Perseverance of the Saints

[cfrancis]

Frontline’s use of Lk 14 had me thinking of the parallel parable in Mt 22:
1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,
2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, ‘Tell those who have been invited, “Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast.”’
5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 ‘Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, INVITE (kaleo) to the wedding feast.’
10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
12 and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

The word INVITE:

2564. kaleo kal-eh’-o akin to the base of 2753; to “call” (properly, aloud, but used in a variety of applications, directly or otherwise):–bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-)name (was (called)).

Here the invite is heeded, not universally rejected.
Further, we note that God has chosen, from the foundation of the world, those who would live eternally with Him; I think we agree on that.
The issue is, do we know if we are of the chosen?
The guest who heeded the call and was at the banquet, yet did not wear a wedding garment; did he think he was one of the chosen?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

we agree on that.
The issue is, do we know if we are of the chosen?
The guest who heeded the call and was at the banquet, yet did not wear a wedding garment; did he think he was one of the chosen?

I’ve wondered if this garment could be baptism.

What do you think?

 

[cfrancis]

I’ve wondered if this garment could be baptism.

What do you think?

Yeah, I was pondering the garment. It appears none of the other guests recognized this guest was without the garment.

Baptism…that’s a good idea.

The man’s speechless-ness when confronted by God…that hits a nerve, though I can’t articulate my thoughts just yet. It’s either an admission of not doing that which he knew had to be done (wear a wedding garment, so baptism would fit again); or, it’s a not knowing what to say, by ignorance, by shock, both…

 

[Frontline]

Speaking hypothetically, but reverently, we can say, that if God had done nothing more than given Christ to die for sinners, not a single sinner would ever have been saved. In order for any sinner to see his need of a Saviour and be willing to receive the Saviour he needs, the work of the Holy Spirit upon and within him is imperatively required.

So if God had done nothing more than given Christ to die for sinners and then sent forth His servants to proclaim salvation through Christ, leaving sinners entirely to themselves to accept or reject as they pleased, then every sinner would have rejected, because at heart every man hates God and is at enmity with Him - (Romans 8:7, 8).

Therefore the work of the Holy Spirit was needed to bring the sinner to Christ, to overcome his innate opposition, and compel him to accept the provision God has made.

In Luke 14:16 we read, “A certain man made a great supper, and bade many.”

By comparing carefully what follows here with Matthew 22:2-10 several important distinctions will be observed.

We take it that these passages are two independent accounts of the same parable, differing in detail according to the distinctive purpose and design of the Holy Spirit in each Gospel:

Matthew’s account—in harmony with the Spirit’s presentation there of Christ as the Son of David, the King of the Jews—says, “A certain king made a marriage for his son.”

Luke’s account—where the Spirit presents Christ as the Son of Man—says, “A certain man made a great supper and bade many.”

Matthew 22:3 says, “And sent forth His servants;”

Luke 14:17 says, “And sent His servant.”

Now what I wish particularly to call attention to is, that all through Matthew’s account it is “servants,” [plural] whereas in Luke it is always “servant,” [singular].

The class of readers for whom I am writing are those that believe, unreservedly, in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, and such will readily acknowledge there *must be some reason *for this change from the plural number in Matthew to the singular number in Luke. I believe the reason is a weighty one and that attention to this variation reveals an important truth.

I believe that the “servants” in Matthew, speaking generally, are all who go forth preaching the Gospel, but that the “Servant” in Luke 14 is the Holy Spirit Himself. This is not incongruous, or derogatory to the Holy Spirit to call Him a Servant, for God the Son, in the days of His earthly ministry, was the “Servant of Jehovah” (Isa. 42:1).

It will be observed that in Matthew 22 the “servants” are sent forth to do three things: first, to “call” to the wedding (v. 3); second, to “tell those which are bidden . . . all things are ready: come unto the marriage” (v. 4); third, to “bid to the marriage” (v. 9); and these three are the things which those who minister the Gospel today are now doing.

In Luke 14 the Servant is also sent forth to do three things: first, He is “to say to them that were bidden, Come: for all things are now ready” (v. 17) ; second, He is to “bring in the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind” (v. 21); third, He is to “compel them to come in” (v. 23), and the last two of these the Holy Spirit alone can do!

In the above Scripture we see that “the Servant,” the Holy Spirit, compels certain ones to come in to the “supper” and herein is seen His sovereignty, His omnipotency, His Divine sufficiency. The clear implication from this word “compel” is, that those whom the Holy Spirit does “bring in” are not willing of themselves to come. By nature, God’s elect are children of wrath even as others (Eph. 2:3), and as such their hearts are at enmity with God. But this “enmity” of theirs is overcome by the Spirit and He “compels” them to come in - Psalm 110:3; John 6:37.

Is it not clear then that the reason why others are left outside, is not only because they are unwilling to go in, but also because the Holy Spirit does not “compel” them to come in?

Is it not manifest that the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the exercise of His power, that as the wind *“bloweth where it pleaseth”, *so the Holy Spirit operates where He pleases - John 3 ??

And now to sum up. I have simply sought to show the perfect consistency of God’s ways: that each Person in the Godhead acts in sympathy and harmony with the Others. God the Father elected certain ones to salvation, God the Son died for the elect, and God the Spirit quickens the elect. This cannot be denied - but also cannot be fully demonstrated on a thread that is aimed at a single doctrine - the Perseverance of the Saints.

I noticed that someone had started a thread on Free will, so I will for the time-being (so as not to violate the topic of this thread) transfer my attention over to that one. I believe it will be advantageous to disrpove the myth of free will before any fruitful discussion can be had. Thanks for all your efforts!

 

[Frontline]

I’ve wondered if this garment could be baptism.

What do you think?

The Garment is the righteousness of Christ: Isa. 61:10; Zech. 3:1-5.

 

[nbtb1348]

The Garment is the righteousness of Christ: Isa. 61:10; Zech. 3:1-5.

Absolutely. If this parable is about the one thing that is necessary to be present at the wedding, how could anyone point to something other than the righteousness we are clothed with when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation? Baptism is like my wedding ring: I put it on immediately upon entering into marriage with my bride. It symbolizes this commitment. But what my bride is consumed with is not not the shiny ring, but the commitment I have made that has bound me to her for life! Some people are obsessed with the ring, I guess. Wonder why?

 

[fatimadotorg4tr]

I have a friend who is a Pastor and posts his sermons on Google.

I invite you to watch the following since it was in part inspired as a response to the discussion here on the Doctrines of Grace which I initiated several weeks ago:

video.google.com/videosearch?q=nelson+turner&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#

Of particular import to the current topic within this thread, I’d invite you to view the video from the 17:30 minute mark onward to about 26:00 or so.

Pastor Turner summarizes the Bible’s CLEAR teaching (no need for councils or popes or doctors of the church to make it clear) regarding the Lord’s Supper. It is one more instance where, properly apprehended, faith in the Word is clearly efficacious over “works”.
And it behooves you to study this carefully, for those to whom it is given DO see, but those who are not of the Elect of his Father will NEVER see.
Test your vision. Blessed are you if the Lord has given you sight and called you out of darkness.

You might also find value in his carefully wrought sermons on the cardinal tenets of the Catholic Church available on his website at:
av1611reformation.com/romanism/

 

[nbtb1348]

I have a friend who is a Pastor and posts his sermons on Google.

I invite you to watch the following since it was in part inspired as a response to the discussion here on the Doctrines of Grace which I initiated several weeks ago:

video.google.com/videosearch?q=nelson+turner&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#

Of particular import to the current topic within this thread, I’d invite you to view the video from the 17:30 minute mark onward to about 26:00 or so.

Pastor Turner summarizes the Bible’s CLEAR teaching (no need for councils or popes or doctors of the church to make it clear) regarding the Lord’s Supper. It is one more instance where, properly apprehended, faith in the Word is clearly efficacious over “works”.
And it behooves you to study this carefully, for those to whom it is given DO see, but those who are not of the Elect of his Father will NEVER see.
Test your vision. Blessed are you if the Lord has given you sight and called you out of darkness.

You might also find value in his carefully wrought sermons on the cardinal tenets of the Catholic Church available on his website at:
av1611reformation.com/romanism/

You’re right on, my friend, but you are speaking to many who are bound up with spirits of confusion. Understand that.
God Bless

 

[nbtb1348]

The Garment is the righteousness of Christ: Isa. 61:10; Zech. 3:1-5.

Without a doubt. But it is also very understandable that Chesty would think it was baptism! They think that’s how one becomes born again.

 

[sixofseven]

I have a friend who is a Pastor and posts his sermons on Google.
/

Wow. He was so inspiring. What a great Christian man he is to spend more time bad-mouthing, jeering, laughing, mocking and nit-picking at the Catholic Church.

It must be so uplifting to be taught how to hate.

 

[2John1vs3]

Wow. He was so inspiring. What a great Christian man he is to spend more time bad-mouthing, jeering, laughing, mocking and nit-picking at the Catholic Church.

It must be so uplifting to be taught how to hate.

It’s not a question of hate. It’s a matter of what YOU love.
Do YOU love the Lord? Or do YOU love the doctrines of men? The Lord came not to sow confusion but to reveal the truth as His Father commanded Him. The tenets of romanism and the truths of the Bible (as embraced and preached by Pastor Turner and those throughout history of like precious faith) cannot be reconciled despite what the false ecumenists within many modern churches (but especially that at Rome) attempt.
YOU must consider what is in YOU. Accept what you find.
Any student of the Word, any saint alive can tell you that unless you believe every last one of what we call, for convenience, “The Doctrines of Grace” which ARE the revealed Word of God and can be demonstrated from the sacred texts, you are an antichrist, dissolving the word, creating for yourself a false christ, an image of your own making; which you choose to worship instead of the Lord Jesus Christ Our Savior.
It is not hate, or nit-picking to reprove YOU or anyone for error, or for dishonoring the Lord by effectively calling Him a liar for revealing Himself as He has, whether YOU like it or not. That sermon was called “The Words of Eternal Life”. They are found in John Chapter 6. If YOU believe, it is “the work of God.” Or, are YOU one of the murmurers?
Is your faith spiritual, or is it carnal? Do you believe the good news of salvation, or are you still looking to pave your own path to glory by your works. The Pastor poses the question, “How good do you have to be?”.
How many masses, how many devotions, how many good deeds?
And what will you do with your “scorecard”? Boast before the Judge?
YOU must examine yourself. Be careful that you are not found to be a scoffer, denying – even blaspheming – the Holy Spirit, discarding the integrity of Holy Scripture to seize upon a convenient saying here or there upon which to establish a carnal practice.
“The Word was made flesh.” Consume the Word. “It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
See that? The words are spirit and the words are life.
But what does the Lord Jesus Christ say next?
“…there are some of you that believe not.”
YOU must examine yourself. If you detect hate in the words of eternal life preached purely with pure lips albeit by a sinner like us for the edification and correction of sinners what does it say about YOU?
John 7:7 “The world cannot hate you, but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.”

 

[2John1vs3]

sixofseven;4674250:

…it is only for those who have ALREADY OBTAINED LIFE AND SALVATION, not as you said, "so too must we eat the new sacrificed Lamb to obtain

life and salvation." That, dear friend, is the critical difference.

Wow. I never saw that before. Christ can’t be talking about so called communion the way the R.C. church does as the means of having life, since the roman church insists that only those in a state of sanctifying grace may receive communion. But Jesus says (John6:53) “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.”
And there’s the contradiction. If you’re in a state of sanctifying grace which according to Rome is the prerequisite for receiving communion, you already have life in you, so eating or not eating the host is a matter of no difference. And eating in a state of grace can’t make you more alive.
But Jesus is saying that you can have NO life in you except you eat His flesh and drink His blood.
So what Rome is offering in their holy communion and what the Lord Jesus Christ is offering of Himself for the instilling of life MUST BE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
And reading through John 6 and all throughout the Holy Bible we see the key: John6:40 “…this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…”
And this is the same as Peter’s confession – which according to Matthew Henry in his “Commentaries” IS THE ROCK upon which Jesus Christ builds His church: Matthew 16:16-18 “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
Do you see that? Most Christians understand that Peter isn’t the rock which is what the romish cult claims, so what is? From Matthew 21:42 “Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner…” it is understood that Jesus Christ IS the rock. But Matthew Henry shows us something sublime too, it is the confession that Jesus IS the Christ,the Son of the Living God which is rock upon which Jesus would build His church.
Again: “…every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…” And, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” This is the Rock.