap. Since they don’t believe in the Real Presence, they don’t think of the Liturgy as a point of encounter with the risen Christ.

It will also help to communicate love of Scripture. Most Bible Christians do not know that Catholics get more Scripture at Mass than they do at their services. They get more “preaching” but not as much variety. Love of Scripture is a good way to connect with Bible Christians.
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I agree. And Kliska is a great non-Catholic Christian to share with us how she has been encouraged about much of Catholic Teaching because of how some have conveyed the faith to her.

I think the phrase “personal relationship with Jesus” has been embraced by Catholicism in a real way! I was at the Men of Christ conference this weekend and heard it a number of times. My pastor and deacon have used it. So have popes and probably Bishops.

I think there are those who have reacted “cold” towards it on account of the implications some have made when using it. That is, they pit it against “Eucharist centered faith” or something to that nature.

Truth is, I don’t know where it began. Who knows, maybe we could find an ancient saint using the expression. But if it was a non-Catholic Christian who coined the phase, so be it… the Church has embraced it! Either way, it’s an extra-biblical term with good Scriptural meaning, if defined so.
 
PJM said:
GET THE BOOK authored by CAF Founder Karl Keeting

CATHOLICISM & FUNDAMENTALISM…The ATTACK on Romanism by Bible Christians…

Without it one can EASILY be over-matched:thumbsup:

Blessings,
PJM
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yes I need to read this book. I have heard many good things about it.
 
guanophore said:
This is excellent advice. Many Bible Christians think that the “rituals” of Catholiism obscure the Gospel, so putting it terms they are familiar wth, such as the “personal relationship with Jesus” will help overcome the gap. Since they don’t believe in the Real Presence, they don’t think of the Liturgy as a point of encounter with the risen Christ.

It will also help to communicate love of Scripture. Most Bible Christians do not know that Catholics get more Scripture at Mass than they do at their services. They get more “preaching” but not as much variety. Love of Scripture is a good way to connect with Bible Christians.
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FYI Catholics are Bible Christians.
 
rcwitness said:
I agree. And Kliska is a great non-Catholic Christian to share with us how she has been encouraged about much of Catholic Teaching because of how some have conveyed the faith to her.

I think the phrase “personal relationship with Jesus” has been embraced by Catholicism in a real way! I was at the Men of Christ conference this weekend and heard it a number of times. My pastor and deacon have used it. So have popes and probably Bishops.
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Well, I can tell you for me it was listening to Mother Angelica, and reading her teachings. You can’t listen to her, or read her and miss her love of, and relationship with, Jesus… (I know there is many mixed feelings toward her and EWTN amongst Catholics, but from a non-Catholic I can tell ya, she’s effective.) She praises (praised) her Baptist neighbors and other protestants in the areas she saw that they/we emphasize, and she showed forth her love and friendship with the Lord.
 
My Filipino FIL (Ex-Catholic) believes we’re the Anti-Christ. The Pope is Satan and the cardinals are his minions. He really pissed me off. Last year, we had a some fundraising at our church for the people of Taclaban. I felt like not giving them any money, but I did it anyway out of Christian love.
 
I think the problem with folks that go around proclaiming that this person or that person, regardless of their faith tradition, is or is not saved is exhibiting much hubris. they have set themselves up as knowing Gods Heart, Mind , and Will. last I knew it was God, and he alone that knows our fate - Heaven or Hell
 
Kliska said:
Well, I can tell you for me it was listening to Mother Angelica, and reading her teachings. You can’t listen to her, or read her and miss her love of, and relationship with, Jesus… (I know there is many mixed feelings toward her and EWTN amongst Catholics, but from a non-Catholic I can tell ya, she’s effective.) She praises (praised) her Baptist neighbors and other protestants in the areas she saw that they/we emphasize, and she showed forth her love and friendship with the Lord.
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That’s good! And I’ve been inspired by men like Martin Luther King Jr. to Francis Chan! 😉 Not inspired to neglect His Church, but on the contrary, to cherish Jesus no matter what.
 
adf417 said:
If there is a Pentecostal denomination that is teaching “Cathoics are not saved”, can this teaching be an orthodox teaching of the gospel?
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As far as I know, there is no Pentecostal denomination with an official teaching that Catholics are not saved. There are in some quarters of the movement anti-Catholicism, but, as in other Protestant traditions, this anti-Catholicism has diminished considerably in contemporary times.

As to whether this would be an “orthodox teaching of the gospel,” that would be in the eye of the beholder, wouldn’t it? Is initial evidence doctrine “orthodox teaching of the gospel”? A Catholic would have one view while Pentecostals would have another.

I will say that if you believe that the Catholic Church’s more distinctive teachings are deviations from biblical Christianity then there would be things about Catholicism that you’d find unorthodox. Does that mean that all Catholics are not saved? I don’t think it has to mean that at all. I am sure that Jesus Christ is able to save any of us despite the deficiencies in our church’s theological formulas.
adf417 said:
If not is this denomination still considered part of the body of Christ? If yes, explain.
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This is an odd question from the viewpoint of a Pentecostal, I must say. Denominations and church bodies are not “part of the body of Christ” in any case. The Christian Church is a spiritual reality. It is not and cannot be confined, contained, or constrained by any particular human organization. The body of Christ is a living organism whose members are all those who have been saved by grace through faith.

I consider the Catholic Church a Christian Church, so if a church is teaching anti-Catholicism (such as the pope is the anti-Christ or that they practice necromancy) it does bother me. However, I also agree that the Catholic Church teaches theological error (as all churches might, and do, teach). Therefore, if a church notes the theological error it believes the Catholic Church professes in a spirit of love and in service to the truth, I would not be bothered by that. We have an obligation to speak the truth as we see it, especially in theological and spiritual matters.

But, as I see it, these objections to Catholicism should be rationally, theologically and biblically sound–not based on centuries old religious prejudices that were never entirely justified but today are even less convincing.
 
ltwin said:
This is an odd question from the viewpoint of a Pentecostal, I must say. Denominations and church bodies are not “part of the body of Christ” in any case. The Christian Church is a spiritual reality. It is not and cannot be confined, contained, or constrained by any particular human organization. The body of Christ is a living organism whose members are all those who have been saved by grace through faith.
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I don’t think Catholicism considers those communities without a valid Eucharist as “in the body” either. But that might be debatable. Especially because Baptism brings one into the Church.

Individuals, for sure can, through faith in the Gospel, and searching His Scripture, and being Baptized, enter into a Communion of the Body of Christ, though it is an imperfect, or wounded Communion.

It is eating His body, or rejecting to eat His body which determines one’s relation (and I mean all that goes on with an individual making that act of faith, or denial of faith). But in these hard times of accepting Him fully (without altering Him, that is) there are many who are Invincibly Ignorrant. It’s as though it’s become the greater majority!

You see, His Eucharist cannot be altered, or interpreted, or defined, or accept some and not some, It just IS Him, and we either receive or we find reasons not to. Though merely “receiving while not following” is like the man who is better off with a stone chained to his neck and cast into the sea.
 
I guess I should clarify I don’t know which church this woman attended that taught Catholics are not saved. I am thinking whatever church she ran to when her husband asked for a divorce. She was Catholic before that and I think they are the ones who convinced her that she would not find salvation in the Catholic church. And for some reason she has held that belief.
I was curious if Pentecostals felt that way too.
I think if we do get together again and she says that Catholics are not saved I will confront her about it in a respectful way.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I guess I should clarify I don’t know which church this woman attended that taught Catholics are not saved. I am thinking whatever church she ran to when her husband asked for a divorce. She was Catholic before that and I think they are the ones who convinced her that she would not find salvation in the Catholic church. And for some reason she has held that belief.
I was curious if Pentecostals felt that way too.
I think if we do get together again and she says that Catholics are not saved I will confront her about it in a respectful way.
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Well, i can say from experience that most protestants here in S. E. Texas believe Catholics are not saved
 
Michael68 said:
Well, i can say from experience that most protestants here in S. E. Texas believe Catholics are not saved
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Would that be southern Baptists? Seems like they can have quite a jaded attitude when it comes to someone tellin’ 'em what their bible means! 😃
 
rcwitness said:
Would that be southern Baptists? Seems like they can have quite a jaded attitude when it comes to someone tellin’ 'em what their bible means! 😃
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I have a Baptist friend in Oklahoma and I think she believes that way too. 😦
 
rcwitness said:
I think the phrase “personal relationship with Jesus” has been embraced by Catholicism in a real way!

Truth is, I don’t know where it began. Who knows, maybe we could find an ancient saint using the expression. But if it was a non-Catholic Christian who coined the phase, so be it… the Church has embraced it! Either way, it’s an extra-biblical term with good Scriptural meaning, if defined so.
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Here is an article that gives a little of the history behind this term.

It does sound foreign to Catholics because it is a modern innovation, but it does not have to be rejected for that reason.
 
rcwitness said:
Where is PRmerger with those great pictures of… “unique” bible church signs? 😃
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Ugh, hopefully banned. She is arrogant beyond belief and full of nothing but strawman arguments. Never met someone with so much scorn for Christians who congregate at churches not called Catholic.
 
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