Personal Relationship With Jesus Christ

[HPM1984]

Because if you love Jesus, you want to serve Him by serving others.

Good point and I think ALL devout Christians can find solace in this point you made.

 

[HPM1984]

Well-said and I take your point, HPM, but “particular examples” in this forum are often anecdotal and therefore personal. I’m not sure such examples would assuage you, .

Acctuallly StewStew from an argument (meaning gathering facts and data to support a conclusion) there is nothing wrong with a personal example as long as it is particular. (this is the old Qualitative vs Quantitative argument, nether is superior they a just different ways of looking at things)

So you “particular example” of Joel Olsteen is powerful and anyone who listened to Olsteen (or better yet saw him on TV) would have a hard time disputing your conclusion. This is a personal experience you have- yet you pointed to something that was real and drew a conclusion.

Also the same with your “particular” example of the Baptist Preacher telling people that they had to “be doers of the Word and not Hearers” (to paraphrase your post)…you use a particular example to make the point that SOME (perhaps only one!) Baptist Preacher, whether he knew it or not, could have been at home in the RCC with that message.

Where we stray, in my opinion, is when we make blanket statements about a Church without caveats, and sometimes (at least with some of the post I have read) without any having any particular examples or data. Stating that Protestants (or as one of the posters said rotesters) think of the church as brick and mortar only is a specific and particular example of this. I mean no offense (and hope none is taken) but the only reason I can see such a statement being made is the “Mine is better than Yours” type of statement: “My church realizes that the church is people the Body of Christ, Your church thinks it is brick and mortars”.

I do like the word Protester even more than Protestant. Because it is a reminder that Protesters were Protesting SOMETHING…and that means that they wanted something to change and wanted to be part of that thing that changed. That “thing”, in this case being the Roman Catholic Church. I find it sad and ironic that the RCC instituted many (almost all) of the changes demanded by the Protesters (not immediately of course- and very slow) but by then the gulf (in my opinion) had grown to wide and as I have said before, the words and actions had wounded to deeply.

 

[roveau]

I thought that we should all be developing a personal relationship with Jesus, after all He loved us, suffered and died for us. He has arranged to be with us in spirit and physically (through the Holy Sacrament) till Doomsday and beyond.

Who would not be striving daily to develop a personal relationship with Him? I now include Him even when I am driving, when doing my runs, I’m still working on it though. We must remember that it is a gift from Him to have a personal relationship with Him.

We must do our bit and ask Jesus daily for Him to be part and parcel of our ordinary daily lives.

 

[DebChris]

Are we trying to reach heaven through our own merits, or do we recognize the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on our behalf?
To have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ entails recognizing our sinfulness and accepting Him as Lord and Savior. It is more than merely an intellectual acceptance.
I may learn about a person by reading about him or hearing stories about him. In order to develop a relationship, as others have mentioned, I need to spend time with him or her.
Because of our sins, there is a chasm between God and man. We cannot cross this chasm through our own efforts. Christ has reached across this chasm by virtue of His cross and resurrection, reconciling man to God. Are we willing to accept this reconciliation, the salvation that is offered to each of us? If our answer is yes, then we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We recognize our weakness and accept God’s grace.
Our actions reflect what we believe. As Christ stated, “I am the vine. You are the branches. Apart from me you can do nothing.” With God, all things are possible.

I am not generally asked if I have a relationship with Jesus Christ. More often than not I am asked, “How long have you been a Christian?” or “How long have you had a relationship with Jesus Christ?”

 

[may_they_be_one]

This is exactly true. Since Protestants cannot admit/do not believe that Jesus actually gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter and created the Church, they are left with only the Bible and their “personal” relationship to Christ. I feel sorry for them…

I agree to some degree… although, God’s Word (the Bible), itself says to use God’s Word (the Bible) to test all doctrine and to correct one another with it. So much of the truth written in St. Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians, and ESPECIALLY St. Peter’s own letters has been lost in *practice *(not in the teachings of the magisterium, but in practice– which makes ALL the difference).

I would tend to prefer the poor protestants’ personal faith in and relationship with the “limited” Christ of the Bible over the borderline superstitious belief in certain rituals/rules/laws acted out by the many millions of un-evangelized Catholics. Many of these un-evangelized semi-practitioners of the Catholic faith would be hard pressed to even mention the name of Jesus in public… *that’s *sad.

This comes from a cradle-regular-Sunday-Mass-attending-Catholic for 20 years (who remains Catholic) evangelized by a few weeks of protestant preaching on the radio… (see my post on the “no sense of community” thread in this forum for a little more background)

 

[fred_conty]

I agree to some degree… although, God’s Word (the Bible), itself says to use God’s Word (the Bible) to test all doctrine and to correct one another with it. So much of the truth written in St. Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians, and ESPECIALLY St. Peter’s own letters has been lost in *practice *(not in the teachings of the magisterium, but in practice– which makes ALL the difference).

I would tend to prefer the poor protestants’ personal faith in and relationship with the “limited” Christ of the Bible over the borderline superstitious belief in certain rituals/rules/laws acted out by the many millions of un-evangelized Catholics. Many of these un-evangelized semi-practitioners of the Catholic faith would be hard pressed to even mention the name of Jesus in public… *that’s *sad.

This comes from a cradle-regular-Sunday-Mass-attending-Catholic for 20 years (who remains Catholic) evangelized by a few weeks of protestant preaching on the radio… (see my post on the “no sense of community” thread in this forum for a little more background)

Yes, I believe you are correct, but if you don’t mind, I think put a bit strongly. We do need that personal relationship where we experience that warmth of Jesus in and around us.
This dosen’t “save” us as in traditional fundamental belief, but rather it establishes a
closeness of love and a realization of that love. The Catechism says that it is good for us to have that at least once in our lives. This means simply that we should be evangelized. Many Catholics experience this each time they receive Jesus in Holy Communion.

Having said that, there is the “dark night of the soul” where Jesus removes all consolation
of our faith and our closeness to him as a test of our real love, namely obedience. This can occur off and on, or for a long period of time. This He does to put us thru the fire to
make our faith and love stronger and for the salvation of other souls who are refusing his graces. This is the time of real struggle. Doing the will of God in a cold fashion just because He wishes it, with no feelings of joy or consolation. Most of us will or have experienced this at times. It does not mean that a person is losing their faith, or that
they no longer love God, but simple that God is alowing them to prove by faithfulness
their love for Him without being given encouragement and joy from Him. It means He is
honoring us with a Cross and is in reality loving us all the more for trusting us.
Jesus hids himself just as he did to the disciples on the road to Damascus when the passage of scriptures said he held their eyes. And He revealed himself to them in the
breaking of the bread, which was Communion.

“God is love” John the beloved.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I do like the word Protester even more than Protestant. Because it is a reminder that Protesters were Protesting SOMETHING…and that means that they wanted something to change and wanted to be part of that thing that changed. That “thing”, in this case being the Roman Catholic Church. I find it sad and ironic that the RCC instituted many (almost all) of the changes demanded by the Protesters (not immediately of course- and very slow) but by then the gulf (in my opinion) had grown to wide and as I have said before, the words and actions had wounded to deeply.

I have to disagree with you here. There are some things that the Catholic Church has done, changes made that were asked for by protestants, but saying that the Catholic Church instituted many (almost all) of the changes demanded by protestants is not right. There are things that go on in some Catholic churches that are similar to protestant churches or are done to be like or draw in protestants but our beliefs are not the same. There are some similarities and common ground but not protestant.

 

[DebChris]

From Father’s homily during Mass tonight, “It’s not about our activity. It’s about our desire.”
Our relationship with Jesus Christ is not about how many novenas or rosaries we pray. It is not how many times we confess our sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation or receive the Eucharist at Mass. Our relationship is about intimacy, our desire to spend time with our Lord. It is our desire, not obligation, that becomes the reason we seek the Sacraments or spend time in prayer. Our talents are the spiritual gifts that each of us have received, whether one, two, or five. We share these talents, whatever form they take, because we are compelled by Christ to proclaim the gospel. Our talents no longer remain buried. It is in the sharing that our talents multiply, nurtured by prayer and our personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[wisdomseeker]

What is it? And what is the standard for determining whether one has it?

This is primarily a question for protestant evangelicals - I hear this term “personal relationship with JC” quite a bit, but looking for an operational definition.

They put emphasize on this to undermine the Church Jesus built. it is an individualistic way of saying I dont need the Church, all I need is Jesus to be personal with me.

We as Catholics each should seek Christ for our lives but not the way protestants do.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree to some degree… although, God’s Word (the Bible), itself says to use God’s Word (the Bible) to test all doctrine and to correct one another with it. So much of the truth written in St. Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians, and ESPECIALLY St. Peter’s own letters has been lost in *practice *(not in the teachings of the magisterium, but in practice– which makes ALL the difference).

I would tend to prefer the poor protestants’ personal faith in and relationship with the “limited” Christ of the Bible over the borderline superstitious belief in certain rituals/rules/laws acted out by the many millions of un-evangelized Catholics. Many of these un-evangelized semi-practitioners of the Catholic faith would be hard pressed to even mention the name of Jesus in public… *that’s *sad.

This comes from a cradle-regular-Sunday-Mass-attending-Catholic for 20 years (who remains Catholic)** evangelized by a few weeks of protestant preaching on the radio… **(see my post on the “no sense of community” thread in this forum for a little more background)

Be very careful with listening to Protestant radio programs…For Catholic ears, they may seem like honey but there are many errors…I am cautious, even wary, because I was not properly catechized and I am not sure my conscience is properly formed. In fact, I highly doubt that it was, since I lost all contact with the Church after my mother died when I was 10. The Protestant radio shows can seem quite exciting and dynamic, but can lead serious Catholics into sin. Our Church is not like their denominations. We are not them and they are not us. I think we can learn from some of what they do, but we should not become like them. A good parish can have a great sense of community, yet still be doing things the “Catholic” way.

 

[HPM1984]

I have to disagree with you here. There are some things that the Catholic Church has done, changes made that were asked for by protestants, but saying that the Catholic Church instituted many (almost all)

of the changes demanded by protestants is not right. There are things that go on in some Catholic churches that are similar to protestant churches or are done to be like or draw in protestants but our beliefs are not the same. There are some similarities and common ground but not protestant.

I am normally not a WIKI fan- but this is a rather balanced view of what I meant. You will see that many of the changes in practice demanded INITIALLY by Luther were made (I am not speaking of the follow up demands made in the following 100 years where the split became larger and larger):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Reformation

A very good example was the Jesuits and other orders who began focusing on the poor and needy- there were MANY corrupt Bishops in the RCC at this time- living in incredible splendor whilst the starving masses made do if you will.

 

[fred_conty]

@HPM1984, you mentioned,
"But no question easy believism is on the rise- but where did it come from???
Billy Sunday, then Billy Graham & then a host of Pentecostal and Evangelical Preachers swamped many of the Protestant denominations (mainly Baptist, Assembly of God, Campus Crusade and Intervarsity), with the Roman Road & the Sinner’s Prayer… whammo you have a “once saved always saved Christian,Cheap and Easy Christianity”​

I would agree with you that it is a quick christianity. But upon reflecting on the outreach of these Billys, they did touch so many people to open their hearts and let in the rays of light from God in one big act of acceptance. In one moment, something happened that would not have happened if they hadn’t presented the oportunity, namely a sudden colapse of their total defense of their pride, and seeing the real love of Jesus for the first time, which so overwhelmed and captured them. I think of those presenting this call from Jesus as I would of St. John the Baptist, who was preparing the people to know and follow Jesus. Once they know and experience his love even for a short moment, something changes within a person. They are now different and want to be one with him, making possible a journey to search for him. It sends them on their “WAY”.

Just a thought.

 

[BackToTheRock]

Once protestant, I used to hear this phrase a lot. It usually means have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior? Are you saved? Now every time I hear it, it reminds me of an old song, Me and Jesus, we got our own thing going. We don’t need anyone to tell us what it’s all about.

Not only do I remember this song from my Protestant days, I actually have a recording of it!

I think this pretty much sums things up. In that particular Protestant view church isn’t bad but it’s not a necessity for salvation whereas in a Catholic view salvation takes place within the context of the Church which Christ has given to us. In a Protestant perspective there are many options, not imperatives, for church participation. In a Catholic perspective the Church is the vessel through which we receive and participate in the sacraments, the scriptures, the tradition, the apostolic succession, the community of the faithful and the communion of the saints. Salvation separate from all of these through which Christ gives himself to us just doesn’t make sense in a Catholic context.

I want to be clear I’m not dissing my Protestant upbringing or participation. I learned a lot about the scriptures and prayer, had many opportunities for service, and met many people whose lives had truly been transformed by Jesus Christ through the gospel. I bring all of these into my Catholic experience and hope that more of my Protestant brothers and sisters will come to live their salvation experience in the fullness of the Catholic Church.

 

[DebChris]

Not only do I remember this song from my Protestant days, I actually have a recording of it!

I think this pretty much sums things up. In that particular Protestant view church isn’t bad but it’s not a necessity for salvation whereas in a Catholic view salvation takes place within the context of the Church which Christ has given to us. In a Protestant perspective there are many options, not imperatives, for church participation. In a Catholic perspective the Church is the vessel through which we receive and participate in the sacraments, the scriptures, the tradition, the apostolic succession, the community of the faithful and the communion of the saints. Salvation separate from all of these through which Christ gives himself to us just doesn’t make sense.

Phrased another way, “There is no such thing as a Lone Ranger Christian.”

 

[wisdomseeker]

Not only do I remember this song from my Protestant days, I actually have a recording of it!

I think this pretty much sums things up. In that particular Protestant view church isn’t bad but it’s not a necessity for salvation whereas in a Catholic view salvation takes place within the context of the Church which Christ has given to us. In a Protestant perspective there are many options, not imperatives, for church participation. In a Catholic perspective the Church is the vessel through which we receive and participate in the sacraments, the scriptures, the tradition, the apostolic succession, the community of the faithful and the communion of the saints. Salvation separate from all of these through which Christ gives himself to us just doesn’t make sense.

It summa, it is in teh CC that one can know and obey all that Christ commanded.

 

[HPM1984]

@HPM1984, you mentioned,
"But no question easy believism is on the rise- but where did it come from???
Billy Sunday, then Billy Graham & then a host of Pentecostal and Evangelical Preachers swamped many of the Protestant denominations (mainly Baptist, Assembly of God, Campus Crusade and Intervarsity), with the Roman Road & the Sinner’s Prayer… whammo you have a “once saved always saved Christian,Cheap and Easy Christianity”​

I would agree with you that it is a quick christianity. But upon reflecting on the outreach of these Billys, they did touch so many people to open their hearts and let in the rays of light from God in one big act of acceptance. In one moment, something happened that would not have happened if they hadn’t presented the oportunity, namely a sudden colapse of their total defense of their pride, and seeing the real love of Jesus for the first time, which so overwhelmed and captured them. I think of those presenting this call from Jesus as I would of St. John the Baptist, who was preparing the people to know and follow Jesus. Once they know and experience his love even for a short moment, something changes within a person. They are now different and want to be one with him, making possible a journey to search for him. It sends them on their “WAY”.

Just a thought.

hard to take issue with you good thoughts!

 

[MTMMB]

Having a personal relationship with Jesus is another way of saying I am ‘born again’. Romans 10:9-10 says it all. This is the Truth I searched for for years! I NEVER learned this through the catholic church. When you confess your sins and accept Jesus into your heart, you commit yourself to living your life for Him. Your life changes. You are a new person. The old is gone and the new is here. You are also guaranteed a place in Heaven. NOT purgatory! There is no such thing as purgatory or limbo.

 

[BackToTheRock]

Having a personal relationship with Jesus is another way of saying I am ‘born again’. Romans 10:9-10 says it all. This is the Truth I searched for for years! I NEVER learned this through the catholic church. When you confess your sins and accept Jesus into your heart, you commit yourself to living your life for Him. Your life changes. You are a new person. The old is gone and the new is here. You are also guaranteed a place in Heaven. NOT purgatory! There is no such thing as purgatory or limbo.

Thanks for coming here and sharing with us. One suggestion I’d make is to break down your message into more manageable segments so that people can engage with you. Taken as a block it feels like an attack which is not what I think you intend. We all have a story to tell. For instance, I found the Truth in the Catholic Church in ways I never did in the Protestant church. I’m sure others here have stories far more interesting than mine.

I hope that you might consider bringing your experience and insights back home to the Catholic Church. It sounds like a new experience of the Eucharist could be dynamic in light of your re-birth.

 

[DebChris]

Having a personal relationship with Jesus is another way of saying I am ‘born again’. Romans 10:9-10 says it all. This is the Truth I searched for for years! I NEVER learned this through the catholic church. When you confess your sins and accept Jesus into your heart, you commit yourself to living your life for Him. Your life changes. You are a new person. The old is gone and the new is here. You are also guaranteed a place in Heaven. NOT purgatory! There is no such thing as purgatory or limbo.

We are born again in Baptism. Our personal relationship develops over time as we spend time with our Lord. The Holy Spirit gives us the power to live out what we believe in our daily lives.
St. John tells us that everybody who hopes to see God “makes himself pure as He is pure” (1 Jn 3:3). The process of purification begins in this life as we submit our lives to God. The traditional images referring to the cleansing of purgatorial fire come from Cor. 3:11-15 and Heb. 12:29. In order to keep this thread from being derailed, further discussion of the reality of Purgatory is better left to another thread related to the topic.

Many non-Catholics refer to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as the moment that they were “born again.” For me, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, regardless of how dramatic the experience, was one more step on my journey toward the Father. In Catholic theology, it can be described more as a Release of the gifts (the charisms) that we have already received by virtue of our Baptism and Confirmation.

 

[Geaux_LSU]

“True knowledge of God lies in a personal and profound experience of Jesus Christ. Faith is first of all an intimate personal encounter with Jesus, the experience of his closeness, of his friendship and his love. Only in this way can we learn to love him and know him even more. Let us hope that this can happen in all of us.”

“If we let Christ into our lives, we lose, nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing of what makes life free, beautiful, and great. Only in this friendship are the doors of life opened wide.”

-his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI