Pentecostalism?

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I was wondering, why did some catholics leave the church to go to those pentecostal churches? Especially Latino/Mexican Catholics…

I read an old post here recently that says-pentecostalism is Catholicism without a preist… but I used to go to pentecostal/evangelical churches before for about 6 years. and ut seened to me that they only have their own traditions and they don’t really have any sacraments and/or they don’t take seriously baptism or communion…and for them-repentance/altar calls is how they deal with sins. But, I noticed that for most men in those churches it was a power trip/power struggle. and the pentecostal churches didn’t seem to take the Bbile too seriously either. And they focus more on the Holy Spirit than on Jesus.

So, what do you think?
 
Pentecostals have a lot in common with other evangelical churches, but we tend to be more enthusiastic and open to emotional expression in worship. They are also more open to “surprises of the Spirit” and permit more liberty in worship. This openness to the Spirit and a less rationalistic understanding of Christianity seems to be attractive to those in Latin America and Africa.

We do not emphasize the Holy Spirit more than Christ. On the contrary, the only way to understand the Holy Spirit’s role is by first understanding who Jesus is. The Holy Spirit comes to glorify Jesus. There is already a thread which asks this question: U.S. Hispanics Choose Churches Outside Catholicism.

You may also find these helpful in understanding the growth of Pentecostalism:

American Public Media segment on Pentecostalism in America
The Pew Forum’s Spirit and Power: A 10-Country Survey on Pentecostalism
Margaret Poloma’s article The Spirit Bade Me Go:Pentecostalism and Global Religion
USC’s Pentecostal and Charismatic Research Initiative
 
Jason,
It is a good question as to why they left the church. You can have it all right here. The Charismatic Catholic Renewal is as close to the Pentecostal church as I have seen, but we still have Jesus in the Eucharist. One thing about the Catholic church it is has many movements for people to express their faith in many ways. The last 3 Popes have endorsed the Charismatic Renewal and in fact, Fr. Rainero Cantalamessa, the papal household priest for the last 20 years is very Charismatic. You may not see the raising of hands and speaking in tongues in the mass, but outside of that, the prayer groups are using all of the spiritul gifts. There are many Life in the Spirit Seminars and Conferences where Catholics can experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit.

Check out this website. nsc-chariscenter.org/
 
jason3477 said:
I was wondering, why did some catholics leave the church to go to those pentecostal churches? Especially Latino/Mexican Catholics…

I read an old post here recently that says-pentecostalism is Catholicism without a preist… but I used to go to pentecostal/evangelical churches before for about 6 years. and ut seened to me that they only have their own traditions and they don’t really have any sacraments and/or they don’t take seriously baptism or communion…and for them-repentance/altar calls is how they deal with sins. But, I noticed that for most men in those churches it was a power trip/power struggle. and the pentecostal churches didn’t seem to take the Bbile too seriously either. And they focus more on the Holy Spirit than on Jesus.

So, what do you think?
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I agree with all of what you say. I used to go to a pentacostal church, in fact several of them before I became Catholic. I would more truthfully say that Lutheranism or Anglicanism is Catholicism without a priest since their worship services are liturgical like the Catholic Mass. Altar calls are how pentacostals/evangelicals are “saved” whereas for Catholics, salvation is the result of baptism and living according to the Lord’s commandments (In other words, Catholic salvation is a process rather than a one time experience)
 
jason3477 said:
…But, I noticed that for most men in those churches it was a power trip/power struggle. and the pentecostal churches didn’t seem to take the Bbile too seriously either…

So, what do you think?
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I think generally people leave the Catholic Church because they don’t fully understand the teachings and so they become targets of missionary efforts of other Churches, and/or they have been badly let down by wolves within the Church, ie abuse, hypocrisy from those with authority in the Church.

I think your judgement on ‘most men’ and saying Pentecostals don’t take the bible seriously is a huge generalization and somewhat lacking in Christian charity.
 
As a former member of the Assemblies of God I’d say that the immediate emotional results of that type of prayer attracts many. Getting that “jolt” of energy and having others who are experiencing the same sort of highs you are is very alluring. Couple that with a solid trinitarian core belief and it’s quite appealing.

The down side is that you always feel like you should be “getting something” and when you don’t that something is terribly wrong with you. Also, in my situation (I can’t and won’t speak for all Pentecostals everywhere) it was too insular and easily self-deceiving. I knew people who unabashedly claimed they didn’t sin and were already perfect. And the group’s intolerance of any behavior they feel is outside their bounds meant shunning.

When I was in the Assemblies of God no one questioned its teachings, so there was sense of being absolutely certain about everything all the time, which was also very comforting for many people. The Catholic sensibility isn’t about that–it’s about growing towards understanding certain truths, not just stating them and never being allowed to ask why.

And although there is no liturgy, every service I ever attended went exactly the same way. Sure, time was allowed for the “Spirit to move”, but first there were hymns, a sermon, a collection, maybe communion, etc. It wasn’t completely free-flowing like a prayer meeting–there was form and order. People were encouraged to let their emotions go as they pleased, but woe to the person who let them go during the sermon. The pastors expected obedience and they got it, as well. A lot of Hispanics were taught to obey their priests without question, which is why it is so easy for them to transfer that obedience over to a Pentecostal pastor.

Those are some of my observations which may vary with others’ experiences in their area of the globe.
 
I was raised in a traditional Pentecostal background:The Church of God based out of Cleveland, Tennessee. My wife was raised very strict Pentecostal in the United Pentecostal Conference. (They will often refer to themselves as ‘apostolic’. They can be identified by uncut hair for the women, dresses or skirts only, no makeup, etc.) I found my way home to the Catholic Church. The biggest difference that comes immediately to mind (there are many many differences) is the focus. Pentecostals tend to focus on emotional encounters with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, fast paced worship music, baptism by fire (or the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit), etc. They believe the Communion bread and grape juice (definitely not wine, many Pentecostals take a VERY hard-lined stance on alcohol use) is merely representative and that the actual presence of Christ does not exist within. Some Pentecostals, such as my in-laws, subscribe to a belief called the “oneness” doctrine. Belief in this doctrine is what caused a major split in the mainstream Pentecostal branches. The doctrine basically denies the Trinitarian aspects of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These ‘oneness’ Pentecostals will only baptize someone in the name of Jesus. Now I must say I have generalized much in what I have said. There are many different types of Pentecostal/Charismatic denominations, all with different beliefs.

Referring to your thoughts on many peoples leaving the Catholic Church to go to Pentecostal churches: Pentecostals are GREAT evangelizes. They have a very strong fervor for what they believe. My thought is that maybe these people are searching for something genuine, or maybe they feel let down. I have found the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. We Catholics must get better at letting people know that WE have the Truth of Christ in its entirety! Thanks!
 
Della, I totally understand! I would even feel ‘guilty’ if I wasn’t able to ‘feel’ the Spirit. Reading your response really makes me feel I’m not alone out there!
 
graceandfaith said:
Della, I totally understand! I would even feel ‘guilty’ if I wasn’t able to ‘feel’ the Spirit. Reading your response really makes me feel I’m not alone out there!
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I’m glad you got something from my post. That was another thing about being Pentecostal–they made you feel that if you left them you would be all alone “out there”–as if God only visited their churches. I finally left because I got tired of running after spiritual “highs”. I wanted something solid and lasting. I credit C. S. Lewis for that and J. R. R. Tolkien for my growing interest in and acceptance of the Catholic Church, but that’s another story. 🙂
 
graceandfaith said:
I was raised in a traditional Pentecostal background:The Church of God based out of Cleveland, Tennessee. My wife was raised very strict Pentecostal in the United Pentecostal Conference. (They will often refer to themselves as ‘apostolic’. They can be identified by uncut hair for the women, dresses or skirts only, no makeup, etc.) I found my way home to the Catholic Church. The biggest difference that comes immediately to mind (there are many many differences) is the focus. Pentecostals tend to focus on emotional encounters with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, fast paced worship music, baptism by fire (or the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit), etc. They believe the Communion bread and grape juice (definitely not wine, many Pentecostals take a VERY hard-lined stance on alcohol use) is merely representative and that the actual presence of Christ does not exist within. Some Pentecostals, such as my in-laws, subscribe to a belief called the “oneness” doctrine. Belief in this doctrine is what caused a major split in the mainstream Pentecostal branches. The doctrine basically denies the Trinitarian aspects of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These ‘oneness’ Pentecostals will only baptize someone in the name of Jesus. Now I must say I have generalized much in what I have said. There are many different types of Pentecostal/Charismatic denominations, all with different beliefs.

Referring to your thoughts on many peoples leaving the Catholic Church to go to Pentecostal churches: Pentecostals are GREAT evangelizes. They have a very strong fervor for what they believe. My thought is that maybe these people are searching for something genuine, or maybe they feel let down. I have found the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. We Catholics must get better at letting people know that WE have the Truth of Christ in its entirety! Thanks!
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What exactly is the difference with this “oneness” doctrine and Unitarianism? Could someone explain this to me? Thanks.
 
Honestly its very confusing. They way I’ve heard it explained really sounds like they believe in the Trinity, they just refuse to say that they do. The biggest thing for “Oneness” Pentecostals is the baptism in the name of Jesus only. They focus very much so on Jesus in everything that they do, for instance: ending a prayer in the name of Jesus. I don’t like to use Wikipedia as a reference, but they do have a pretty decent article on Oneness Pentecostals.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism
 
Della said:
I’m glad you got something from my post. That was another thing about being Pentecostal–they made you feel that if you left them you would be all alone “out there”–as if God only visited their churches. I finally left because I got tired of running after spiritual “highs”. I wanted something solid and lasting. I credit C. S. Lewis for that and J. R. R. Tolkien for my growing interest in and acceptance of the Catholic Church, but that’s another story. 🙂
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I should think that running after spiritual ‘highs’ would be akin to running after the ‘highs’ one might get from being on drugs. You have to run after higher highs all the time. No high I ever got going to pentecostal groups ever lasted. I can’t tell you how many “altar calls” I responded to thinking I had lost my salvation because the high wore off. Like you I feel finally like I’m on something solid and lasting after becoming Catholic.
 
LegoGE1947 said:
I agree with all of what you say. I used to go to a pentacostal church, in fact several of them before I became Catholic. I would more truthfully say that Lutheranism or Anglicanism is Catholicism without a priest since their worship services are liturgical like the Catholic Mass. Altar calls are how pentacostals/evangelicals are “saved” whereas for Catholics, salvation is the result of baptism and living according to the Lord’s commandments (In other words, Catholic salvation is a process rather than a one time experience)
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Salvation is considered an experience, but Pentecostals do believe it is progressive as well. A Pentecostal will locate the time he or she was born again at the moment they put their faith in Jesus and asked him to forgive them of their sin, but that does not end the process of sanctification. Pentecostals also believe you have to live according to the Lord’s commandment. It’s not optional. Pentecostals would certainly not agree with the statement that you can defy the Lord’s commandments and still be saved. We call that “backsliding,” and there wont be any backsliders in heaven.
 
graceandfaith said:
Honestly its very confusing. They way I’ve heard it explained really sounds like they believe in the Trinity, they just refuse to say that they do. The biggest thing for “Oneness” Pentecostals is the baptism in the name of Jesus only. They focus very much so on Jesus in everything that they do, for instance: ending a prayer in the name of Jesus. I don’t like to use Wikipedia as a reference, but they do have a pretty decent article on Oneness Pentecostals.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism
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Oneness Pentecostals are far from Trinitarian. They are modalists. They believe that there is only one God (which Trinitarians believe as well) but they differ from other Christians in believing that that one God is Jesus. The Father and the Spirit are simply modes or titles that Jesus has operated under in different times. Under the Old Testament, Jesus operated in the mode of the Father. After his ascension, he works in the world under the mode of the Holy Spirit.

They reject the Trinitarian baptismal formula. They baptize “In the name of Jesus Christ” and any other formula is not valid to them.
 
ltwin said:
Salvation is considered an experience, but Pentecostals do believe it is progressive as well. A Pentecostal will locate the time he or she was born again at the moment they put their faith in Jesus and asked him to forgive them of their sin, but that does not end the process of sanctification. Pentecostals also believe you have to live according to the Lord’s commandment. It’s not optional. Pentecostals would certainly not agree with the statement that you can defy the Lord’s commandments and still be saved. We call that “backsliding,” and there wont be any backsliders in heaven.
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I’ve heard that expression “backsliding” I was really blown away when I became Catholic and they didn’t require me to be rebaptised but accepted my baptism at an Assemby of God Church some 40 years ago because it was a trinitarian baptism. But I would suspect if it was the other way around (a Catholic converting to a Pentecostal group, they would require you to be rebaptised since they don’t even consider Catholicism to be “Christian”)
 
LegoGE1947, I was raised hearing many preachers say that Catholics were not only incorrect, but going to Hell as well. It has been quite ironic that now as I am becoming Catholic, the very church I heard derided my entire life is the most accepting community I’ve ever been a part of. I might have to have a conditional baptism due to my Pentecostal roots.
 
LegoGE1947 said:
I’ve heard that expression “backsliding” I was really blown away when I became Catholic and they didn’t require me to be rebaptised but accepted my baptism at an Assemby of God Church some 40 years ago because it was a trinitarian baptism. But I would suspect if it was the other way around (a Catholic converting to a Pentecostal group, they would require you to be rebaptised since they don’t even consider Catholicism to be “Christian”)
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The Assemblies of God as a denominational body would probably consider the Catholic Church a Christian body with many suspicious practices, like veneration of saints. Today, the Assemblies of God as a whole would consider the Catholic Church a Christian church. The whole “Whore of Babylon” attitude gave way a long time ago, and it was helped in a big way by the Charismatic Movement, which Pentecostals recognize as a work of the Spirit.

A Catholic converting to the Assemblies of God would only have to be rebaptized if they were an infant when it occurred, because Pentecostals believe that one must express faith in Christ for baptism to be valid. However, if a Catholic had been baptized at a later age then their baptism would be entirely acceptable.
 
graceandfaith said:
LegoGE1947, I was raised hearing many preachers say that Catholics were not only incorrect, but going to Hell as well. It has been quite ironic that now as I am becoming Catholic, the very church I heard derided my entire life is the most accepting community I’ve ever been a part of. I might have to have a conditional baptism due to my Pentecostal roots.
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I once heard a Penecostal minister say that over 90% of all catholics are going to hell after having had a discussion with a couple nuns who attended one of his services and "finally agreed to disagree’ with them as the nuns were walking out of his church building.
 
Itwin, I had many of the same suspicions and questions that you have, such as the Saints issue. I just look at it this way. I was raised believing in nothing but the Bible. Don’t get me wrong…the characters in the Bible are amazing in almost every description, but I felt so left out when I started reading about the lives of the Saints! Pick up a book about them, or do some internet reading. You will find that their lives are worthy of veneration! Would you ask a friend or a Christian associate to pray for you? What is the difference between that and someone who we know is in the presence of God? Its not that Catholics pray TO Saints, they ask the Saints to pray FOR them, just as you would a friend here on earth. Keep asking questions! It builds your faith! Have a great day!
 
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