Permanent Deacons

[gksaoh]

There are some Catholics who feel it is more important to defend the status quo in the church than it is to work for greater access to the sacraments.

One of their rationalizations is that materialism and selfishness are the reasons for lack of vocations. The abundance of permanent deacons gives the lie to that claim.

It is not easy to become a permanent deacon. Since candidates are mature men, the bishops can judge their resumes and reject questionable candidates.

Several years of evening and weekend study are required before ordination. For those fully employed and with families, this requires both dedication and academic competence.

There is no financial reward. Most deacons are part time volunteers. Nor are their church honors. Deacons are not promoted in the hierarchy.

In spite of the sacrifices, there are more than 13,000 serving the people of God. If it were not for the obstacle that most are married, I think 10,000 would accept ordination to the priesthood. They prove the scarcity of vocations is a myth.

 

[threej_lc]

gksaoh:

In spite of the sacrifices, there are more than 13,000 serving the people of God. If it were not for the obstacle that most are married, I think 10,000 would accept ordination to the priesthood. They prove the scarcity of vocations is a myth.

1. First, lets get the numbers straight. 13,000 Deacons is 1/4 the number of the 45,000 priests. Even assuming every married deacon became a priest… that’s barely a dent in the priest shortage.
2. Ability is not vocation. The office of permanent deacon is a different role and a different vocation then the office of priest. God called people separetly to these different posts. People aren’t called to be deacons because they couldn’t make it all the way to priest. They are called to be deacons because they are supposed to be deacons. Otherwise you could also use the argument “100,000 people in the United States are married. If you let married people be priests, I’d guess, maybe 80,000 would join the priesthood.” Just because people are called to one vocation doesn’t imply they are called to the other.
3. I know 4 married deacons personally. None of them would ever accept priestly ordination. Firstly, because it wasn’t the vocationt hey were called to. Secondly, because there is no way they could possibly support their family properly with the duties required of being a priest. For them, the level of deacon is an incredible stress and cross difficult to cary with a family. Finally, because there is no way they could possibly support their parish with the duties owed to their family.

The celibacy of hte priesthood is a rule given by the church. It is ussed to protect her priests and the faithful. It may change eventually, but with today’s culture, that just isn’t feasible.

Josh

 

[Detroit_Sue]

1. First, lets get the numbers straight. 13,000 Deacons is 1/4 the number of the 45,000 priests. Even assuming every married deacon became a priest… that’s barely a dent in the priest shortage.

1. Ability is not vocation. The office of permanent deacon is a different role and a different vocation then the office of priest. God called people separetly to these different posts. People aren’t called to be deacons because they couldn’t make it all the way to priest. They are called to be deacons because they are supposed to be deacons. Otherwise you could also use the argument “100,000 people in the United States are married. If you let married people be priests, I’d guess, maybe 80,000 would join the priesthood.” Just because people are called to one vocation doesn’t imply they are called to the other.
2. I know 4 married deacons personally. None of them would ever accept priestly ordination. Firstly, because it wasn’t the vocationt hey were called to. Secondly, because there is no way they could possibly support their family properly with the duties required of being a priest. For them, the level of deacon is an incredible stress and cross difficult to cary with a family. Finally, because there is no way they could possibly support their parish with the duties owed to their family.

The celibacy of hte priesthood is a rule given by the church. It is ussed to protect her priests and the faithful. It may change eventually, but with today’s culture, that just isn’t feasible.

Josh

However, ANY practicing Catholic male can be elevated to Bishop - even pope.

My husband was called to be a husband and father, and yet yearned to serve God. The permanent diaconate has been a mutually satisfying vocation. However, if I die first, I want him to be a priest, just because he would be so good!

http://www.aodonline.org/NR/rdonlyr...bluywjhjts6ywbwblzqmyf/IAmInYourMidstLogo.gif

 

[Deacon_Ed]

As a permanent deacon let me add my comments. First, I was called to the diaconate, not the priesthood. That’s an entirely different call, one that I was not given.

As a bi-ritual deacon I serve the Latin Church and the Melkite Church. In the latter we are currently discerning whether or not the permanent diaconate is, or should be, a step to the priesthood (for us, marriage is not an issue – we have married priests). The current decision is that only very rarely should the Church look at taking a permanent deacon and moving him into the priesthood.

My children are both grown and on their own, so I only have to support a wife and 2 dogs – but it would still be impossible to expect to be able to meet my financial commitments (mortgage, car payment, insurance, etc.) as a priest.

Deacon Ed

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Interesting post. Just a point of order. The latest number according to the National diaconate group is 17,000 in the U.S.A. It is expected that If trends continue, Permanent Deacons will out number priests in the not too distant future. As was said, we are called to serve in a different way. In our diocese we have had just one fellow elevated to the priesthood from permanent deacon, a while after his wife died. This was an exception for our bishop, who usually does not elevate deacons, who’s wives proceed them in death.

Deacon Tony

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Deacon Tony560:

Interesting post. In our diocese we have had just one fellow elevated to the priesthood from permanent deacon, a while after his wife died. This was an exception for our bishop, who usually does not elevate deacons, who’s wives proceed them in death.

Deacon Tony

Ours, too. It is not customary to elevate deacons, but it has occasionally been done.

 

[stinkcat_14]

How does one become a bi-ritual deacon? I know that for a latin catholic to become a melkite, we would have to get permission of our Bishop first. I have heard of bi-ritual priests, but not deacons.

Just curious.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

stinkcat_14:

How does one become a bi-ritual deacon? I know that for a latin catholic to become a melkite, we would have to get permission of our Bishop first. I have heard of bi-ritual priests, but not deacons.

Just curious.

Becoming a bi-ritual deacon is relatively easy. Simply get permission from the two bishops involved (Latin and Melkite in my case). Of course, then there’s the training and education that’s involved… One prerequisite is that there is a need for one’s services as a bi-ritual deacon. This is not something that’s done just for the fun of it.

Deacon Ed

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

gksaoh:

In spite of the sacrifices, there are more than 13,000 serving the people of God. If it were not for the obstacle that most are married, I think 10,000 would accept ordination to the priesthood. They prove the scarcity of vocations is a myth.

The diaconate is not a holding place for priests.

I dispute your statement here.

The call to be a deacon is different from that of being a priest.

They are different vocations.

Just as bishop is from priest.

 

[BigPaulie]

Deacons Are Cool. BigPaulie

 

[Brendan]

Adding my 2 bits here,

I am studying for the Diaconate in the Archdiocese of Detroit. The calling I have to towards the diaconate, not the priesthood.

They are two entirely seperate callings, two different modes of service.

In fact, one of the men in the program is unmarried, but feels called towards the diaconate, not the priesthood. The Cardinal agrees.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Brendan:

Adding my 2 bits here,

I am studying for the Diaconate in the Archdiocese of Detroit. The calling I have to towards the diaconate, not the priesthood.

They are two entirely seperate callings, two different modes of service.

In fact, one of the men in the program is unmarried, but feels called towards the diaconate, not the priesthood. The Cardinal agrees.

Brendan,

One of our Melkite deacons, Deacon Jim Solomon, serves with the Latin community there. If you happen to run across him, tell him I said hi! He’s a great guy.

Deacon Ed

 

[rwoehmke]

It is an interesting observation that if one goes back only a few years the number of permanent deacons just about equals the shortfall in priests. That is not to say that we might expect many or any of them to become priests if the requirement of celibacy were waived. What occurs to me is that God is calling some married people to an even greater and deeper service to His people, the Church. As the posters above said becoming and staying an active deacon is no picnic. It requires real sacrifice and dedication on the part of both husband and wife. (A wife, who in my opinion, comes very close to being a free of charge deacon.) One of my oldest friends was ordained a deacon many, many years ago and some of my close young friends are studying and praying to become deacons soon. In my opinion we would not have the permenant diaconate today if vocations and ordinations to the priesthood had kept to the rates we saw in the 40’s and 50’s. Perhaps as God’s call to the deaconate is honored we will once again see more vocations to the priesthood.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

rwoehmke:

In my opinion we would not have the permenant diaconate today if vocations and ordinations to the priesthood had kept to the rates we saw in the 40’s and 50’s. Perhaps as God’s call to the deaconate is honored we will once again see more vocations to the priesthood.

I disagree. The Council of Trent had ordered the restoration of the permanent diaconate, but never got around to implementing it. The basic idea of the restoration of the permanent diaconate came about in Germany during World War II when the clergy there were trying to decide how they could best minister to Germany after the war. Because the diaconate is a divinely instituted order (as opposed to the minor orders which are all man-made) it follows that God Himself has decided that we need to be here…

Deacon Ed

 

[Patrick2340]

Deacon Ed:

I disagree. The Council of Trent had ordered the restoration of the permanent diaconate, but never got around to implementing it.

Can you please provide some documentation to support this statement? I’m curious about this.

Thanks.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Patrick2340:

Can you please provide some documentation to support this statement? I’m curious about this.

Thanks.

Surely, happy to do so:

Council of Trent, Session XXIII, Canon 17: “That the functions of holy orders, from the deacon to the janitor,–which functions have been laudably received in the Church from the times of the apostles, and which have been for some time interrupted in very many places,–may be again brought into use in accordance with the sacred canons; and that they may not be traduced by heretics as useless; the holy Synod, burning with the desire of restoring the pristine usage, ordains that, for the future, such functions shall not be exercised but by those who are actually in the said orders; and It exhorts in the Lord all and each of the prelates of the churches, and commands them, that it be their care to restore the said functions, as far as it can be conveniently done, in the cathedral, collegiate, and parochial churches of their dioceses, where the number of the people and the revenues of the church can support it; and, to those who exercise those functions, they shall assign salaries out of some part of the revenues of any simple benefices, or those of the fabric of the church,–if the funds allow of it,–or out of the revenues of both together, of which stipends they may, if negligent, be mulcted in a part, or be wholly deprived thereof, according to the judgment of the Ordinary. And if there should not be unmarried clerics at hand to exercise the functions of the four minor orders, their place may be supplied by married clerics of approved life; provided they have not been twice married, be competent to discharge the said duties, and wear the tonsure and the clerical dress in church.”

Deacon Ed

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Thanks Deacon Ed…Deacon to janitor-that kind of describes my duties.

Deacon Tony

 

[Brendan]

Deacon Tony560:

Thanks Deacon Ed…Deacon to janitor-that kind of describes my duties.

Deacon Tony

The translation I have in my copy of “Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils” says “Deacon to Porter”

as in the minor order.

 

[rwoehmke]

Deacon Ed:

I disagree. The Council of Trent had ordered the restoration of the permanent diaconate, but never got around to implementing it. The basic idea of the restoration of the permanent diaconate came about in Germany during World War II when the clergy there were trying to decide how they could best minister to Germany after the war. Because the diaconate is a divinely instituted order (as opposed to the minor orders which are all man-made) it follows that God Himself has decided that we need to be here…

Deacon Ed

I thought that was what I said, that it was God’s idea to bring back the permanent diaconate. The shortfall in priestly vocations helped to make it a higher priority than it might have otherwise had. Getting around to it sometimes needs a little push from on high.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

rwoehmke:

I thought that was what I said, that it was God’s idea to bring back the permanent diaconate. The shortfall in priestly vocations helped to make it a higher priority than it might have otherwise had. Getting around to it sometimes needs a little push from on high.

No, what you said was:

In my opinion we would not have the permenant diaconate today if vocations and ordinations to the priesthood had kept to the rates we saw in the 40’s and 50’s.

and I disagree that we might not have seen the permanent diaconate. There was very little crisis at the time of Vatican II – although the decline was certainly there. Since deacons are called to a different ministry (that of service rather than priesthood) the Church had discerned the need to restore that call to service as a permanent symbol. The diaconate and the priesthood are not related in that context.

Deacon Ed