Looking for a shocker? No. More of a direct answer, since some posted that to Jews it’s O.K. if a Jew converts to any other religion as long as it’s not to Christianity. Someone said that it’s painful for a Jewish family as well when it’s to other faiths. So this answer confirms it. So if the same kind of post comes back again, it won’t be a solid statement. Thank you!I would say yes, other than Judaism, there are no other religions out there that suit Jews. Is that the shocker you were looking for?
Well, you seem to imply the assumption about Jesus’ Messiahship is entirely the Apostles’ and that they kinda bent the meaning of the Scriptures to make them fit the assumption. Not a chance somebody outside of them could have helped them (someone who would not be Saul-Paulos of Tarse) ?Let’s assume for a minute that you never heard of Jesus or Mary. Or that they didn’t exist. After reading the Torah and the Prophets, it would never occur to you that it was discussing Jesus. The only way one finds references to Jesus is if they first assume that Jesus was the Messiah and God and then from that assumption, go back to the texts and look for ways to validate that assumption.
When Shimon Bar-Kochba appeared, and then Shabbatai Zvi, and a few others who were believed to be the Messiah, what do you think had happened to make people believe it was the Messiah indeed? They came AFTER Jesus of Nazareth. Surely, Rabbi Akiva must not have believed that about Bar Kochba just from a thought popping out in his mind? A serious scholar would have checked this out about what should be the characteristics of the promised Messiah, wouldn’t he not? and where would he check that out? I believe the Talmud was not yet published then…Let’s assume for a minute that you never heard of Jesus or Mary. Or that they didn’t exist. After reading the Torah and the Prophets, it would never occur to you that it was discussing Jesus. The only way one finds references to Jesus is if they first assume that Jesus was the Messiah and God and then from that assumption, go back to the texts and look for ways to validate that assumption.
I am not saying this is an improper way to read the Torah and Prophets. But it is a method which is completely alien to Judaism.
What makes you think, HashemEchad, that the quotations from the Scriptures were “distorted” quotations from the Hebrew Bible? Outside Judaea, I thought that the scrolls read in the synagogues were from the Greek Septuagint Bible… which might explain a few differences. Also, were there existing scrolls of commentaries of the Scriptures before they were put together in the Talmud?It is only clear TO YOU (and other Christians). To those Jews (like me) who are very well-versed in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as the Christian testament, it is not so clear.
Christian translators deliberately distorted the meaning of expressions when they translated from the Hebrew to the Greek and Latin. They realized that many of the passages they wanted to refer to Jesus, didn’t sound so clear (notably Is 7;14, Ps 69, Ps 22), so they changed them a bit.(…)
Christianity stands or falls on JUDAISM. Without Judaism, Christianity has no reason to exist. .
That does help, but still… doesn’t the truth matter? In an earlier post you said Judaism works for Jews because if it didn’t they wouldn’t be practicing Judaism, and that this applies to other religions too. Please believe me when I say that if Catholicism is untrue, it is not working for me! I want to know what is real. If it isn’t true, not only is it a huge waste of my time, but I am making major life decisions based on false information. Sure, it has its benefits, but nothing can be as good as knowing the truth.I’m going to jump in here. As Jews, we believe (or should believe based on tradition and text) that God deals with other people in other ways. You can find Jews who would agree with your above post 100%. You can also find long discussions by some of our greatest rabbis about how Balaam was as great a prophet as Moses, because a just God would not limit his truth to Jews only (Balaam, as I am sure you know, was a non-jewish prophet).
I wish everyone would keep that in mind (including me) when posting here.God speaks to people in different ways.
You should say Gentiles should at least believe in God, not, they can follow any religion they want even satanism, all willynilly-like. Otherwise you may be understood as saying something like that.This is a totally erroneous assumption. In Judaism, men and women have different roles to play, just as in the world scheme of things, Jews and Gentiles have different roles to play.
Its not about souls, its about ROLES (hey, that rhymes!)
In Judaism, women are not OBLIGATED to pray at certain times of the day, the way men are. This is partly because women have the major duties of childrearing, which is of primary importance. Women do pray, and must pray, but they are able to do it at any time they are able, unlike men, who must pray three times a day at certain times.
Does this mean women do not “have souls”? NO.
Do you understand what it means to have different ROLES? And that this in no way implies inferiority?
She’s not saying that.You should say Gentiles should at least believe in God, not, they can follow any religion they want even satanism, all willynilly-like. Otherwise you may be understood as saying something like that.
Hum… and I suppose you don’t have to know much about other branches of Judaism, like Conservative, Reform, or Chassidic, if you were an Orthodox Jew, provided you know the tenets of Judaism in general and anything pertaining to Orthodox Judaism, right?You see, Christianity came out of Judaism, our faith did not come out of yours. So while it would be important for you to learn about Jewish ways, beliefs, etc to better understand your own Christian testament, it is not important for us to do the same.
If the neighbour would be a Neo-Nazi, he doesn’t bother me about it, but I happen to discover about it, should I remain peaceful about it?She’s not saying that.
I don’t agree with HashemEchad, but I think it’d be better to criticize her for her actual positions, rather than creating strawmen someplace in the stratosphere.
Say you have a neighbor (named Joe). Nice guy, with a nice family. He supports his family, pays his taxes, waters his lawn, and doesn’t raise hell on saturday nights.
Eventually you find out Joe is privately studying Scientology. He doesn’t bother you about it. Maybe you find some Hubbard stuff laying around when you go over to borrow a wrench or something.
Do you care about this? Does it ruin your day? Of course not. You’re a Catholic and you’re happy to be one. Joe isn’t bothering you. You aren’t bothering Joe. Joe’s family should do what makes them happy. Same as yours.
My own neighbors (and I’ve lived in the same house for several years) might be practicing any number of things. Scientology? Satanism? Islam? I wouldn’t know because it’s none of my business. I wouldn’t care if I did know. They’re nice people. Religion isn’t relevant.
Why should Jews be any different?
If you live in the U.S., you not only should but you’re required to.If the neighbour would be a Neo-Nazi, he doesn’t bother me about it, but I happen to discover about it, should I remain peaceful about it?
It seems that there is a degree of hypocrisy in your post. I am aware of movements that seek to encourage converts to the Christian tradition to return to the Jewish practices, and I understand that the feeling of being an outcast can be quite strong for some of these Christian Jews. You are asking Chrsitans to be quiet while you attempt to undermine the saving work of Christ upon those Jews who come to believe. In other words, you are “ecumenical”–if it serves your goals. The Jews continue to hold a special place, but the New Covenant replaces the old rules of law to which you adhere.Do you understand what a Jewish countermissionary is? We do NOT try to get Gentiles to leave their nonJewish religions, we simply try to RETURN Jews to the religion of their BIRTHRIGHT.
Jews, unlike Gentiles, have a DIVINE COVENANT with God, which is eternal. It is not the same as a “religion”, though it is seen that way by others.
Gentiles are free to adopt any religion they wish; this is because they do not have a Divine Covenant with God.
The Messiah will not come until all Jews are truly following the Torah God commanded us to follow. If they join pagan and other non-Jewish religions and stop keeping Torah, this will not happen.
If a Gentile TRULY loves the Jewish people as they often claim to, they will encourage all Jews to STAY JEWISH and keep Torah.
And why should we Catholics claim her as a “trophy”? It was her decision to become a Catholic. Her family was upset about it.Edith Stein by her own admission (I have read her writings), was an ATHEIST before becoming a Catholic, so I doubt you can claim her as a trophy Jew for the Catholic church. Any acsdemic knowledge she has would not matter either, because your Christian testament says, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”, right?
And if i happen to witness that this person is doing harmful things to Jews, or to synagogues, or to yeshivas, should I still remain quiet?If you live in the U.S., you not only should but you’re required to.
We have something called the first amendment. Maybe you’ve heard about it someplace. It guarantees even the silliest people the right to believe whatever fairy tales they want, no matter how ridiculous.
At this point, crimes are being committed, and it doesn’t matter what belief system the criminal follows; the right thing to do at this point is to contact the police and report the facts of the case, without alluding to the person’s belief system.And if i happen to witness that this person is doing harmful things to Jews, or to synagogues, or to yeshivas, should I still remain quiet?
Then you’re outside the realm of belief, and into “raising hell on Saturday night”. See my original article if you’re unclear on the difference.And if i happen to witness that this person is doing harmful things to Jews, or to synagogues, or to yeshivas, should I still remain quiet?
Whether that neighbor is neo-Nazi, or “proto-Nazi” his neighbor has the responsibility to report any terroristic behavior or talk of genocide.If you live in the U.S., you not only should but you’re required to.
We have something called the first amendment. Maybe you’ve heard about it someplace. It guarantees even the silliest people the right to believe whatever fairy tales they want, no matter how ridiculous.
If by better you mean it has the fullness of truth, than yes my religion is better than all others. If I did not believe this I would not have bothered converting to the Catholic Church; further it was not the work of prostelyzation that led to my conversion. Shouldn’t a devout Jew believe that his religion is the most correct and therefore better than all others. Similarly with a Muslim, Hindu, etc. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all religions can be just as good as the others.But it won’t end until the “my religion is better than yours” business stops.
Hum!.. I don’t think even David and Rosalind Moss would say the things that you just said in this post, Writer.It seems that there is a degree of hypocrisy in your post. I am aware of movements that seek to encourage converts to the Christian tradition to return to the Jewish practices, and I understand that the feeling of being an outcast can be quite strong for some of these Christian Jews. You are asking Chrsitans to be quiet while you attempt to undermine the saving work of Christ upon those Jews who come to believe. In other words, you are “ecumenical”–if it serves your goals. The Jews continue to hold a special place, but the New Covenant replaces the old rules of law to which you adhere.
I’d respectfuly suggest you read the writings of some of those converts. From Roy Schoeman to David and Rosalind Moss. They have a lot of wise things to say, and it sounds like their message is one that you need to listen to.