Perfect + Imperfect = ??

[LilyM]

Emad:

No even if it was partially, that means part of Him depended on food.

He didn’t even in part depend on anything - Jesus existed as part of God before he took on human form, and he exists after having taken on human form - both as spirit and physically, as Catholics believe, in the bread and wine. If he was stuck without food, as he may have been in the desert when he fasted, he wouldn’t have died without it, being God and all. If he experienced hunger and temptation and other aspects of humanity it was because he chose to for our sake, to set an example to us of how we are to deal with such things. His physical form died because he chose to for our sakes, because it has brought us good.

If I am an anthropologist studying a remote tribe in the Amazon, very likely I will choose to live like them for a period of time. This doesn’t change who I am one bit, or limit me except by my own choice. Because there is good to be done by it, I may choose to limit myself in this way. So it is with God.

He ate, sure, not necessarily that he needed to - perhaps so as not to totally intimidate the people around him, just as he didn’t come to Earth as a full-grown human being, but in the normal way as a baby. There were moments when he showed his godliness - as in the Transfiguration - even then it was only partial.

 

[Emad]

I thank everyone for their (name removed by moderator)ut, we aren’t getting anywhere in this thread just going in circles and I don’t have the time for it. Take care all and thank you.

 

[exoflare]

Emad:

No even if it was partially, that means part of Him depended on food.

You can say that as many times as you want, but that’s not going to make it true… we’re all going to exist for eternity with or without food. If you want to remain hung up on such trivial earthly matters, it’s not our problem.

 

[Booklover]

Emad:

I opened a thread about this issue before and I would like to discuss it again. How can God be God (perfect) and man (imperfect) at the same time. Can something be completely black and completely white at the same time? Can someone be blind and see at the same time? Also do Catholics believe God is in everything or can become anything?

As a man, Jesus Christ was perfect, since he was sinless and pure and did not have our fallen nature… As the Catechism states:

457 The Word became flesh for us **in order to save us by reconciling us with God, **who “loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins”: the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world," and "he was revealed to take away sins:

458 The Word became flesh so that thus we might know God’s love:" In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him." "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

459 The Word became flesh to be our model of holiness: “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me”. “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me…" On the mountain of the Transfiguration, the Father commands: “Listen to him!” Jesus is the model for the Beatitudes and the norm of the new law: " Love one another as I have loved you.” This love implies an effective offering of oneself, after his example.

IN BRIEF

479 At the time appointed by God, the only Son of the Father, the eternal Word, that is, the Word and substantial image of the Father, became incarnate; without losing his divine nature he has assumed human nature.

480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.

481 Jesus Christ possesses two natures, one divine and the other human, not confused, but united in the one person of God’s Son.

482 Christ, being true God and true man, has a human intellect and will, perfectly attuned and subject to his divine intellect and divine will, which he has in common with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

483 The Incarnation is therefore the mystery of the wonderful union of the divine and human natures in the one person of the Word.

Hope this helps, Emad!

Vickie

 

[Emad]

Emad:

I thank everyone for their (name removed by moderator)ut, we aren’t getting anywhere in this thread just going in circles and I don’t have the time for it. Take care all and thank you.

 

[Booklover]

Looks like Emad has no answer to what I quoted from the Catechism!

Vickie

 

[exoflare]

Booklover:

Looks like Emad has no answer to what I quoted from the Catechism!

Vickie

It doesn’t matter… it’s his thread to close if he wants to. Don’t treat this like a win-or-lose affair.

 

[Booklover]

exoflare:

It doesn’t matter… it’s his thread to close if he wants to. Don’t treat this like a win-or-lose affair.

I deleted the entry. I did not treat it as a win-or-lose affair! I was just expecting the usual Muslim rebuttal.

Vickie

 

[Emad]

Emad:

I thank everyone for their (name removed by moderator)ut, we aren’t getting anywhere in this thread just going in circles and I don’t have the time for it. Take care all and thank you.

Book this is my reason, I posted it even before you listed your Catechism, which I believe others posted as well before you.

 

[MariaG]

I just jumped over and started to read the thread on the Islamic teaching or view of original sin.

I helped me to better understand Emad’s whole view. Not agree, since I do believe that the first man God made was completely perfect, limited but perfect.

This view is apparently not what Muslims believe.

originally posted by Faith101 post #7
We were not created perfect. Its not a question of pure or impure. Absolute purity and perfection is an attribute that belongs to God, alone.

We were created with free choice, and with that comes the ability to sin. Also, with that, comes the ability to repent. Those who seek the worship of God are in that sin and repent cycle.

In Islam, we believe that a Muslim is born sinless, not perfect, but with a clean slate. We do not inherit our father or a mother’s sin, as Allah states that no soul shall bear the burden of another. The sins that are written against us are those that we have ourselves earned.

In terms of reaching paradise, then it is with Allah’s mercy.

Someone once explained on this forum that original sin does not mean the inheritance of Adam’s sin, but just the ability to sin. If that’s true, than there is no disagreement between this point of view and that of a Muslim’s. The only disagreement would arise when we try to figure out what happens with that ability to sin. In Islam, we believe that through our own active repentance and God’s mercy…those sins are wiped clean. In Christianity, it is the blood of Jesus that wipes those sins clean.

I know you were trying to get us to state our beliefs Emad, but sometimes by telling us your more succintly first, it does not pull the discussion off track, but helps it become more targeted.

I understand now (and from your followup post of when I said I could not understand how you believed God could make an error)
of the difficulties of your understanding the Christian position.

We believe that man was perfectly made, made with limitations but those limitations in no way make that creation less pure or perfect. Because of this, there is no uniting of something that is not pure or perfect, only the perfect human with the perfect God.

You believe perfection can ONLY be an attribute of God. We believe God’s creation’s as He intended them to be and as He made them, were completely perfect.

There are some finer points here that I really don’t understand, but I can see how, with the understanding of Islam on creation, it would be impossible to see how God could be united with man at all.

God bless,
Maria