People with gender identity issues and sex change surgeries!

[irishpatrick]

Personally, aside from the pain it causes some people, I hope that door stays open and questionable. I think some of these moral conundrums are put there by God to teach us; paradoxes to keep us involved and talking to Him, and exercising our conscious

Perhaps. But, what happens when the day comes during which a physical male can actually become a true physical woman? What moral wrestling is left at that point?

 

[davidv]

Perhaps. But, what happens when the day comes during which a physical male can actually become a true physical woman? What moral wrestling is left at that point?

As a unique combination of body and spirit the human person cannot be fully defined by its physical condition. Even if the medical community can some day convert a physical male to what appears to be female, that person’s “true” nature would not be affected.

 

[irishpatrick]

As a unique combination of body and spirit the human person cannot be fully defined by its physical condition. Even if the medical community can some day convert a physical male to what appears to be female, that person’s “true” nature would not be affected.

Again, I wonder. If a physical male is proven to have a similar brain to that of a healthy genetic female, and “he” undergoes a sex change, what is that person, a he or a she?

It seems the Church defines it as genetic, so no matter what happens to the brain, whatever the DNA says is what the person is in terms of gender. I am just not sure it is that simple.

 

[mgreen77]

It seems the Church defines it as genetic, so no matter what happens to the brain, whatever the DNA says is what the person is in terms of gender…

It’s not necessarily even genetic. I suspect that even if science could change every organ and chromosome to that of a biological female, the Church would still say the change itself was artificial, and that one’s invisible “nature” at birth didn’t change.

 

[irishpatrick]

It’s not necessarily even genetic. I suspect that even if science could change every organ and chromosome to that of a biological female, the Church would still say the change itself was artificial, and that one’s invisible “nature” at birth didn’t change.

Again, perhaps. However, if one’s true nature is that of a female, and yet they are born into a male body, how would that line-up with the Church? After all, that is exactly what a gender dysphoric person says is at work, that their real nature is opposite of their physical bodies.

 

[mgreen77]

Again, perhaps. However, if one’s true nature is that of a female, and yet they are born into a male body, how would that line-up with the Church? After all, that is exactly what a gender dysphoric person says is at work, that their real nature is opposite of their physical bodies.

Well it’ll be a neverending debate. The Church will forever define things in ways that best support it’s interelating web of doctrines (God made you physically male or female, and that’s what your invisible nature always is), and transgendered people will forever define things in ways that justify how they feel (I want to be the opposite sex, therefore my nature must “be” the opposite sex).

Personally, I think all this obsessing on an invisible, undetectable, unseen, abstract and totally irrelevant ghostly “nature” is what creates all this confusion. It’s a ghost, a phantom, an artifact of overthinking, like when “it” rains. What’s this “it?”

But we’re not ideas, we’re not the ghostly “it” of labels or ideas; we’re lives lived, people touched, pain and love shared.

 

[irishpatrick]

Well it’ll be a neverending debate. The Church will forever define things in ways that best support it’s interelating web of doctrines (God made you physically male or female, and that’s what your invisible nature always is), and transgendered people will forever define things in ways that justify how they feel (I want to be the opposite sex, therefore my nature must “be” the opposite sex).

Personally, I think all this obsessing on an invisible, undetectable, unseen, abstract and totally irrelevant ghostly “nature” is what creates all this confusion. It’s a ghost, a phantom, an artifact of overthinking, like when “it” rains. What’s this “it?”

But we’re not ideas, we’re not the ghostly “it” of labels or ideas; we’re lives lived, people touched, pain and love shared.

Perhaps it is a cross that should be lovingly embraced.

Perhaps it is their actual nature and should be “fixed.”

I have no clue. But, one thing is certain, people with that condition are not living in a fantasy world, they suffer in real time all the time. Perhaps they are choosing to suffer, hard to say either way.

 

[mgreen77]

Perhaps it is a cross that should be lovingly embraced.

Perhaps.

But do you remember the classic joke about the pious man drowning in the ocean who prays to God to save him? And along comes a helicopter, a boat and a submarine, and each time the man dismisses them saying,* “No need, I’m OK, God will save me.”* And of course he drowns, ends up in Heaven, and asks God why He didn’t save him. And God smiles and says, “Who do you think sent the helicopter, boat and submarine?”

I guess we all have to decide whether our circumstances are a cross to endure… or a challenge to overcome.

 

[davidv]

Perhaps.

But do you remember the classic joke about the pious man drowning in the ocean who prays to God to save him? And along comes a helicopter, a boat and a submarine, and each time the man dismisses them saying,* “No need, I’m OK, God will save me.”* And of course he drowns, ends up in Heaven, and asks God why He didn’t save him. And God smiles and says, “Who do you think sent the helicopter, boat and submarine?”

I guess we all have to decide whether our circumstances are a cross to endure… or a challenge to overcome.

Those circumstances that require immoral means to overcome easily fall into the category of those to endure.

 

[irishpatrick]

Perhaps.

But do you remember the classic joke about the pious man drowning in the ocean who prays to God to save him? And along comes a helicopter, a boat and a submarine, and each time the man dismisses them saying,* “No need, I’m OK, God will save me.”* And of course he drowns, ends up in Heaven, and asks God why He didn’t save him. And God smiles and says, “Who do you think sent the helicopter, boat and submarine?”

I guess we all have to decide whether our circumstances are a cross to endure… or a challenge to overcome.

I have heard several variations of that joke, and have always enjoyed it…

I think though, that when something becomes a true burden and true hardship for a person’s entire life, that can be called a cross. Yet, crosses are also challenges, in that our challenge in life is to find a way to carry our crosses, to accept them and still remain joyful. I do not know of a gender dysphoric person would consider their situation a cross or a challenge, but it seems to me it is both.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Well you have to understand that before you get that surgery you need to have the female hormones given to you.

Take a look at this, it shows a mans perspective on his life as a woman, and I can tell you right now, I would not have guessed that he was previously female based on how he looks now.

youtube.com/watch?v=IeKDN_0ywxU

 

[MariaTSAngel]

Not all transgendered women want to have a surgery to modify or completely modify their genitals. I am a transgendered woman and all I’ll ever do is get castrated or take hormones. I don’t believe in sex reassignment surgery. However, I am sexually attracted to men and, as a result, heterosexual. I have only dated Catholic men and very few of them were ever uncomfortable by the fact that I have a penis. Also, I am a virgin and believe in celibacy before marriage, so I guess that might have been a reason why it didnt make them uncomfortable. Also, you may view a transwoman as male, but it is still respectful to use female pronouns when referring to her, regardless of your viewpoints. We should treat all of our sisters and brothers with respect, no matter what. Further, marring your body beyond medically necessary means is immoral hence the reason why I will retain my penis.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Not all transgendered women want to have a surgery to modify or completely modify their genitals. I am a transgendered woman and all I’ll ever do is get castrated or take hormones. I don’t believe in sex reassignment surgery. However, I am sexually attracted to men and, as a result, heterosexual. I have only dated Catholic men and very few of them were ever uncomfortable by the fact that I have a penis. Also, I am a virgin and believe in celibacy before marriage, so I guess that might have been a reason why it didnt make them uncomfortable. Also, you may view a transwoman as male, but it is still respectful to use female pronouns when referring to her, regardless of your viewpoints. We should treat all of our sisters and brothers with respect, no matter what. Further, marring your body beyond medically necessary means is immoral hence the reason why I will retain my penis.

I’m glad for you to take that step.

 

[MariaTSAngel]

I’m glad for you to take that step.

Well, I try my best to follow what the Lord asks me to do. In the future, I plan to eventually get married to a man who accepts me for who I am and adopt children with him. Hopefully, other people will respect who I am and who I love. If not, then I know that Jesus will be with me. My goal isn’t to be an activist or a public figure. My goal is just to be the best wife, mother, sister, daughter, and, eventually, grandmother and aunt that I can be and to follow Jesus to the best of my ability.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Well, I try my best to follow what the Lord asks me to do. In the future, I plan to eventually get married to a man who accepts me for who I am and adopt children with him. Hopefully, other people will respect who I am and who I love. If not, then I know that Jesus will be with me. My goal isn’t to be an activist or a public figure. My goal is just to be the best wife, mother, sister, daughter, and, eventually, grandmother and aunt that I can be and to follow Jesus to the best of my ability.

Yeah but most people are afraid to take the step of transition. You are a very strong person for doing so.

 

[MariaTSAngel]

Yeah but most people are afraid to take the step of transition. You are a very strong person for doing so.

Many don’t think of it that way, they view me as wrong, immoral, or anti-Catholic. However, I have dedicated my life to the Catholic Church, to what it means to be a Catholic. I have lived with love and acceptance towards every living thing. I have acted with compassion and grace. I would never do anyting that was directly in opposition to Church teaching intentionally. That’s all fellow Catholics should ask of me.

 

[irishpatrick]

Yeah but most people are afraid to take the step of transition. You are a very strong person for doing so.

Why?

 

[BlueShadow123]

Many don’t think of it that way, they view me as wrong, immoral, or anti-Catholic. However, I have dedicated my life to the Catholic Church, to what it means to be a Catholic. I have lived with love and acceptance towards every living thing. I have acted with compassion and grace. I would never do anyting that was directly in opposition to Church teaching intentionally. That’s all fellow Catholics should ask of me.

It’s quite sad how they see you as that. I hope things get better for you. I know that people who usually transition move to a different city and start a new life with their new appearance.

 

[MariaTSAngel]

It’s quite sad how they see you as that. I hope things get better for you. I know that people who usually transition move to a different city and start a new life with their new appearance.

Well, upon going to University, I did move to a new city, in a way. Although, in my first week I was still living as something I wasn’t. However, most people don’t know that. Life can get better or worse. I have a 33% chance of being murdered but I also have Jesus by my side. I just don’t like to hide who I am, so I am openly transgendered for the most part, as in I let other people know.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Well, upon going to University, I did move to a new city, in a way. Although, in my first week I was still living as something I wasn’t. However, most people don’t know that. Life can get better or worse. I have a 33% chance of being murdered but I also have Jesus by my side. I just don’t like to hide who I am, so I am openly transgendered for the most part, as in I let other people know.

Do what you feel is best for yourself.

Of course I couldn’t say that for everybody, but what you are doing is not harming anyone in anyway, so that is why I say do what you feel is best.