Personal dilemma regardin lectures

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Vir_Iucundus

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Laudetur !

I share the traditional spirituality. Unfortunately, in my country there is no TLM. So, I complete my sunday obligation by assisting at the Mass in a NO church where I am “incardinated”. Today, our parish priest (and cathedral’s rector) invited me to speak with the responsible with the lectures, for reading at some future Mass. Our parish priest is a good and bland man, but very anchorated in NO way. Instead of feeling honored by his invitation for lectures, I am confused about what I ought to do. I feel the lectures made by laypeople are not the traditional way of doing things, winding up the mill of a calvinist theology and fueling the eroneous idea that priest and layman is the same thing.
I cannot ask my usual spiritual director to help me make up my mind, because he is subordinated to my parish priest, so his response could be biased in either way.

What is the best way to do ? To accept or to decline the invitation for lectures ?

Pax et Bonum.
 
invited me to speak with the responsible with the lectures,** for reading at some future Mass.**
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Your wording leaves me a bit confused. Are you misplacing the ministry of “lector” with the word “lectures?” The lector does read the Sunday scriptures for the congregation during mass. You received an invitation to accept this ministry, but if you are not comfortable, or if you do not feel God’s call to do this, simply decline. 🤷
 
More confused. If the OP is incardinated in the diocese, he is not a layperson. :confused:
 
Folks the OP is from Romania. His first language quite clearly isn’t English. That’s what’s causing the confusion. I suspect he means lector.
 
Corki said:
More confused. If the OP is incardinated in the diocese, he is not a layperson. :confused:
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I think the OP meant that it’s his home parish.

@Vir_Iucundus: I believe either decision will be okay. It’s up to you. You should consider that, if you accept, lectures will be read perhaps more traditionally as you are a man (I assume you are a man by your username) and you could even perhaps dress in cassock and surplice to do the readings if that be the use of the parish. It will also be a service to the church. However, if you don’t feel contortable, you are free to reject that ministry.
 
I think it is wonderful that you have been invited to be a Lector in your church. It speaks well for your piety.
However, from what I can gather from your inquiry, you have been influenced by some ultra-conservative advocates of the Traditional Latin Mass, Sedevacantists, who reject the reforms of V II.
You must be careful of these people and their internet sites because many of them think they “know more about the Catholic Faith than the Pope”. In fact, some of them even reject the legitimacy of every Pope since Pope Pius XII. These people are heretics pure and simple.
Your Pastor and his subordinate were appointed to your church by your local Bishop, who is entitled to your loyalty. Believe me, your Pastor and his subordinate know far more about our faith than most of the laity, and as a Catholic you owe them your loyalty and obedience.
However, since you have a problem in trusting these two priests, I suggest that you go to another parish and make an appointment to see a priest there. Discuss your religious problems with him. I am sure you will get a difinitive answer from him. If you cannot accept this, you have other problems and should possibly make a religious retreat at the earliest possible time. Until then, pray to the Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit for guidance-and stay away from Sedevacantist web sites
 
Vir_Iucundus said:
Laudetur !

I share the traditional spirituality. Unfortunately, in my country there is no TLM. So, I complete my sunday obligation by assisting at the Mass in a NO church where I am “incardinated”. Today, our parish priest (and cathedral’s rector) invited me to speak with the responsible with the lectures, for reading at some future Mass. Our parish priest is a good and bland man, but very anchorated in NO way. Instead of feeling honored by his invitation for lectures, I am confused about what I ought to do. I feel the lectures made by laypeople are not the traditional way of doing things, winding up the mill of a calvinist theology and fueling the eroneous idea that priest and layman is the same thing.
I cannot ask my usual spiritual director to help me make up my mind, because he is subordinated to my parish priest, so his response could be biased in either way.

What is the best way to do ? To accept or to decline the invitation for lectures ?

Pax et Bonum.
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Your concern about “Feuling the erroneous idea that tthe priest and layman are the same thing” based on lay participation as a reader is unfounded based on what happens in the Extraordinary Form itself.

The subdeacon is not ordained into the sacramental orders, yet there he is, in the sanctuary and at the altar, in many cases dressed exactly as those who have been recieved the sacrament of holy orders. In many cases, the unordained subdeacon and ordained deacon wear exactly the same vestment, but the name changes depending on who wears it - tunicle if it is a subdeacon, dalmatic if it is a deacon!

No one seems to complain about this obvious “blurring of the line” between cleric an lay, let alone accuse them of embracing and promoting calvinist theology, yet altar servers wearing cassocs, lay readers at the ambo, ushers wearing name tags, cantors in blue or red robes, and a whole host of postures and gestures at the Ordinary Form seem to have some amazing ablity to cause mass confusion about who is and who is not a priest. 🤷

-Tim-
 
@Ora_et_Labora: I regret the confusion. Yes, you are right in saying that is about to be lector. Of course, an “extraordinary” one, since there is neither a formal appointment of lectors, nor a benediction.

@George Steiger: what has this to do with “the pope is not the pope and the Church is not the Church” mentality? The question is simple: a layperson being lector is something a trad ought to accept or ought to decline ?
If you could provide me a papal document endowing laypeople with such a ministry in normal circumstances, then the question is solved and I’ll have no more moral dubia doing this.

Pax et Bonum.
 
Vir_Iucundus said:
@Ora_et_Labora: I regret the confusion. Yes, you are right in saying that is about to be lector. Of course, an “extraordinary” one, since there is neither a formal appointment of lectors, nor a benediction.

@George Steiger: what has this to do with “the pope is not the pope and the Church is not the Church” mentality? The question is simple: a layperson being lector is something a trad ought to accept or ought to decline ?
If you could provide me a papal document endowing laypeople with such a ministry in normal circumstances, then the question is solved and I’ll have no more moral dubia doing this.

Pax et Bonum.
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Here’s the document
. 2 The Ministries of the Lay Christian Faithful in the Celebration of Holy Mass
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[43.] For the good of the community and of the whole Church of God, some of the lay faithful according to tradition have rightly and laudably exercised ministries in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy.[109] It is appropriate that a number of persons distribute among themselves and exercise various ministries or different parts of the same ministry.[110]
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[44.] Apart from the duly instituted ministries of acolyte and lector,[111] the most important of these ministries are those of acolyte[112] and lector[113] by temporary deputation.
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vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#_ftnref110

The reading of the first and second reading at Mass is ordinarily a lay person - either an instituted Lector or a deputed Reader. There is no such thing as an Extraordinary Lector.

A Catholic is free to accept or decline a request to assist at Mass in this capacity.
 
Vir_Iucundus said:
A@George Steiger: what has this to do with “the pope is not the pope and the Church is not the Church” mentality? The question is simple: a layperson being lector is something a trad ought to accept or ought to decline ?
If you could provide me a papal document endowing laypeople with such a ministry in normal circumstances, then the question is solved and I’ll have no more moral dubia doing this.
Click to expand...
As the Church excepts lay people acting as lectors I do not see where any person, “trad” or otherwise, has any right not to accept it.

They may not like it but they have to accept it.

As for sub-deacons, until this minor order was abolished for the Latin Church it was understood that those in minor orders were clerics and not lay people.

In the Byzantine Churches sub-deacon is still present and I believe it is still viewed as a minor order.

I also believe that sub-deacon is also present for those religious institutes that celebrate the EF exclusively.
 
Vir_Iucundus said:
I cannot ask my usual spiritual director to help me make up my mind, because he is subordinated to my parish priest, so his response could be biased in either way.
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That doesn’t sound too . . . traditional . . . to not trust one’s spiritual director, or to despair of good counsel.
 
It’s your decision, but in your place I would decline the invitation politely without much explanation. Recognize that allowing lay people to read at Mass is a policy decision that we as Catholics have to accept as law even if we think it was a bad decision, and pray for humility. In this crisis the devil will use problems in the Church to tempt every concerned Catholic to think himself his own pope. Combat that by trying to be especially obedient and respectful towards your priests and, I’ll say it again, keep praying for humility. God bless.
 
I think I would instead be inclined to advise trying it out. We sometimes need to be pushed out of our comfort zones and our own prejudices. Accepting in humility might be an eye-opening and heart-opening experience.

I never for instance liked the handshake at the sign of peace. I am introverted by nature. But I force myself to do it.

Once, at the sign of the peace, another oblate said, as she took my hand “please pray for me, I am going through a very difficult period at the moment”. I’ve been praying for her every day during intercessions at Lauds and Vespers. God works in mysterious ways sometimes, not always in the way we would like.

The priest has asked the OP to serve. I think it would help the spiritual journey to put aside our personal preferences and prejudices, and to answer the call to serve in humble obedience. At least to try it out. Well, that’s the rule I try to live by (Rule of St. Benedict) and you can’t get any more “traditional” than a 1500 y.o. rule! But “tradition”, is something much deeper than “traditional” liturgical practices.
 
Vir_Iucundus said:
I cannot ask my usual spiritual director to help me make up my mind, because he is subordinated to my parish priest, so his response could be biased in either way.
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Your spiritual director should not be discussing anything that is going on during your direction time with anyone but you. That as long as you do not threaten to hurt yourself or someone else.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
I think it is wonderful that you have been invited to be a Lector in your church. It speaks well for your piety.
However, from what I can gather from your inquiry, you have been influenced by some ultra-conservative advocates of the Traditional Latin Mass, Sedevacantists, who reject the reforms of V II.
You must be careful of these people and their internet sites because many of them think they “know more about the Catholic Faith than the Pope”. In fact, some of them even reject the legitimacy of every Pope since Pope Pius XII. These people are heretics pure and simple.
Your Pastor and his subordinate were appointed to your church by your local Bishop, who is entitled to your loyalty. Believe me, your Pastor and his subordinate know far more about our faith than most of the laity, and as a Catholic you owe them your loyalty and obedience.
However, since you have a problem in trusting these two priests, I suggest that you go to another parish and make an appointment to see a priest there. Discuss your religious problems with him. I am sure you will get a difinitive answer from him. If you cannot accept this, you have other problems and should possibly make a religious retreat at the earliest possible time. Until then, pray to the Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit for guidance-and stay away from Sedevacantist web sites
Click to expand...
You come to attack our religion? I don’t see anything Sedevacantist influenced with his question, he simply had a question, and then you come in here attacking faithful Catholics. I don’t even know any Sedevacantists on this site, so why are you bringing it up? I’m a radical traditionalist, and I’m not a Sedevacantist, and I fail to see the connection between Traditionalism(A political thought), and Sedevacantist views. He wanted a papal document to point him in the direction, but instead of giving him that you just attack people.
 
Traditionalism said:
You come to attack our religion? I don’t see anything Sedevacantist influenced with his question, he simply had a question, and then you come in here attacking faithful Catholics. I don’t even know any Sedevacantists on this site, so why are you bringing it up? I’m a radical traditionalist, and I’m not a Sedevacantist, and I fail to see the connection between Traditionalism(A political thought), and Sedevacantist views. He wanted a papal document to point him in the direction, but instead of giving him that you just attack people.
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Where was George attacking our religion? Even if he mistakenly saw the OP being influenced by heretical websites, how is that “attacking people”? His advice was really great.

I must have missed where the OP was looking for a papal document. He was just saying he was confused, and that confusion usually is rooted in shady websites.
 
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