Pentacostalism

[tqualey]

Hi, ThomasDoubter,

Welcome back! After reading these various posts, I would say that you have received some very good advice.

Being in a remote area of a foreign cuntry would be a trying experience for anyone. Add to this, you have basically ‘nice’ people who appear welcoming and yet try to destroy your attempts at regaining and reigniting your Catholic Faith.

While it may seem that meeting with other Christians is a positve thing to do - and usually it is! In this case, with the ‘other Christians’ being the ones who want to destroy your faith, I would recommend you avoid them. Period. As Po18guy pointed out, St. Paul warned us about those who would twist the Scriptures to fit their own ends - and not try to follow Christ. Continued interaction with this group of Pentecostals, at least as i see it, would be an endangerment to your Catholic Faith - and this would be even more of a danger than going with the pagan group you spoke about! More dangerous, because the pagans probably did not speak favorably about Christ - so, you really knew where they stood. This grop of Pentecostals is speaking about Christ while bad-mouthing the Church He founded on Peter.

Here is a rather rough analogy … but, if any of it fits, just take that in the spirit it is offered. One of the major problems that King Saul had was the many wives he wound up with through political marriages, wars and what-have-you. Most of these gals were idol worshipers - and their constant insistance on having temples built to their idols finally wore Saul down. Now, Saul was warned about not having anything to do with foreign brides - but, continued to associate with them. His failure to honor the One True God cost him most dearly. If we see ‘other Christians’ - especially those who are critizing your Catholic Faith like this ‘foreign wives’ - you should get a sense of the danger you are really in. Saul was many things - but, he wasn’t stupid! Saul was just overwhelmed because he did not want to lose a possible advantage by taking just one more wife! Hey, I told you it was a rough analogy…

Next month, my wife and I will have been married 40 years. I know full well what she wants done in particular areas … the idea of more than one (much less a 1,000+) doing this is truly a fearful thought! Better not to even begin going down that road…

God bless

I agree - the questions I have regarding the Catholic Church are not so much questions, as people’s prejudices wrapped up in question form! And yes, they invariably cite so extreme a hypothesis that it would need a Catholic scholar to answer them.

Still, if they can gain satisfaction from stumping somebody they know is a complete initiate, okay…whatever floats their boat. However I look forward to the day I can defend my Church effectively!

The ‘accident in the forest’ statement was a friend of mine who is a pagan. It is his way of joking that it will be him pulling the trigger when next we are out, if I turn to Christianity!

One oft-asked, trivial question that bugs me, and for which I have no answer other than ‘‘Marriage is a solemn and binding contract before God - till death us do part’’, is when I am asked ‘‘what if two people simply don’t love each other any more? Are you saying they must separate and never take another person again?’’

Here is the most recent extreme hypothesis/question thrown at me:

*This from the TV series ‘The Sopranos’. ''A woman is married to a mobster and she is a devout Catholic. She lives off money that she knows comes from crime. She knows her husband is unfaithful to her. She does nor love her husband anymore. Her priest has said that she must not spend his money. She must shun the materialistic life she had built for herself. She should earn her own money, so she did not spend his ill-gotten gains. But she MUST stay with him.

But the reality is, his money keeps her in the house she is in, and feeds and clothes her children. Provides them with a priviliged education. She cannot avoid benefitting from the money gotten by sin.

Is it not a bigger sin to stay with such a man - a murderer, adulterer and thief - than to divorce him? Are you telling me that it is a lesser sin to live off money made by murder, prostitution and extortion, than it is to divorce?’’*

The triumphant look when I said I couldn’t answer that one without help was something to behold! It was as if they had pulled down my whole fledgling belief in the Church with one question!!!

 

[po18guy]

And yes, they invariably cite so extreme a hypothesis that it would need a Catholic scholar to answer them.

What strikes me is that the very form of the question is illogical. The manner in which such a question is posed precludes a “proper” answer.

Still, if they can gain satisfaction from stumping somebody they know is a complete initiate, okay…whatever floats their boat. However I look forward to the day I can defend my Church effectively!

You have properly identified their goal: either to stop conversation on the subject, or to lead you away from what you believe - essentially to cause you to believe less…

The ‘accident in the forest’ statement was a friend of mine who is a pagan. It is his way of joking that it will be him pulling the trigger when next we are out, if I turn to Christianity!

Tell him that God’s commandments alone stop you from pulling the trigger!

One oft-asked, trivial question that bugs me, and for which I have no answer other than ‘‘Marriage is a solemn and binding contract before God - till death us do part’’, is when I am asked ‘‘what if two people simply don’t love each other any more? Are you saying they must separate and never take another person again?’’

Love is a decision, just as the cessation of love is also a decision. one must not enter into a worldly contract or Sacrament of faith lightly. Both have temporal ramifications - one has also eternal consequences. Within an orderly society, the maintenance of a bond, whether business, legal or moral is a bit of the fabric of society. Make a small tear, and the whole will suffer.

This from the TV series ‘The Sopranos’. ''A woman is married to a mobster and she is a devout Catholic. She lives off money that she knows comes from crime. She knows her husband is unfaithful to her. She does nor love her husband anymore. Her priest has said that she must not spend his money. She must shun the materialistic life she had built for herself. She should earn her own money, so she did not spend his ill-gotten gains. But she MUST stay with him. First, this is a non-existent situation. Such hypothetical situations are the devil’s delight. The morality of the situation applies to all, whether Christian or pagan, since morals are an absolute. The tossing in of the term “Catholic” is a straw man argument. Might just as well say “plumber” or “MP”. Morally, it would be identical. However, once married a husband and wife are considered one flesh. Should the wife abandon the eternal soul of her husband because things have gone wrong? Does the questioner object simply because the priest’s advice seem difficult? Pagans look at complex situations with an acidic simplicity. Their advice is corrosive to society. First, they would probably not have marriage at all. This would make their world resemble pub life, in which relationships have no meaning other than immediate gratification. One is free to leave at any point. This is a foundation not only of sand, but of quicksand.
ThomasDoubter;7311787:

But the reality is, his money keeps her in the house she is in, and feeds and clothes her children. Provides them with a priviliged education. She cannot avoid benefitting from the money gotten by sin.

Her duty has become, unfortunately, to simply pray for his conversion and to remind him of the evil that he is engaged in, and the “blood money” that he is handling.

Is it not a bigger sin to stay with such a man - a murderer, adulterer and thief - than to divorce him? Are you telling me that it is a lesser sin to live off money made by murder, prostitution and extortion, than it is to divorce?’’

We mustn’t discount the flexibility of the human heart. The man can repent and convert away from his lifestyle. Love is proved not by the good times in one’s life, but by the steadfastness shown in the bad. Again, this situation is made up and only very rarely occurs in actuality.

The triumphant look when I said I couldn’t answer that one without help was something to behold! It was as if they had pulled down my whole fledgling belief in the Church with one question!!!

There is no proper answer for this person, since their purpose is negative by nature. Their purpose seems either to place themselves in superior position, or simply to lead you away from your position toward a condition the same as theirs - one of relativism. In the extreme, their philosophy has lead to abortion and euthanasia as practical “solutions” to complex moral dilemmas.

Might ask in return if they believe in anything at all.

 

[ThomasDoubter]

Once again po18guy, a concise and helpful breakdown! I know these are petty, hypothethical questions, but it seems as though a Catholic encounters this type of question more than most.

I can’t think of any Protestant believers that I know, getting a similar grilling. Maybe it’s just a case that certain people feel threatened by the Catholic Church!

 

[po18guy]

Once again po18guy, a concise and helpful breakdown! I know these are petty, hypothethical questions, but it seems as though a Catholic encounters this type of question more than most.

I can’t think of any Protestant believers that I know, getting a similar grilling. Maybe it’s just a case that certain people feel threatened by the Catholic Church!

Reluctance and/or doubt produces the hypothetical, in all areas of life. Look at it this way: Our Lord is the Head of His Church, and we are His members. He prophesied “If the world hates you, remember that it hated Me first” (John 15:18). The Church, through her members, still pays the price for the Truth that is Jesus Christ. Pilate, who represented the world, asked Jesus, Who came to bear witness to the truth, “Qui est veritas?” or “What is truth?” (John 18:38) Relativism is not a product of our age - it has always existed.