Personal observations concerning prayer, and the dead

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As far back as I can remember, age 4 or 5, I have assumed that God existed and that there was an afterlife. And I always assumed that God and the dead could literally read our minds, and look into our hearts as if looking through a clear pane of glass. And that even if a person just died this morning, they could access our entire past in some form alike our reading a history book, or a biography.
So, since I was 4 or 5, I have, when thinking, habitually at the same time been talking to God and to the dead.
For example, when I think to myself, " I like her " I am at the same time speaking to God and Joan of Arc, etc., etc. , and saying , " I like her."
And I assume that even if they aren’t paying attention at the moment, or in some cases not even dead yet ( ! ) at some point in the future they will " hear " everything I said / thought.
I am often alone, so , sometimes I talk to God or Joan of Arc or a dozen deceased all day long.
Is this unusual?
Or worse, is it even somehow un-Christian / un- Catholic?
Because it does appear to me that others, many , many others, are not doing the same thing.
Do you not think that God, Mary, the saints, or the general “passed on " casually liscen in on your thoughts habitually?
For one thing, a minor detail, I tend to refer to the dead in the present tense. And when I do, people look at me like I’m mad.
So I explain to them that I think the dead are very much alive, and can hear everything we think, and see everything we do.
And then they STILL look at me like I’m off my rocker!
Is it that people pretend to believe in God and life after death but really don’t? Am I imagining their response?
Or is it that they believe something very different to what I have described?
If so, then what?
I really wonder…😦
Don’t get me wrong, I see good reason for formalized, ritualized prayer.
Indeed, I love praying the rosary.
But still, when you think, don’t you think you are thinking to someone or many someones besides just yourself?
And what’s this stuff about talking to yourself, some kind of inside joke? You don’t talk to yourself? You don’t think?
I don’t know of any way to keep myself from thinking without some serious sedative drugs.
Some of these subtle things really stump me.
I’ll mention just one more example - I like to study criminal justice issues, but maybe to say that I “like” it is something of a misnomer.
Because I happen to believe that only Jesus and Mary were perfect humans. So I assume that the rest of us are up to our necks in blood and filth.
And when I turn to the Bible - perhaps I am completely misreading it - I see nothing to contradict that assumption. It does NOT seem to say ANYWHERE " well, half of you, or one-third of you, or one- one-hundredth of you are perfectly fine and dandy, so you can quit reading this and go about your buisiness.”
So it really puzzles me, and then consequently disturbes me greatly emotionally, when people , with every appearance of casual ease, throw around words like " criminal ".
( granted, yes I do make distinctions myself, for example I don’t think anyone has heard me say a good word about police in ten years… but then I don’t casually suggest torturing police either. )
Granted, one must allow that people are sometimes very good actors.
But even taking that into account, it is hard to believe so many people could appear so relazed in speaking in such a manner if they actually believed that there were observers in heaven who KNOW ALL ABOUT YOUR PAST and know that what you are saying out loud simply isn’t true to your own knowledge. :confused:
I know these questions are in some ways vague or complex, but I would appreciate any feedback.
 
I don’t know abaout the dead being able to see/hear us at all times. I once read that they can’t see or hear us, and when we pray to a saint, God allows them to hear our prayer.

Peace,
Linda
 
Well I do believe the dead can see and hear us, and know
everything about us, but only the ones in heaven. I believe that we are the show and they are the spectators now. I really hate to embarrass my loved ones in front of their new friends moses and elijah and the others, I like to try and make them proud. They are really pulling for us, a “great cloud of
witnesses”. They want us to win!

No you should not talk bad about criminals or police either,
because it is not the will of our Father in heaven that any of
these little ones should be lost. Remember, He forgave those
who were in the process of killing Him. We have no right to
speak ill of the one that Jesus gave His life for, and that’s
all of us. That includes both criminals and police.
 
On the dead… the bible is explicit that when a man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit returns to God… waiting for judgment day when the dust will rejoin with the spirit and the soul will again become whole and will face God for judgment.

On prayers… the bible teaches as how to pray and no other than the Lord Jesus taught His disciples. anybody who can enlighten me about repetitive prayer like the rosary please do… the bible does not adhere to repetitive prayer. how i wish somebody can give me authoritative basis how the rosary originated.
 
Junvir,

catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp

A more extensive look:
newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

Remember, the point of the Rosary is not the repetitive prayers…it is the meditation on the life of Christ while saying those prayers. The prayers are the skeleton, if you will. The meditation is the body.

Only people praying the Rosary incorrectly are guilty of “repetitive prayer”.
 
We, as Catholics, believe that the saints can hear our prayers. I don’t know if there is official teaching on the mechanism by which they hear them. I don’t know if they only hear what God allows or if they can hear everything. I don’t know if they are constantly watching and listening to us. We have to be careful how we word this question to priests. Sometimes, you may just get the nice, “Of course our departed beloved can see us and hear us.” It is often said to comfort the bereaved. I would love to know if there is official teaching on this.
 
On the dead… the bible is explicit that when a man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit returns to God… waiting for judgment day when the dust will rejoin with the spirit and the soul will again become whole and will face God for judgment.

On prayers… the bible teaches as how to pray and no other than the Lord Jesus taught His disciples. anybody who can enlighten me about repetitive prayer like the rosary please do… the bible does not adhere to repetitive prayer. how i wish somebody can give me authoritative basis how the rosary originated.
scripturecatholic.com/vain_and_repetitious_prayer.html
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603fea2.asp
 
I read or heard somewhere that the dead do not have access to all of our thougts or can see us all of the time. It is only when God permits them to see/hear us that they are able to do so. Even the Virgin Mother nor our guardian angel does not have access to all of our thoughts all of the time. It is only with our permission, and, of course, God’s. God respects our privacy. I have asked God to give my guardian angel and the Virgin Mary access to my thoughts in order to guide me better and more effectivly.
 
On the dead… the bible is explicit that when a man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit returns to God… waiting for judgment day when the dust will rejoin with the spirit and the soul will again become whole and will face God for judgment.

On prayers… the bible teaches as how to pray and no other than the Lord Jesus taught His disciples. anybody who can enlighten me about repetitive prayer like the rosary please do… the bible does not adhere to repetitive prayer. how i wish somebody can give me authoritative basis how the rosary originated.
Why are you stating Catholic in your profile?

I responded to your false allegation in another thread you made against the Catholic Church and you disappeard.

Now you are rejecting Purgatory and the Rosary?

Hmmmm…:rolleyes:

I think I will keep a close watch on you my friend.🤓
 
I read or heard somewhere that the dead do not have access to all of our thougts or can see us all of the time. It is only when God permits them to see/hear us that they are able to do so. Even the Virgin Mother nor our guardian angel does not have access to all of our thoughts all of the time. It is only with our permission, and, of course, God’s. God respects our privacy. I have asked God to give my guardian angel and the Virgin Mary access to my thoughts in order to guide me better and more effectivly.
I did this too!!!

How strange. I always worried about that as a convert. I guess I wanted to have no restrictions to Mary or the Saints so I gave them free reign on my thoughts (poor them!) and I felt goofy doing that but now I feel okay about it.
 
We, as Catholics, believe that the saints can hear our prayers. I don’t know if there is official teaching on the mechanism by which they hear them. I don’t know if they only hear what God allows or if they can hear everything. I don’t know if they are constantly watching and listening to us. We have to be careful how we word this question to priests. Sometimes, you may just get the nice, “Of course our departed beloved can see us and hear us.” It is often said to comfort the bereaved. I would love to know if there is official teaching on this.
Yes they can and do hear us because they are the Church Triumphant!

They are more alive than you or I and are not in a selfish heaven but in a heaven that is totally connected to Christ’s Church (which is connected to Christ)

So, "We are family, I got all my Saints with me…
 
Yes they can and do hear us because they are the Church Triumphant!

They are more alive than you or I and are not in a selfish heaven but in a heaven that is totally connected to Christ’s Church (which is connected to Christ)

So, "We are family, I got all my Saints with me…
That’s why we believe in the communion of Saints. How wonderful!
 
We, as Catholics, believe that the saints can hear our prayers. I don’t know if there is official teaching on the mechanism by which they hear them. I don’t know if they only hear what God allows or if they can hear everything. I don’t know if they are constantly watching and listening to us. We have to be careful how we word this question to priests. Sometimes, you may just get the nice, “Of course our departed beloved can see us and hear us.” It is often said to comfort the bereaved. I would love to know if there is official teaching on this.
I think this raises an interesting point. For those who have passed away to hear our thoughts and prayers, there must be one of two things: omniscience or grace of knowing through Christ. I think we should say that it is through the grace of God alone that we are in communion with the saints who have gone before us. That being the case, I think it’s a little presumptuous to assume that our lives are so criticaly important that the angels are watching our every move. I’d suggest that, being in God’s presence, they have much better things to do! In short, I think that God opens these lines of communication in important time, but not perhaps when we’re deciding which color of socks to wear to the office. 🙂

I suggest that viewing ourselves as constantly viewed by the dead and being in constant “communication” with these souls draws our hearts and minds (at least potentially) away from a clear focus on God and distracts us in our daily lives. It also may open doors or interest in the realm of the occult. If you’re speaking aloud all day to those who have passed on, I would respctfuly suggest that you speak to your priest and a good counselor. That behavior may weaken and break the real, human relationships you have, while you sink away into a world of your own creation, a fictional place. (Reminds me in some sense of “Glass Menagerie” by Tennessee Williams.)

If I am taking this too seriously, I beg your pardon. Something in the first, post, however really sounds the alarm bells with me.
 
Some points of clarification -
  • I did not imply that they ever spoke back. But then why should they ? To someone, God for instance, who is living in the context of eternity , if I live another 60 years that may seem like a mere 6 hours. So why speak to me this instant when they will see me soon enough ? Not to sound irreligious , but if I started hearing voices or seeing visions I would run to the doctor.
  • I did study the occult, backwards and forwards. - Which led me to the conclusion that it is at best a joke, at worst another way to make money without working, or producing. And which led to the result that I converted to Catholicism. Weaken faith? Certainly not. It only strengthened it long - term. I understand why a parent would want to shield their child, and I understand that it is human nature to desire to avoid pain or error. But that suggestion has always raised alarm bells with me. Would saint Augustine have been Saint Augustine if he had always been a good little boy ? I doubt it. We learn through error, doubt, suffering, sin, and failure.
    No, that isn’t theology. It is just common sense.
I’m not psychic, so why was I so certain that , on a theological forum , someone would suggest that talking to God all day is unhealthy ? It seems to me sometimes that we have come a long way - down - from the middle ages. Anyway, I used to run out a lot of gas, spent an incredible number of unpaid hours reaching out to people - indeed, I still do. I cannot type, so the average response in this forum takes me 3 hours - to gain not a thing, neither money nor love. So , yes, my attitude now is that if someone actually wants a relationship of some sort with me , I AM NOT HARD TO FIND.
So I eagerly await your Christmas cards. Otherwise I’ll be busy talking too … well, you know.

Hmmm, are we not of incredible importance? Perhaps the cockroaches are a more compelling interest, or the theoretical Martians ?

However, I’m rather shocked that this thread got any response, much less 12 responses. Thank you for your interest.
 
I, too, have always believed the dead can hear and see us.
That is why I look up to the sky sometimes and roll my eyes, smirk, or cry, at my Nanna who I pray is up there with Our Lord.
I often think that my Nanna is watching me, and telling God all the stories of when I was little (of course God saw all these stories happen at the time too, but you all know how grandmothers like to brag).
I often too talk to Jesus or Mary in my head, not praying, but just talking whenever I feel lonely or upset, or thankful.
I dont think all the Saints watch us 24/7 as I am sure there are more glorious ways to spend eternity than looking at me brushing my teeth or making a coffee.
But I think when our own internal dialogue turns to thinking of them, they are switched on to us through the Power of God, for whatever need we are in.
 
To Damascus,

I am a catholic but i am not a blind catholic I want faith that is enlightened not blind. the reason why i asked about purgatory because this is not found in the bible and i think you should open your mind on the passage of the bible in " **Eccl:12:7:Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" ** to the open-minded man there is no other interpretation than …when man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit returns to God… there is no other place mentioned in the entire bible.

The soul is the wholeness of man …“Gn:2:7:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
… not what we catholic usually think as something of a spirit…(that is if we believe in Genesis 2:7 quoted above)

So Mr Damascus, please explain to me about purgatory… because i cannot in my God given intellect accept this doctrine of our faith…

thanks

junvir… a struggling catholic who needs enligthenment
 
I always assumed that God and the dead could literally read our minds, and look into our hearts as if looking through a clear pane of glass.
Remember that Paul said in Corinthians “What I see now is as a dim image and then I will see all things as they are”. He was speaking about while he is on earth all is very vague but when we get to heaven and as one writer mentioned if we are with God then all things will become clear.
I am often alone, so , sometimes I talk to God or Joan of Arc or a dozen deceased all day long. Is this unusual? Or worse, is it even somehow un-Christian / un- Catholic?
I would not even worry about it because even the greatest artists spoke out loud with their plans. I once asked Jesus what the distance between the flesh and the spirit is and a thought came to me saying the distance is only a smear in front of our heart or and mind. It seems the nearer we are to God the greater ability we have in being able to relate to God the saints and other souls in Heaven. The more our heart is joined to God the less there is to keep us away from knowing God. Jesus tells us that we should incline to be perfect as He is perfect.

Is it that people pretend to believe in God and life after death but really don’t? Am I imagining their response? Or is it that they believe something very different to what I have described?
If so, then what? I really wonder… You might find that more people believe that there is a life after and that in this world they don’t want it to be known. I wouldn’t worry

But still, when you think, don’t you think you are thinking to someone or many someone’s besides just yourself? Some of these subtle things really stump me.
I’ll mention just one more example - I like to study criminal justice issues, but maybe to say that I “like” it is something of a misnomer. Don’t you think that maybe this is just your artistic side your creative side giving you a jab to indulge more into the issues at hand!

Because I happen to believe that only Jesus and Mary were perfect humans. So I assume that the rest of us are up to our necks in blood and filth.
And when I turn to the Bible - perhaps I am completely misreading it - I see nothing to contradict that assumption. It does NOT seem to say ANYWHERE " well, half of you, or one-third of you, or one- one-hundredth of you are perfectly fine and dandy, so you can quit reading this and go about your buisiness." You are right and this is written in the Bible. Be know that Jesus is the life the Truth and the Way, The words of the Angel Hail Mary full of Grace Mary was (is) FULL not a little but FULL therefore she must have been perfect in the eyes of God as He created her in the human form.
Jesus said as I mentioned “Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. So it really puzzles me, and then consequently disturbs me greatly emotionally, when people , with every appearance of casual ease, throw around words like " criminal ".
If I were you I wouldn’t even consider the situation it isn’t worth it

Granted, one must allow that people are sometimes very good actors.
But even taking that into account, it is hard to believe so many people could appear so relazed in speaking in such a manner if they actually believed that there were observers in heaven who KNOW ALL ABOUT YOUR PAST and know that what you are saying out loud simply isn’t true to your own knowledge. :confused: Don’t be, God gives us clarity of mind and soul, a gift from the Holy Spirit ALL others are deception from satan, so keep your mind heart and soul on Jesus the way the truth and the life. .
God bless
littleone
 
I think this raises an interesting point. For those who have passed away to hear our thoughts and prayers, there must be one of two things: omniscience or grace of knowing through Christ. I think we should say that it is through the grace of God alone that we are in communion with the saints who have gone before us. That being the case, I think it’s a little presumptuous to assume that our lives are so criticaly important that the angels are watching our every move. I’d suggest that, being in God’s presence, they have much better things to do! In short, I think that God opens these lines of communication in important time, but not perhaps when we’re deciding which color of socks to wear to the office. 🙂

I suggest that viewing ourselves as constantly viewed by the dead and being in constant “communication” with these souls draws our hearts and minds (at least potentially) away from a clear focus on God and distracts us in our daily lives. It also may open doors or interest in the realm of the occult. If you’re speaking aloud all day to those who have passed on, I would respctfuly suggest that you speak to your priest and a good counselor. That behavior may weaken and break the real, human relationships you have, while you sink away into a world of your own creation, a fictional place. (Reminds me in some sense of “Glass Menagerie” by Tennessee Williams.)

If I am taking this too seriously, I beg your pardon. Something in the first, post, however really sounds the alarm bells with me.
If the angels rejoice in heaven over one sinner converting,
then how did they know there was a conversion? They saw,
heard, or knew of it some way and they rejoice, this is what
Jesus tells us in the Bible. Therefore, if the saints are in
heaven with the angels, then surely they are rejoicing also.
It’s not us acting important about ourselves, we actually are
that important. And the apostle Paul tells us to pray without
ceasing.

You are not taking it too seriously, you don’t take it
seriously enough. God is your constant strength, prayer
will strengthen your relationships with others, not weaken it.
 
If the angels rejoice in heaven over one sinner converting,
then how did they know there was a conversion? They saw,
heard, or knew of it some way and they rejoice, this is what
Jesus tells us in the Bible. Therefore, if the saints are in
heaven with the angels, then surely they are rejoicing also.
It’s not us acting important about ourselves, we actually are
that important. And the apostle Paul tells us to pray without
ceasing.

You are not taking it too seriously, you don’t take it
seriously enough. God is your constant strength, prayer
will strengthen your relationships with others, not weaken it.
Praying without ceasing is not what I understood to be conveyed here. Praying without ceasing refers to praying to God without ceasing–not communicating with the dead unceasingly or refusing to use the past tense regarding those who have passed on in order to make a theological point. (For something on prayer and praying without ceasing, see one of the articles referenced on my website.)

I also didn’t understand the reply of the earlier response. What does St Augustine have to do with this topic? Yes, he he experienced a wonderful conversion, but I think I am missing your point.

I would suggest you look at it this way… The communion of saints is there as truly (or more truly) than we see what is around us in the “real world”. We’re in agreement there. Where I think you’re heading off to the deep end, is when you suggest that our every move is observed and crtiqued by those above. (For one thing, unless they are saints, who are we to judge their eternal destination? Perhaps they are not where you assume them to be.) I think this view makes us more important than we are. Yes, the angels rejoice, but that does not cancel the fact that our value is rooted solely in the saving act of Christ. If the multitude are with Christ, their attention should be directed to Him–as well as ours down below. After all, all the world may be a stage of sorts, but that doesn’t mean that the world revolves around us.

Bottom line…praying without ceasing is great, but I don’t believe that’s what you’ve described at all. In life, we should be focused on what we are about, our eathly mission for God. As I alluded to earlier, I would suggest that you are perhaps too immersed in a world of your own creation, and you’re losing out on the real ministry opportunities elsewhere. Instead of speaking to the dead unceasinly, perhpahs find a lonely man or woman (in this life) who just needs someone to talk to…someone of flesh and blood. That’s why we’re here. There will be plenty of time for talking to the rest of “them” later, and you will know with certainty there with whom you’re speaking.
 
On prayers… the bible teaches as how to pray and no other than the Lord Jesus taught His disciples. anybody who can enlighten me about repetitive prayer like the rosary please do… the bible does not adhere to repetitive prayer.
Here is an example of repetitive prayer from the Bible (Matthew 26) and the person praying in this way is none other than Jesus!

*36 ** Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” **37 **He took along Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to feel sorrow and distress. **38 **Then he said to them, “My soul is sorrowful even to death. Remain here and keep watch with me.” **39 **He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will.” **40 **When he returned to his disciples he found them asleep. He said to Peter, “So you could not keep watch with me for one hour? **41 **Watch and pray that you may not undergo the test.The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 42 **Withdrawing a second time, he prayed again, “My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done!” 43 **Then he returned once more and found them asleep, for they could not keep their eyes open. **44 **He left them and withdrew again **and prayed a third time, saying the same thing again. ***
God Bless,
Gary
 
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