People who have gone to SSPX and FSSP churches

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Fairness? What about humility? Submission? Obedience? These virtues are found in the Saints.

How can anything other than the ego lead them to schism and to obstinately remain there? These traits/qualities/vices are found in the reformers.
 
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I’ve attended FSSP in Denver area. It’s great. Wish there was one closer to my side of town. I’d go all the time.
 
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po18guy said:
Fairness? What about humility? Submission? Obedience? These virtues are found in the Saints.

How can anything other than the ego lead them to schism and to obstinately remain there? These traits/qualities/vices are found in the reformers.
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Well, I’m trying to understand those people, and assume their good intentions. I think in 2019 most attached laity grew up in SSPX, they didn’t create the division. Criticizing them tends to make them more isolated in that system, the walls on the fort go up another foot.

I think some families can be encouraged to join the local Diocesan Latin Mass communities, which are spreading, and participate in orthodox Diocesan ministries, such as prolife.

Saying “You are in schism!” does not help. But getting them to read the actual writings of St Pius X, such as on Catholic Action, or forgotten parts of Pascendi, points out the problems of their current isolation.
 
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po18guy said:
How can anything other than the ego lead them to schism and to obstinately remain there?
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How many posts can we go without someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about claiming the SSPX is schismatic? I suggest reading this topic (or any other on the SSPX).
 
I only go to Latin Masses now. I generally lean toward the Sedevacantist position but attend FSSP masses as well.
 
This may help you. I copy and paste a post from another who shared their experiences with that position:

"As a former sedevacantist I can tell you why I left the position

Sedevacantism is an opinion. Privet individuals do not have the authority to depose a pope.

After 60 years of no Pope, we have no bishops with ordinary juristiction (authority to teach and govern) this is impossible because the Church must always have the mark of FORMAL apostalic succession.

With no legitimate Bishops left and no true Cardinals left, the Church. Lost its entire hierarchy.

Therefore it’s no longer a visible Church, no longer a Church with the attribute of Authority.

These conclusions are contrary to the doctrine on the Church. Read about the Mark’s and atributes of the Church in the Baltimore Caticism #3

Another reason I left sedevacantism is I realised that I’m perfectly FREE to believe and practice the Catholic faith inside the institutional Church.

Inspite of all the crazy things that happened after V 2, not one of them has been placed on me as an obligation of faith.

I still believe EXACTLY as I did before, and still exclusively attended the TLM"
 
commenter said:
The SSPX doesn’t have any parishes, pastors, or bishop Ordinary. Their chapel is not in relationship to a diocese or bishop Ordinary.
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Every SSPX priest publicly prays for Pope Francis and the local Ordinary at every Mass. PF is also prayed for at Benediction, Rosary etc.
 
As I’ve posted before, if the SSPX is in “schism”, then they’re the only schismatics who publicly pray for Pope Francis at every Mass, Benediction etc. I guarantee that the Orthodox who are truly schismatic DON’T pray for PF in any of their services.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
As I’ve posted before, if the SSPX is in “schism”, then they’re the only schismatics who publicly pray for Pope Francis at every Mass, Benediction etc. I guarantee that the Orthodox who are truly schismatic DON’T pray for PF in any of their services.
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No, not in schism.

But in my city, families attached to SSPX tend to be isolated not only from the bad things, but from the many good Catholic things nearby.

They certainly favor prolife, but aren’t part of the regional prolife effort, headquartered in the diocese. SSPX maintains chapels - somewhat isolating families - even in the most solidly orthodox dioceses, which means there’s a lot of good stuff SSPX families are not much involved in.
Perhaps the mom remembers her childhood parish roots, and still has a love/hate connection to her diocese.
But her kids, who grew up in SSPX?

SSPX may never be in schism, but grows farther apart each generation.
 
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Where I’m currently at, it’s the opposite regarding the prolife work: The SSPX (through the Militia Immaculatæ) organises rosary crusades outside a local abortion “clinic”. People from the local churches sometimes come out in support. 😉
 
“TMS1213 said:
This may help you. I copy and paste a post from another who shared their experiences with that position:

"As a former sedevacantist I can tell you why I left the position
Sedevacantism is an opinion. Privet individuals do not have the authority to depose a pope.
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This is mostly correct. Private individuals do not have the authority to depose a pope. A pope deposes himself by committing the sin of heresy. He would be deposed by both canon and divine law. A private individual would only recognize this.
After 60 years of no Pope, we have no bishops with ordinary juristiction (authority to teach and govern) this is impossible because the Church must always have the mark of FORMAL apostalic succession.
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This is not true as there are multiple validly consecrated bishops outside of the new rite. I believe all SSPX bishops as well as SSPV, CMRI and others have been validly consecrated and possess full Apostolic succession and authority.
With no legitimate Bishops left and no true Cardinals left, the Church. Lost its entire hierarchy.
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A sedevacantist would say the church has lost most of its hierarchy, but definitely not all of it. They would also cite the various prophecies that state how much smaller the church would be at the end times which lines up with this.

Therefore it’s no longer a visible Church, no longer a Church with the attribute of Authority.
These conclusions are contrary to the doctrine on the Church. Read about the Mark’s and atributes of the Church in the Baltimore Caticism #3
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The sedevacantist position is that after Vatican II, the hierarchy essentially created a new, Novus Ordo religion. It has new doctrines, new liturgy and new laws, essentially making it a different religion. Looking at it that way, the sedevacantists would be the group maintaining the four marks of the church.
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Bataar said:
I only go to Latin Masses now. I generally lean toward the Sedevacantist position but attend FSSP masses as well.
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I am normally at an FSSP parish but went to SSPX today. Obviously identical Masses. The only thing that surprised me was that they actually did Leonine prayers at the end. I wasn’t expecting that and i didn’t see that at SSPX in France or Italy.
 
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Points well taken. Ultimately, this is a very difficult issue to navigate on a great many levels.
 
Please pardon my ignorance, but what does FSSP and SSPX mean as it relates to churches, and what’s the difference between the two? I’ve honestly never head of either acronym before.
 
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The FSSP are in full communion with the Catholic Church and the SSPX are not.
 
poche said:
The FSSP are in full communion with the Catholic Church and the SSPX are not.
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Here we go again.

FSSPX stands for Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X in Latin (called Society of St. Pius X or SSPX in English).

FSSP stands for Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter.

The SSPX was started in 1970 by Archbishop Lefebvre in order to form priests in the pre-Vatican II theology and liturgy. When they started out they were completely legitimate within the Church.
Abp. Lefebvre wanted to make sure Tradition was passed on, and as his health was waning with age, he petitioned Rome to consecrate one or more bishops. When, in 1988 it became clear to him that the Vatican was jerking him around, never settling on a date for the consecrations, he decided to consecrate four bishops against the without the permission of Rome.
It was this action (perceived to be schismatic by many) that spurred a small group of priests and seminarians to leave the SSPX and create their own Fraternity with the blessing of Rome. These priests are the FSSP.
 
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