Perry backs constitutional change for school prayer

[havana1]

I always wondered why people fight a moment of silence (say 2-5 minutes) at the start of each school day. The students could pray quietly to themselves, or do nothing at all, and each student would pray according to their own faith traditions. I have never understood why that is not a solid compromise position.

Most kids would not do anything–some would pray. Either way, losing a couple minutes won’t hurt anything.

Dumb question: How do you know school kids aren’t already taking a moment of silence on their own? That they aren’t already praying to themselves? I fail to see the necessity of a school having to proclaim a mandatory moment of silence when it’s already being observed in innumerable ways most of us never hear about.Would you like it if a Muslim teacher or an atheist teacher mandated that “moment of silence”? I don’t think so. You probably hear “moment of silence” and automatically think of Miss Landers from ‘Leave It To Beaver.’

 

[irishpatrick]

Dumb question: How do you know school kids aren’t already taking a moment of silence on their own? That they aren’t already praying to themselves? I fail to see the necessity of a school having to proclaim a mandatory moment of silence when it’s already being observed in innumerable ways most of us never hear about.Would you like it if a Muslim teacher or an atheist teacher mandated that “moment of silence”? I don’t think so. You probably hear “moment of silence” and automatically think of Miss Landers from ‘Leave It To Beaver.’

If it is a public school, and a Muslim teacher began the moment of silence, I would have no problem at all with that–none–zero–zilch.

As I stated before, I can understand why some people might object to the school literally leading a Christian prayer (or prayer from any religion), yet in a 2-5 minute moment of silence there is NO religion mentioned or given any preference to in any way. In that scenario students would not know if the other students are praying, or not. It would be called a moment of silence for a reason.

The Miss Landers comment is silly and beneath this conversation.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Dumb question: How do you know school kids aren’t already taking a moment of silence on their own? That they aren’t already praying to themselves? I fail to see the necessity of a school having to proclaim a mandatory moment of silence when it’s already being observed in innumerable ways most of us never hear about.Would you like it if a Muslim teacher or an atheist teacher mandated that “moment of silence”? I don’t think so. You probably hear “moment of silence” and automatically think of Miss Landers from ‘Leave It To Beaver.’

Ummm, if an atheist or Muslim “mandated” a moment of silence, who cares? THey aren’t leading a prayer or anything, so the kids could do whatever they wanted in that “moment”.

 

[irishpatrick]

Thank you…prayer can never be banned…but those who want to use a public institution to promote their beliefs are not happy with that fact.

John

A moment of silence promotes no beliefs. For many students it would be simply silence, while other might very well pray in their own faith traditions–yet in no way would that be any form of the state sponsoring or supporting any religion.

 

[irishpatrick]

Ummm, if an atheist or Muslim “mandated” a moment of silence, who cares? THey aren’t leading a prayer or anything, so the kids could do whatever they wanted in that “moment”.

Exactly. That is why I have never understood why people object to a moment of silence.

 

[havana1]

Exactly. That is why I have never understood why people object to a moment of silence.

Because they already have that moment of silence. How is it possible for me to object to public schools not granting a moment of silence when the school kids already have 2-3 minutes to pray or contemplate whenever they’d like? There’s nothing for me to object to. It’s a “non-issue.” Are you saying school kids - including in public school - don’t have a moment of silence they can take whenever they’d like? That if they pray to themselves a teacher will interrupt them? How would the teacher know they’re praying versus daydreaming or texting or other things kids do?

 

[irishpatrick]

Because they already have that moment of silence. How is it possible for me to object to public schools not granting a moment of silence when the school kids already have 2-3 minutes to pray or contemplate whenever they’d like? There’s nothing for me to object to. It’s a “non-issue.” Are you saying school kids - including in public school - don’t have a moment of silence they can take whenever they’d like? That if they pray to themselves a teacher will interrupt them? How would the teacher know they’re praying versus daydreaming or texting or other things kids do?

I am saying a desiginated moment of silence of 2-5 minutes. While I can understand people objecting to public schools leading actual prayers, providing a moment of silence for prayer or just mental thought is a productive time and it is beyond my ability to understand why any rational person would have a problem with that.

 

[havana1]

I am saying a desiginated moment of silence of 2-5 minutes.

Public school kids can already designate a moment of silence of 2-5 minutes for themselves, just like anyone else can. How is this even an issue? I’m pretty sure in the course of a school day there are numerous pockets of 2-5 minutes that can be freely taken and designated by the student for whatever reason they want. I’m just genuinely incredulous this is even an issue. It’s like being told I object to air being in the room I breathe.

 

[oldcelt]

Brief moments of silence are still practiced in my area’s public schools.

John

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Brief moments of silence are still practiced in my area’s public schools.

John

What I don’t get are those municipalities that forbid moments of silence as violating the establishment clause of the first amendment. Is anyone trying to establish silence as a form of religion?

 

[BernardM]

They are also free to spend 2-5 minutes in prayer before they leave their homes. Why is it necessary for the school to accommodate something that can easily be done at home?

If the entire community wants to why is it your business? The worst thing the progressive movement has wrought is the idea that local communities have a right to self governance free from the Imperial Federal Government.

What I don’t get are those municipalities that forbid moments of silence as violating the establishment clause of the first amendment. Is anyone trying to establish silence as a form of religion?

It is a reflection of the power of lawyers and the judiciary, were one person can control and entire community through legal extortion.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

If the entire community wants to why is it your business? The worst thing the progressive movement has wrought is the idea that local communities have a right to self governance free from the Imperial Federal Government.

It is a reflection of the power of lawyers and the judiciary, were one person can control and entire community through legal extortion.

Did you mean that the worst thing the Progressive Movement has done is extinguished the idea that local governments have the right to self-determination without involving the high and mighty Imperial American government?

 

[incense]

The answer is to get rid of public schools, not try to put a band-aid on a mortal wound.

Are you guys serious in thinking that it’s not important to teach a child right from the beginning, that prayer is an important part of their academic life? What other parts of their life can they separate their faith from? Work? Investing? Marriage?

And exactly how do you expect a first grader, a kinder gardener, or pre-schooler to remember to pray when it’s not reinforced by the adults in authority over them?

Or who’s to show the high school-er that religion isn’t just a child’s game? That it’s real and important? If the Christians don’t think it’s any big deal for kids to spend the majority of their day keeping God out of their words, thoughts and actions, why should a kid think God is important?

You’re all believing the propaganda of separation of church and state. You’re actually separating church from child rearing.

 

[jediliz]

was prayer banned in public schools when Kennedy was shot? When the news came…were school children allowed to pause to pray for the president or would it have been called school sponsored prayer?

Just curious…

And are there instances of children just wanting to pray a prayer before meals but not being allowed to? I don’t mean LEAD a prayer, but just pray for themselves and someone tried to stop them?

 

[poker10]

The answer is to get rid of public schools, not try to put a band-aid on a mortal wound.

And what exactly would you replace public schools with? Anything that received any public funds whatsoever would be a public school. Yes, even charters and with voucher use.

 

[BernardM]

Did you mean that the worst thing the Progressive Movement has done is extinguished the idea that local governments have the right to self-determination without involving the high and mighty Imperial American government?

That is the singular greatest sin progressives have entailed. Modern centralized nation states have caused more suffering than all other entities in history combined.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

That is the singular greatest sin progressives have entailed. Modern centralized nation states have caused more suffering than all other entities in history combined.

 

[oldcelt]

What I don’t get are those municipalities that forbid moments of silence as violating the establishment clause of the first amendment. Is anyone trying to establish silence as a form of religion?

I agree completely…students may think. pray…stare blankly…doesn’t sound like religion to me either.

John

 

[incense]

And what exactly would you replace public schools with? Anything that received any public funds whatsoever would be a public school. Yes, even charters and with voucher use.

They’re called private schools. And the courts have ruled that vouchers don’t cross that imaginary religious separation. But other plans wait in the background, tax credits, for example.

Or we could simply quit taxing people and let them pay for their own schools. After we take away the local property tax, state tax (which is half the budget in my state), and the federal tax, that all go to pay for worthless, soul-destroying schools, it wont’ be so costly.

 

[Holly3278]

That sounds really good to me but to be honest with you, I don’t ever see such a Constitutional Amendment making it through the legislative process, not with all of the liberals in our government.