B
- Status
B
benhur
Guest
Hi steve,good questions
I’d say, you’ve been paying pretty good attention around the forums
Thank for the grin.
Blessings
R
rcwitness
Guest
I understand. It’s become, however, many many shoes! Like my sister’s closet!
But, so be it. I was thinking the other day… what if we had it our way, and the Church was united. We would still have trials and weeds. There would be more envy and competition for high places. I think the leadership has been relieved of that Spirit since the Reformation. Does that make sense?
B
benhur
Guest
Rc, literally lol.Thank you, good for my bones.I understand. It’s become, however, many many shoes! Like my sister’s closet!
Yes. I have been reading a church history book (Catholic) and as always, it is the good, bad, and ugly. A bit like the bible come to think of it. Definitely times of coveting the “chair”, even simony (but not always, like Pope Gregory for example) The reformation or counter reformation brought some reform , even unity in that end to CC. Of course losing temporal power also aided in focusing on spiritual power/goals.
But yes, I think the phrase of “absolute power corrupts absolutely” was in deference to the CC. There were a few times in history she came close to that ideal even with temporal powers. Even the Puritans tried that and the Mass. Bay Colony.
No I think it is proper to wait for such perfect and unchallenged authority till His return. Gives us something to look forward to. And not that we personally don’t have enough problems in the day, or within our local congregation (as you some times humbly and graciously admit to)
Blessings
R
rcwitness
Guest
Good points. But I won’t refrain from giving her authority in my faith. That’s what it’s about, for me. A personal relationship with Jesus demands a personal relationship With His bride. And so becoming His bride… because there is only one bride, right?
S
steve_b
Guest
Just a few thoughts about that
those references apply to non Catholics as well. Allow me to explain
Re: ignorance
1791 , ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
IOW, as it is also said, once a non Catholic knows the truth of the Catholic Church, and in extension they see the error(s) of being not Catholic, then if one these days isn’t even trying to know the truth, considering today, that information has never in history been so easy to access, then they can be said to avoid knowing the truth, AND they aren’t innocent anymore then of their ignorance of that truth. They are culpable for the error they are in and consequences that follow.
That’s why I gave that reference
Re: “bible” Christians of whatever stripe and forgiveness of mortal sin
What do they do with the following passages ?. It applies to them as well as Catholics
all Emphasis mine
1 John 5:16
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal.There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that." :bigyikes:, So what is a Protestant to do?
1 John 5:17
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
what do Protestants do with those passages? What assurance then do Protestants have for forgiveness of mortal sin when scripture says prayer is NOT a recommended remedy?
Also, in extension, because it’s all tied together
Re: contrition for sin,
Contrition has a condition, an “IF” on it. The same “IF” that Jesus put in His definition for one who really can say they love Him. John 14:15 15 “**If **you love me, you will keep my commandments".
Would you agree, That’s for everyone and not just Catholics?.
If one won’t do things the way Jesus established for the forgiveness of sins, can they really say with assurance their mortal sins are absolved?
1452 , When it (contrition) arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.
THAT’S scripture.
r:
Yet Jesus gives a clear prescription for forgiveness of sin particularly mortal sins, . Call a Catholic priest In Context , Any restrictions on which sins venial or mortal, that are forgivable? NO
the apostles passed their power to forgive sins onto those they ordained
G
guanophore
Guest
I don’t understand how what the Church teaches about this Dogma is different than what you wrote.
What do you think Catholics believe differently from what you wrote?
G
guanophore
Guest
When and how did this ever happen?
I don’t think the Church has “now allowed and imperfect communion”. It is an acknowledgement of the Apostolic teaching that the Trinitarian Baptism is valid. Since those in such ecclesial communities are not exposed to the full Apostolic Faith, they remain imperfectly joined.
I think it has nothing to do with “outside fringe believers”. I think it addresses the millions who are fervent in their Christian faith, but have never been exposed to Catholicism. They stand in the tradition of Apollos, which is not a compromise, but a regrettable and treatable situation.
R
rcwitness
Guest
819*"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
G
guanophore
Guest
G
guanophore
Guest
The Church teaches that it can. This is what is meant by a perfect confession. Your reference to risking the unknown is quite relevant here, since none of us even knows the secrets of our own heart.
R
rcwitness
Guest
I appreciate your way of expressing more accurately what I have primitively blathered.
B
benhur
Guest
Ok Rc , you got me going (was gonna call it a night).
Love the biblical term “Bride” and ‘‘Body" of Christ as synonyms for “church”. You can’t have two brides or two bodies, but yet we define church that divides, separates , or perhaps the CC does in its definition. I also like the original word "ecclesia’’, which is more about a peculiar people, a “called out people” than an organization. Again, the last few councils disagree with my sentiments.
Yet , by my definition and your testimony you are part of the bride/church. And likewise I am part not of the church but the Catholic Church, though separated, by her definition.
Blessings
R
rcwitness
Guest
Two quick things:
One, I said “my faith” in my last post to you. Sorry, I don’t like to call it my faith. I try not to. I try to recognize it as just faith, or the faith. We all assent to as much as we believe is from above. But you got my point, and that was that the Church will have as much authority as we give it, and how much we think Jesus gave it.
Second, your last paragraph… how do you understand the parable of the 10 virgins? What is the oil?
B
benhur
Guest
Hi G,
Perhaps I was to general , for I know there are teachings about folks getting to heaven say if you never heard the gospel, or of Catholic ways, died as infant or child etc ect.
I will rephrase the question, that does not deal with things of that nature.
Do P’s get to heaven , even if thru purgatory, without the two Catholic sacraments they have been told about (Eucharist/Reconciliation) ? And a P can have a mortal sin forgiven without Confessional, and a P can just belief in symbolic or spiritual, forsaking any literal flesh eating that they have heard about, and it all counts as "eating His flesh " for heavenly entrance ?
Blessings
R
rcwitness
Guest
If you have journeyed with Him faithfully, heard His Word and kept it in your heart, and in repentant humility, He will give you His flesh and blood to eat.
Isaiah 6
5And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, theLord*of hosts!”
6*Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar.7And he touched my mouth, and said: “Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.”
Revelations 2
To him who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna
A
adamhovey1988
Guest
South Carolina too. Though, I do know some Protestants that consider me their fellow Christian.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Many here in Florida as well.
M
mlz
Guest
See sounds like someone that did not truely learn about Catholic teaching regardless to her background in Catholic schools, then to be dumped by her husband was looking for God and must have encountered the Lord in Protestantism . She needs to see the fullness of the Catholic Church that she missed. Prayers said.
mlz
mlz
- Status