Personal interpretation of Scripture and Authority of Church

[wmscott]

This is how the Douay- Rheims bible explains the passage:
“No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation”… This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

Good stuff gregg, the following is from the Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary on 2 Peter 1:19-21

Ver. 19. And we have the surer word of prophecy, or to make our testimonies and preaching of Christ more firm. The revelations of God made to the prophets, and contained in the holy Scriptures, give us of all others the greatest assurance. Though the mysteries in themselves remain obscure and incomprehensible, the motive of our belief is divine authority. (Witham) — If our testimony be suspicious, we have what you will certainly allow, the testimony of the prophets: attend then to the prophets as to a lamp that illumines a dark place, till the bright day of a more lively faith begins to illumine you, and the day-star arises in your heart: till this faith, which is like the day-star, give you a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is by the divine oracles you will acquire this knowledge, provided you peruse them with proper dispositions.
Ver. 20. No prophecy of the scripture is made by private interpretation; or, as the Protestants translate it from the Greek, is of any private interpretation, i.e. is not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit. (Witham) — The Scriptures cannot be properly expounded by private spirit or fancy, but by the same spirit wherewith they were written, which is resident in the Church.
Ver. 21. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time. This is to shew that they are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment, because every part of the holy Scriptures is delivered to us by the divine spirit of God, wherewith the men were inspired who wrote them; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the spirit of God, which he left, and promised to his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Our adversaries may perhaps tell us, that we also interpret prophecies and Scriptures; we do so; but we do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, they without it. (Witham)

 

[ejb21]

To cachonga

I just now saw your question from way back in post #8.

your question is moot. It’s moot because your don’t believe in Sacred Tradition and The Magisterium. Problem is, you don’t set the ground rules.

Catholics believe in Scripture, Sacred Tradition (not man’s tradition), and The Magisterium. It’s right there in the Scriptures. Now if you don’t want to believe in these things, thats up to you… Some Protestants naturally will only argue Scripture. And thats fine if thats what you believe. But it doesn’t make your interpretation of Scripture correct. You could be wrong.

I’ve been told by many Protestants that I’m not a Christian and that I’m going to hell, all based on their interpretation of Scripture. According to them all catholics interpret Scripture incorrectly. And Ginger talks about absolute statements.

The pride, arrogance, and the boasting is disturbing, and it goes against Scripture. So be it!

You have the right, if you want, to cry out Scripture Alone or Faith Alone, or any other Alone. Catholics also have the right to cry out Sacred Tradition and Magisterium. And we most especially have this right when we can back it up with Scripture. But please remember something, my friend (and I use “friend” with seriousness and respect), you don’t control the ground rules. Take care.

 

[wmscott]

The Douay- Rheims bible is hardly a reliable source, but even if it were, the commentary is not an infallible source, because it is the written opinions of fallible men.

Is this your opinion of all Bible trasnlations? If not do you have a list of infallible ones? Just curious.

 

[ejb21]

The Douay- Rheims bible is hardly a reliable source, but even if it were, the commentary is not an infallible source, because it is the written opinions of fallible men.

Now you are really starting to show your ignorance. Are YOU sure YOU don’t want to reconsider.

 

[estesbob]

I use the King James Version of the Bible and nothing else.

The original version or the abridged version? The orginal version contained the Apocrypha

 

[wmscott]

To cachonga

I just now saw your question from way back in post #8.

your question is moot. It’s moot because your don’t believe in Sacred Tradition and The Magisterium. Problem is, you don’t set the ground rules.

Catholics believe in Scripture, Sacred Tradition (not man’s tradition), and The Magisterium. It’s right there in the Scriptures. Now if you don’t want to believe in these things, thats up to you… Some Protestants naturally will only argue Scripture. And thats fine if thats what you believe. But it doesn’t make your interpretation of Scripture correct. You could be wrong.

I’ve been told by many Protestants that I’m not a Christian and that I’m going to hell, all based on their interpretation of Scripture. According to them all catholics interpret Scripture incorrectly. Good point, and does it not say somewhere in Sacred Scripture “Judge not lease you be judged” to that end will we not be judged by the same standards we judge others by? I would never again claim (as I did in my Protestant years) that someone is hell bound based on their religion or beliefs. I do not know nor pretend to know what God is thinking. I would never set myself up as judge and jury. And Ginger talks about absolute statements.

The pride, arrogance, and the boasting is disturbing, and it goes against Scripture. So be it!

You have the right, if you want, to cry out Scripture Alone or Faith Alone, or any other Alone. Catholics also have the right to cry out Sacred Tradition and Magisterium. *** I like the analogy of a three-legged stool – there is the seat (the Catholic Church) then there are the three legs, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. Remove any one of the legs or the seat and it all caves in on its self. *** And we most especially have this right when we can back it up with Scripture. But please remember something, my friend (and I use “friend” with seriousness and respect), you don’t control the ground rules. Take care.

 

[estesbob]

Right, though i showed you from sripture, that church is corrupt, and that Satan now rules in any church, any denomination. It isn’t just the Catholic church that is immune to the authority of Satan.

You didnt show us anything-you cut n pasted two sections of scripture and declared that they proved you point. Of course they did no such thing but then one one relies on their own personal intererpreation of Scripture anything can be proven.

 

[wmscott]

You didnt show us anything-you cut n pasted two sections of scripture and declared that they proved you point. Of course they did no such thing but then one one relies on their own personal intererpreation of Scripture anything can be proven.

Is this person for real? What two verses did he cite to come to this conclusion? I missed it. Basically he has set himself up as sole authority over all of God’s word and plan. My, my, my, what an ambitious person he is wouldn’t you say?

 

[estesbob]

Catholics love to cite this one verse as “proof” only they know can understand and correctly interpret Scriptures:
2 Pe 1:20
Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,

…but somehow seem to forget there is another verse immediately following that clarifies the meaning:
21
for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

2 Peter 1:20-21 is a statement that the Scriptures are the divinely inspired word of God - not simply the thoughts and ideas of men concerning God - but God’s word written down by men as God revealed it to them.

lol I do not claim to be a teacher…James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

You have just made an absolute claim as tho you know the mind of God. That goes against the Word of God and contradicts the Holy Scriptures. Would you like to reconsider?

Ginger

So how do we determne what the proper interpreation of scripture is?

 

[estesbob]

This is talking about Satan killing the two witnesses, who are symbolic of the church, and making war against them, that is the church.

And you know that because?

 

[LionHeart777]

From what I have read Martin Luther did not remove the Deuterocanonical from the scriptures, but rather separated them, and placed them by themselves calling them the “Apocrypha”.

I have heard the same, maybe my previous post about Luther removing these needs correction. I believe he did however, relegate them to a non-Scripture satus. I think I have also heard that Calvin did away w/ them completely. Any one have any sources? i should check them.

 

[estesbob]

I have heard the same, maybe my previous post about Luther removing these needs correction. I believe he did however, relegate the to a non-Scripture satus. I have also heard that Calvin didi away w/ them completely.

And under what Authority did they do this?

 

[greggy53]

The Douay- Rheims bible is hardly a reliable source, but even if it were, the commentary is not an infallible source, because it is the written opinions of fallible men.

Why is the Douay-Rheims Bible not reliable?

 

[BibleAnswer]

By proclaiming this, then you do not believe Jesus own words promise to St. Peter, “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it?” Talk about perverting the Word of God. You just defame the Word who dwelt amongst us, Jesus Christ. This is purely, Anti-Catholic bigotry.

First answer to you my friend.

A person must understand what Hell means. Hell is the hebrew word for Sheol and the Greek word for Hades. These words simply associate with: Death, grave, pit.

Hell has been misinterpreted to mean something that it is not, namely to scare potential church members into joining lest they suffer the ever lasting damnation of fire and brimstone. This is not the case however.

Hell is simply death. The wages of sin is death. We are born spiritually dead. If we die physicallly before we are reborn, then we are dead body and soul. And the soul ceases to be.

When Jesus says the gates of hell shall not prevail. You must look at this spiritually.

The gates of hell, that is death, spiritual death, shall not prevail again it, the spiritual church, the body of christ would be all the true believers, the wheat, for the tares are gathered as chaff and thrown into the fire. the chaff shall die physically and spiritually. for the true believer, the wheat, death shall not be the end of us, when we die, our spiritual body lives on with Christ in heaven.

How else would you look at this.
This is the bible ultimate messgage, spiritual salvation through the Grace of Christ.

If you dont look spiritually, compare scripture to scriputure, discern the parable, you would never get that hell is simply death, for this is gods mercy, for the unbeliever to simply cease to be, not to suffer forever more. The church still doesn’t recognize this fact.
In fact they even created purgatory, and that is nothing to do with anything spiritual or has to do with Holy Canan at all.

Adding to.

 

[BibleAnswer]

To make this clearer. Spiritual church would be a general term, yet accurate.

In other words, the gates of hell, that is death, shall not prevail against Life, that is the Holy Spirit.

The gates of hell, that is darkness, shall not prevail aginst the Word and the Holy Spirit, that is light.

the gates of hell that is LIES, shall not prevail against the Holy Spirit and the Word, which is Truth.

Spiritual meanings my friends

Nothing to do with a corporate external representatin of any denomination. Any church.

Why havent we, including me, been able to discern this as what it truly says, because the church, my priest never taught me, I had to study, read read read, to finlly undstand that this means what it means.

jesus gave Peter and the apostles the keys to Heaven, the bible, His Word, in which death and deception will never prevail against, for the Holy spirit and His Word is everlasting life and spiritual salvation.

Nothing to do with brick and mortar church. nothing to do with a man battling satan. Everything to do with understading the true meaning and connecting the dots.

 

[Arandur]

BibleAnswer, how do you know that your assertions in the last two posts are true? How do you know that you are understanding it correctly?

Of course you realize that your interpretations are opposed by the vast majority of Christians, even the vast majority of denominations.

I could walk through and challenge each of your points on Scriptural grounds and show you how they are nonsense, how your interpretations are not just false, but are often very obviously so even when placed against just other Scripture, but what’s the point?

You’ve set yourself up as God and you worship no one but your own mind, your own self-constructed relative morality and self-determined truth. Such a position is drowned in the depths of pride. What point is there in discussing anything with you, if you have placed yourself as the highest authority?

 

[BibleAnswer]

BibleAnswer, how do you know that your assertions in the last two posts are true? How do you know that you are understanding it correctly?

Of course you realize that your interpretations are opposed by the vast majority of Christians, even the vast majority of denominations.

I could walk through and challenge each of your points on Scriptural grounds and show you how they are nonsense, how your interpretations are not just false, but are often very obviously so even when placed against just other Scripture, but what’s the point?

You’ve set yourself up as God and you worship no one but your own mind, your own self-constructed relative morality and self-determined truth. Such a position is drowned in the depths of pride. What point is there in discussing anything with you, if you have placed yourself as the highest authority?

Not quite,

I know it to be truth, because it connects with the rest of the bible my friend.

if you want to TEST SOMETHING in the bible. THEN TEST IT AGAINST THE RULES OFFERED BY GOD.

Compare scripture with scripture and Christ spoke in parables

TEST ANYTHING AGAINST ITS SPIRITUAL TRUTH. THERE IS ONLY ONE,

I assertain that many of the teachings or beliefs you have, can disconect from the truth one way or the other. Where something most definately clicks, yet this little bit over here is just going to be figured out later cause it doesnt fit.

Everything fits, and everything is written in a way so as you can see, but not understand, you can listen, but you cant really hear,.

I am hear to strenghten my conviction, to learn, to teach and to be humbled. You judgment is false my friend. I am preaching what i know to be truth.

please by all means counter my argument, we will see who connects the dots spiritually and who basses there truths based off of church teachings. Which is a fallacy because church is corraptable. The bible is not.

 

[greggy53]

In other words, the gates of hell, that is death, shall not prevail against Life, that is the Holy Spirit…
The gates of hell, that is darkness, shall not prevail aginst the Word and the Holy Spirit, that is light.
The gates of hell that is LIES, shall not prevail against the Holy Spirit and the Word, which is Truth.
Spiritual meanings my friends
Nothing to do with a corporate external representatin of any denomination. Any church…

The Bible says that “The wants of man are never satisfied therefore Hell is never full.”
Hell is a physical place. The Bible says so, more than once. You are not even hitting anywhere close to the mark my friend.

 

[greggy53]

I’m waiting Ginger2
Why is the Douay-Rheims Bible not reliable?
If you want me to take you seriously then back up what you say.

 

[estesbob]

Not quite,

I know it to be truth, because it connects with the rest of the bible my friend.

if you want to TEST SOMETHING in the bible. THEN TEST IT AGAINST THE RULES OFFERED BY GOD.

Compare scripture with scripture and Christ spoke in parables

TEST ANYTHING AGAINST ITS SPIRITUAL TRUTH. THERE IS ONLY ONE,

I assertain that many of the teachings or beliefs you have, can disconect from the truth one way or the other. Where something most definately clicks, yet this little bit over here is just going to be figured out later cause it doesnt fit.

Everything fits, and everything is written in a way so as you can see, but not understand, you can listen, but you cant really hear,.

I am hear to strenghten my conviction, to learn, to teach and to be humbled. You judgment is false my friend. I am preaching what i know to be truth.

please by all means counter my argument, we will see who connects the dots spiritually and who basses there truths based off of church teachings. Which is a fallacy because church is corraptable. The bible is not.

Solely throguh your special insight into Scripture you have found god and discovered he is you. must be awesome!