People with gender identity issues and sex change surgeries!

[mgreen77]

That’s why I was confused about post #1. If souls don’t have gender, then a post-op transgendered person is not in a homosexual relationship.

Except that some people argue that chromosomes determine sex, not appearance or even sexual function.

So even if a person looks perfectly female and experiences sex (with a man) as any other female would (and his experience with her is as with any other female), it’s considered homosexual sex if her invisible chromosomes happen to be xy.

 

[StAnastasia]

Except that some people argue that chromosomes determine sex, not appearance or even sexual function.

So even if a person looks perfectly female and experiences sex (with a man) as any other female would (and his experience with her is as with any other female), it’s considered homosexual sex if her invisible chromosomes happen to be xy.

That seems like a silly definition. If it swim and quacks and waddles like a duck, it’s a duck for all practical purpose even if the genes say it’s a turtle. If phenotypically a human has all the requisite female bits, for practical purposes she’s a female and can mate with a male. I know there are XY females.

 

[irishpatrick]

I wonder if people who’ve had “near death experiences” experience themselves and the dead relatives they meet as gendered, or as ungendered. If they see them physically, are they clothed or unclothed? If unclothed, are there gender-identifiable bits obscured like they are on TV? If we eat and drink at the “heavenly banquet,” how will we eliminate waste? Or is that “eating and drinking” merely metaphorical?

LOL, all very good questions without any real answers. There are many questions like those–they give me headaches.

I do suspect gender won’t mean much in Heaven and I am sure we will not have a problem with that.

 

[mgreen77]

That seems like a silly definition. If it swim and quacks and waddles like a duck, it’s a duck for all practical purpose even if the genes say it’s a turtle. If phenotypically a human has all the requisite female bits, for practical purposes she’s a female and can mate with a male. I know there are XY females.

It is silly, the error of mixing unrelated contexts together into a single answer.

If someone is looking at cells through a microsope and sees xy chromosomes, then of course it makes sense to say the cells are male, regardless of anything else about how the person looks or functions.

But if someone functions in every way as a female sexually, then it’s the height of irrationality to say she’s a male in terms of intimacy, even if her cells are male.

She may be a male in the context of genetics, but she’s a female in the context of sexuality.

And since the moral question is about sexual relations, you’d think the context used would be current sexuality, yes? Especially if the soul is genderless, since then there’s no “nature” to the soul, it just takes the form of the body it inhabits as it functions in the here and now, not as it did years or decades ago?

 

[irishpatrick]

It is silly, the error of mixing unrelated contexts together into a single answer.

If someone is looking at cells through a microsope and sees xy chromosomes, then of course it makes sense to say the cells are male, regardless of anything else about how the person looks or functions.

But if someone functions in every way as a female sexually, then it’s the height of irrationality to say she’s a male in terms of intimacy, even if her cells are male.

She may be a male in the context of genetics, but she’s a female in the context of sexuality.

And since the moral question is about sexual relations, you’d think the context used would be current sexuality, yes? Especially if the soul is genderless, since then there’s no “nature” to the soul, it just takes the form of the body it inhabits as it functions in the here and now, not as it did years or decades ago?

From a spiritual point of view, does God allow people to have these issues for a reason?

 

[StAnastasia]

From a spiritual point of view, does God allow people to have these issues for a reason?

Perhaps, but I don’t see any evidence for that. Does God abort 20-50% of all pregnancies for a spiritual reason? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

 

[StAnastasia]

LOL, all very good questions without any real answers. There are many questions like those–they give me headaches. I do suspect gender won’t mean much in Heaven and I am sure we will not have a problem with that.

No one has come back from heaven to tell us what it’s like, so it would be rather daring for us to speculate on what body parts we’ll need.

 

[StAnastasia]

She may be a male in the context of genetics, but she’s a female in the context of sexuality.

Yes.

 

[BlueShadow123]

There would be no point in gender in heaven. Its not necessary. And if it is there, it would make no difference. Its not like the men in heaven are stronger like they are on earth. Its not like women in heaven get their monthly ‘gift’.

I just dont see any of that happening.

 

[StAnastasia]

There would be no point in gender in heaven. Its not necessary. And if it is there, it would make no difference. Its not like the men in heaven are stronger like they are on earth. Its not like women in heaven get their monthly ‘gift’. I just dont see any of that happening.

Right, and if there is no gender of souls in heaven, then there should be no gender of souls on earth, and gender applies only to the body. A post-operative FTM who marries a woman is not by definition in a homosexual relationship

 

[BlueShadow123]

Right, and if there is no gender of souls in heaven, then there should be no gender of souls on earth, and gender applies only to the body. A post-operative FTM who marries a woman is not by definition in a homosexual relationship

This has nothing to do with homosexual relationships.

There is gender on earth because that is how we reproduce. Its how we work together.

I do not believe gender will be a problem in heaven. We MIGHT have gender, but that will definitely not change us in anyway. We will be equal.

 

[StAnastasia]

This has nothing to do with homosexual relationships.

Some people seem to think it does. Some seem to think that an FTM transgendered person in a relationship with a female is in a homosexual relationship by virtue of DNA. Some would argue that someone with Swyer syndrome in a relationship with a man is in a homosexual relationship.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Some people seem to think it does. Some seem to think that an FTM transgendered person in a relationship with a female is in a homosexual relationship by virtue of DNA. Some would argue that someone with Swyer syndrome in a relationship with a man is in a homosexual relationship.

Well thats ‘some people’ not me.

 

[irishpatrick]

Perhaps, but I don’t see any evidence for that. Does God abort 20-50% of all pregnancies for a spiritual reason? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I do think God allows trials to come our way, even if we cannot recognize them as such. I do not know what you mean by 20-50% of all pregnancies…

 

[irishpatrick]

Some people seem to think it does. Some seem to think that an FTM transgendered person in a relationship with a female is in a homosexual relationship by virtue of DNA. Some would argue that someone with Swyer syndrome in a relationship with a man is in a homosexual relationship.

If two people have DNA of a genetic male, and they have sex, than one can see why it would be argued they are a homosexual relationship. For example, say a fully genetic (DNA) male gets a sex-change to become a physically appearing female and then the new “she” marries a genetic (DNA) male. That would be two people with male DNA as a couple.

 

[mgreen77]

For example, say a fully genetic (DNA) male gets a sex-change to become a physically appearing female and then the new “she” marries a genetic (DNA) male. That would be two people with male DNA as a couple.

Right, but it’s genitals having sex, not chromosomes

If chromosomes determine morality for intimacy, then we should all be getting tested to make sure our chromosomes match our apparent sex, since genetic mixups do occasionally happen.

Many of us could right now be in a homosexual relationship and not know it!

 

[StAnastasia]

I do think God allows trials to come our way, even if we cannot recognize them as such. I do not know what you mean by 20-50% of all pregnancies…

Embryologists have varying estimates of miscarriage, that range between 20% and 50% of pregnancies. Many pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, without the mother ever knowing she had been pregnant.

 

[StAnastasia]

If two people have DNA of a genetic male, and they have sex, than one can see why it would be argued they are a homosexual relationship. For example, say a fully genetic (DNA) male gets a sex-change to become a physically appearing female and then the new “she” marries a genetic (DNA) male. That would be two people with male DNA as a couple.

A person with Swyer syndrome could end up marrying a man (it has happened) and adopting children. should they divorce, or never have sex just because they are both XY?

 

[MariaTSAngel]

That’s why I was confused about post #1. If souls don’t have gender, then a post-op transgendered person is not in a homosexual relationship.

Neither would a pre-op or non-op transgendered person.

 

[MariaTSAngel]

But isn’t it the desperate, driving need of such people to become as close as possible to their target sex in every possible way, including anatomically?

To do everything within their power, at whatever cost, at whatever risk, to make it “as if” they had been born as they wished, both to themselves and society, removing all reminders of a physical past which they find incredibly humiliating?

Are you saying you want surgery, but consider your own desires to be immoral? Or you’re content “identifying as” a woman, and don’t desire to be anatomically female?

Well, I consider any type of unnecessary genital surgery to be immoral. A person can have a penis and still be female and vice versa. If such a female also takes female hormones then she will eventually have to undergo castration (that is if the female with the penis does have testicles and needs to take hormones to reverse the damage from the testosterone. The more a transgendered female looks like a “normal” female, the less she will be discriminated against and the happier she will feel. Just because a female has a penis does not mean she cannot look like a “normal” female. Genitals on a female are unimportant when it comes to loving a male or being love by a male. Also, no one can even tell what genitals a female has unless she walks around naked.