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mgreen77
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Because they want to? Or have to?
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BlueShadow123
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Why would they have to?
And usually because they want to. It seems like a smart thing to do so you don’t that much ‘stuff’ thrown at you for changing.
By stuff, I mean vulgar words or gossip
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mgreen77
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Right, kinda what I wondered… if people moved to avoid persecution, or just to have a totally fresh start (even if everyone around them was OK with it).
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BlueShadow123
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Although I would think they were brave if they did stay in the city they were currently in.
I mean a transition is a big difference. its like a new start. so yes, people would definitely say something. The thing is to ignore it and know that this is best for you.
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mgreen77
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Agreed, though I really admire the courage it’d take to start over somewhere else too, abandoning the old, established support system of job and friends to risk a new adventure. It’s similar I’d think to the boldness of changing religions, kinda throwing yourself at the mercy of God’s Will to rebuild yourself again from the ground up, trusting Him to carry you through it.
Ya’d think so, for sure. But life can be mischevious and ironic though. I mean wouldn’t it be something if a change like that (changing sexes) barely causes a ripple in someone’s life, to the point they wonder if they’re losing their mind because no one seemed to notice something that you’d think was, ya know, kinda significant?
Humans are truly endlessly fascinating, surprisingly beautful creatures
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RichP
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Patrick,
I posted answers to most of your questions over in the other thread… Since you have asked several other questions, let me try to address those…
As another poster stated, there are people who do not have XX or XY chromosomes. These intersex people are born with physical characteristics of either both sexes or of opposite characteristics of their predominent chromosomes. Unfortunately, most of these intersex people are infertile depending on their intersex condition. Sometimes the physical characteristics are incomplete or incorrect causing life-threatening issues at birth. Doctors have to perform surgery to correct things as much as possible so save their life. The life of an intersex person is often difficult.
An intersex person is not a transsexual or transgendered person because they have physical conditions from birth identified by chromosomes.
If a physical male has a brain similar to a healty genetic female begs the question as to how his brain got like that. The idea that transsexuals have the brains of the opposite sex assumes that our brains have fixed characteristics determined at or before birth and are unchangeable throughout life. However, science has proven that our brains are very malleable and change size due to many, many things during life. A man may have a brain similar to a woman’s but there is no explanation as why.
As I said in my other post, this is a very difficult situation for everyone involved as each situation is unique. Because this is so complex, there is no one single answer to the question of how the Church should address it.
I posted answers to most of your questions over in the other thread… Since you have asked several other questions, let me try to address those…
Why can’t it be simple as God created us as male and female? (Gen 1:27, 5:2, Mark 10:6)
As another poster stated, there are people who do not have XX or XY chromosomes. These intersex people are born with physical characteristics of either both sexes or of opposite characteristics of their predominent chromosomes. Unfortunately, most of these intersex people are infertile depending on their intersex condition. Sometimes the physical characteristics are incomplete or incorrect causing life-threatening issues at birth. Doctors have to perform surgery to correct things as much as possible so save their life. The life of an intersex person is often difficult.
An intersex person is not a transsexual or transgendered person because they have physical conditions from birth identified by chromosomes.
If a physical male has a brain similar to a healty genetic female begs the question as to how his brain got like that. The idea that transsexuals have the brains of the opposite sex assumes that our brains have fixed characteristics determined at or before birth and are unchangeable throughout life. However, science has proven that our brains are very malleable and change size due to many, many things during life. A man may have a brain similar to a woman’s but there is no explanation as why.
Are the brain, soul, and body discreet and seperate for each person person? Or are they a unified whole? Do our bodies have no role in defining our identity, who we are? Is the brain a dictator, telling the body and soul what to do and who is right? Is our brain infalliable, can it be wrong?Very well reasoned post. Thank you. I have not much to add. I have heard that people with this “condition” might also have had a different brain development process while in utero. I think that too is far from proved or disproved. However, if science can one day prove that a genetic male has a similar brain as that of a healthy genetic female, then boy that will become theologically difficult…talk about a headache.
After all, in that case, which direction do you take? Do you lean towards the female brain or the male body?
Life ain’t easy…
How is one’s true nature determined? One of the issues with gender dysphoria is that it is self-diagnosed. In other words, someone cannot take a blood test, x-ray, MRI, brain scan, etc. to determine if one is gender dysphoric or not. A person who has gender dysphoria thinks that a) their bodies are wrong, very wrong and b) their brains are just fine and they have a difficult time getting through life without bringing their brain and body into harmony.
As I said in my other post, this is a very difficult situation for everyone involved as each situation is unique. Because this is so complex, there is no one single answer to the question of how the Church should address it.
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irishpatrick
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Are you saying a person is more strong to “transition” than if they chose to not follow what they feel is their real nature?
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irishpatrick
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On one hand you state that it should be simple because God created male and female. Than on the other hand you agree with me that it is avery complex issue without an easy answer. Hmmm…which is it?
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davidv
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Like many things Catholic, its both/and, not either/or.On one hand you state that it should be simple because God created male and female. Than on the other hand you agree with me that it is avery complex issue without an easy answer. Hmmm…which is it?
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mgreen77
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But isn’t it the desperate, driving need of such people to become as close as possible to their target sex in every possible way, including anatomically?
To do everything within their power, at whatever cost, at whatever risk, to make it “as if” they had been born as they wished, both to themselves and society, removing all reminders of a physical past which they find incredibly humiliating?
Are you saying you want surgery, but consider your own desires to be immoral? Or you’re content “identifying as” a woman, and don’t desire to be anatomically female?
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BlueShadow123
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No, I’m saying the are a strong person for doing so.
Many transexuals or even gays are afraid to come out to their family, and transition would even be a bigger step.
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irishpatrick
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True, I think it is a brave move. However, I think it is equally brave to intentionally deny one’s own personal nature…a very difficult cross to carry. I am guessing most could not carry such a burden.
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BlueShadow123
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I know somebody who is an intersex. She is mentally a female, but she is born with both privates, and yes, they both ‘work’. She is able to get excited in both ways at the same time.
It is a little different, but she always told me of the hard times in life she had to go through because of this.
Luckily she got married recently to a great man, and I am very proud of her. She is one of the nicest, smartest people I have ever met and I wish her great luck on her journey.
And she a wonderful Christian aswell.
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irishpatrick
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I would in extreme cases like that surgery would be acceptable.
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StAnastasia
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Do souls have gender? I haven’t seen any scientific papers on this question.
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StAnastasia
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Fascinating video – thanks for posting.
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mgreen77
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Googling around, there seems to be much debate
I find though:
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And there’s always the whole thing about God creating us “male and female,” but I don’t know if that refers just to our physical, mortal bodies, or our souls as well?
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irishpatrick
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I doubt gender will mean the same thing in Heaven as it does here. No childbearing, no marriage, how could it?Googling around, there seems to be much debate
I find though:
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And there’s always the whole thing about God creating us “male and female,” but I don’t know if that refers just to our physical, mortal bodies, or our souls as well?
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StAnastasia
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That’s why I was confused about post #1. If souls don’t have gender, then a post-op transgendered person is not in a homosexual relationship.
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StAnastasia
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I wonder if people who’ve had “near death experiences” experience themselves and the dead relatives they meet as gendered, or as ungendered. If they see them physically, are they clothed or unclothed? If unclothed, are there gender-identifiable bits obscured like they are on TV? If we eat and drink at the “heavenly banquet,” how will we eliminate waste? Or is that “eating and drinking” merely metaphorical?
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