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rlg94086
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Emad
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My disbelief in what? Something that is a mystery and I don’t understand? You want me to just accept something like that? This thread isn’t about the sin of Adam, but I do believe that he sinned and then repented and was forgiven.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
You believe that Adam sinned, repented, and was forgiven. Where is this stated–is it in the quran?
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Scholastic17
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Simply put, you can’t understand the action of God to take upon Human flesh without understanding the sin of Adam.
Mother Church teaches that the gravity of an offense is measured by the dignity of the person offended. For example: If you threaten an ordinary man, that is one thing. If you threaten the president, that is quite another thing.
In this case: Adam offended God. God is of infinate dignity. Therefore, the gravity of the offense likewise was infinate.
The one to pay back the debt must be the one who owes the debt. However, man, recieving everything from God, cannot pay that debt back.
Therefore, it was necessary that God come as man to pay back that debt.
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Emad
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Faith101:
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And rely on the Ever-living Who dies not, and celebrate His praise; and Sufficient is He as being aware of the faults of His servants,
Humans die, God doesn’t.
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The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
Nothing is like Him, thus He can’t be human.
19:88-92
And they say: The Beneficent Allah has taken (to Himself) a son. Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent Allah.And it is not worthy of the Beneficent Allah that He should take (to Himself) a son.
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And there is none like unto Him.
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Emad
Guest
So your son punches you, you give your son everything, so in order to pay yourself back you get in a diaper, wet your bed and pants, drink from a bottle, crawl, and drink milk from your mothers nipple? Then you tell yourself you are sorry? Now since your a baby (which you really aren’t, because you’re an adult and it doesn’t befit you to act like a baby, now you claim your an adult and baby at the same time, this is where I am confused) you forgive yourself. No sense at all.
Also why is there only one way for God to forgive Adams sin? He just decides to forgive him and he is forgiven.
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Semper_Fi_1
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Emad… PLEASE use this button:
In order to make another you can use QUOTE=screen name ]bla bla/ QUOTE ]
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Scholastic17
Guest
Sure, he could have done that. But he didn’t. He decided to go to the extreme and show us just how much he loved us. That, I think, is where the Christian understanding of God departs from that of Islam and, to a degree, Judaism.
Love is the central motivating factor of Christ. He opened up his arms for us on the cross as a visible display that his back is not turned to us; he wants us to step into that embrace.
Notably, i believe that your misunderstanding of the two natures of Christ spring forth from your misunderstanding of the application of those natures. Athanasius stated “Not by confusion of the substance, but by taking of the manhood into the Godhead.” God did not fuse himself with manhood. God took manhood into his being. He drew it in.
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Emad
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Tantum ergo:
and Adam disobeyed his Lord, and went astray. Then his Lord chose him, so He turned to him and guided (him).
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and Adam disobeyed his Lord, and went astray. Then his Lord chose him, so He turned to him and guided (him).
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Emad
Guest
Semper Fi:
No thanks, I am happy the way I do it. I am sorry, but it is much easier for me.
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Emad
Guest
This is not the topic of the thread, it isn’t about how God forgave Adam. It is how do you believe in a God who does two opposite things at once? You believe God doesn’t go to the bathroom, then you say he is human which means He does. You say He doesn’t sleep, but then say He became human which means He does. You say He doesn’t forget, but say he became human which means He did forget. There are many more examples of this kind. How can the two be true?
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Emad
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The bolded part is where my misunderstanding comes in. Perhaps that example will make it clearer to you where my misunderstanding is coming from.
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Scholastic17
Guest
I believe God went to the bathroom. Jesus is God; God is a man; Men go to the bathroom; Therefore, God went to the bathroom.
Same as above.
I have to disagree with you here. Jesus, even as a man, didn’t necessarily forget. Sleep and using the bathroom are natural biological functions. Memory results from imperfection of mental capacity. Jesus was a perfect man. He probably, therefore, didn’t forget.
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Tantum_ergo
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I think one of the posters gave you a good example: God does not make Himself into something “imperfect” and thus become “an adult AND a baby”.
God takes on (in the second person of the Trinity) the body and soul of a human being, while CONTINUING to be God. As God, He is still pure spirit. As a human being, He is a pure human being. He is “adding on” (adding “human” TO God), rather than “subtracting”, or "removing from human).
Don’t you believe that God is capable of doing anything? Isn’t He all powerful? If He created us all, why cannot He Himself “add on” or have a UNION of His Godhood with humanity? He is perfect, He cannot make Himself IMPERFECT. . .if He could He would not be God.
God takes on (in the second person of the Trinity) the body and soul of a human being, while CONTINUING to be God. As God, He is still pure spirit. As a human being, He is a pure human being. He is “adding on” (adding “human” TO God), rather than “subtracting”, or "removing from human).
Don’t you believe that God is capable of doing anything? Isn’t He all powerful? If He created us all, why cannot He Himself “add on” or have a UNION of His Godhood with humanity? He is perfect, He cannot make Himself IMPERFECT. . .if He could He would not be God.
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Emad
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Ok, so your God goes to the bathroom. Do you believe your God depends on His creation? Does He need us?
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Emad
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Tantum ergo:
It is impossible to be completely God and completely human. Can you become a brid while continuing to be a human? Can you be a complete fish while being a complete tiger too?
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Scholastic17
Guest
Absolutely not. He doesn’t need his creation. That is what makes his sacrificial love so special.
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Scholastic17
Guest
Dude, you are thinking of things on an entirely physical level. God the Father, to my knowledge, is metaphysical.
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Emad
Guest
So if He goes to the bathroom, that must mean He eats, what happens, if He eats that means He NEEDS food and depends on it for His survival. How can you say that He doesn’t need His creation, but eats, thus needing food?
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Tantum_ergo
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God is all perfect and all powerful. He does not “need” anything the way that we humans or other creatures “need” things such as food, sleep, etc. But since God created us, He obviously loves us and wants us to be with Him. He gives us the choice. It’s ours to make.
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