Personal relationship with Jesus

[PRmerger]

I have personally seen deep conversions take place and lives that have changed dramatically. That’s all I will say. When, during adoration, you turn around because one of your teens is weeping and you ask if they are okay, and they respond with “I never knew He loved me so much”, it is a powerful experience. That young man is now in seminary. I could personally cite many more experiences such as this. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

True, true.

But I also heard a speaker say something to the effect of: we have been doing this for over 30 years now, and yet the world is still toxic, and full of the same chaos and confusion it always has had.

I think he was right. The youth feel on fire after leaving, and many are changed, but it’s still really, really hard to fight the allure of evil.

I wish that Steubenville’s effects were more obvious, rather than subtle.

Please note: this is in no way an indictment of Steubenville. I am in awe of the Spirit’s presence there. This response is more a commentary on the allure and persuasion of the world, rather than a criticism of what occurs at the conferences.

 

[SteveVH]

True, true.

But I also heard a speaker say something to the effect of: we have been doing this for over 30 years now, and yet the world is still toxic, and full of the same chaos and confusion it always has had.

I think he was right. The youth feel on fire after leaving, and many are changed, but it’s still really, really hard to fight the allure of evil.

I wish that Steubenville’s effects were more obvious, rather than subtle.

Please note: this is in no way an indictment of Steubenville. I am in awe of the Spirit’s presence there. This response is more a commentary on the allure and persuasion of the world, rather than a criticism of what occurs at the conferences.

You will get no argument from me. With the joy I have experienced in youth ministry there have also been those experiences which just leave you shaking your head; teens who have been well catechized and still are swept away by the glitter of the world. We have a very crafty enemy of which we all need to be constantly aware.

 

[DebChris]

What is conversion if not the realization of the relationship that Christ wants with each one of us? This brings me to the story of 1st Eucharistic Congress in Charlotte, NC. shared by Bishop Jurgis. During the Eucharistic Procession, a man suddenly knelt down, overwhelmed by the love of Christ, and compelled by Christ, he returned to the Church that he left many years before. Christ calls each one of us individually to Himself. Once He has called us individually, we join the body of believers. None of us travels alone. Catholic and non-Catholic, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Reuben_J]

Thanks for bringing this to light, PR. I have taken a group of teens to Steubenville Conferences now for 14 years. This is truly a life changing event for many if not most of them. Eucharistic adoration is always the highlight of the weekend and I have never experienced the Holy Spirit move in such a dramatic fashion as He does at these conferences. The youth in our parish are involved in all aspects of lay ministry; lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, ushers, greeter, gift bearers… Todays youth give me much hope for our Church. They are 100 times more catechized than the youth of my day.

In my place, the same seems to be happening but there is always the feeling that we can do more and reach more to Catholic youth. We try to start them from young. My group do run Holy Spirit camps according to age group up to young adult for a weekend. They are open to the parish, ours is a very large diocese. The responses were always good but the retreat centre can only take up to about 200 participants at the maximum. The transformation on them are always amazing. The hope is always for them to sustain and to facilitate them to be involved in the church. At least that will perhaps equip them when they leave the parents or going for tertiary education.

We also run programs for healing and transformation and also marriages seminars. The good thing about this we do encourage the participants especially couples to bring their children along and we would have separate program for them while the patents having their sessions. These seems to give good result, but we can only do as much to reach out to the church locally and at large.

Once a while we host large international conferences, and yes, speaker like Ralph Martin from Stuevenbille who is a good friend of ours would once a while be lined up as speaker. For the local participants these kind of events do serve as exposures for them on what other Catholics do at large.

Our youth are certainly the future and their formation is very important. The Spirit is moving. The laborers are few, we aways can do with more but the Lord does work among those who come to him.

 

[Reuben_J]

What is conversion if not the realization of the relationship that Christ wants with each one of us? This brings me to the story of 1st Eucharistic Congress in Charlotte, NC. shared by Bishop Jurgis. During the Eucharistic Procession, a man suddenly knelt down, overwhelmed by the love of Christ, and compelled by Christ, he returned to the Church that he left many years before. Christ calls each one of us individually to Himself. Once He has called us individually, we join the body of believers. None of us travels alone. Catholic and non-Catholic, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

Awesome. On a personal level, I have seen thousand of cases like this over the years, and they never cease to amaze … the power of the Eucharist. And also the touch of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit that restore people and give them new lease of life in the Church.

 

[SteveVH]

In my place, the same seems to be happening but there is always the feeling that we can do more and reach more to Catholic youth. We try to start them from young. My group do run Holy Spirit camps according to age group up to young adult for a weekend. They are open to the parish, ours is a very large diocese. The responses were always good but the retreat centre can only take up to about 200 participants at the maximum. The transformation on them are always amazing. The hope is always for them to sustain and to facilitate them to be involved in the church. At least that will perhaps equip them when they leave the parents or going for tertiary education.

We also run programs for healing and transformation and also marriages seminars. The good thing about this we do encourage the participants especially couples to bring their children along and we would have separate program for them while the patents having their sessions. These seems to give good result, but we can only do as much to reach out to the church locally and at large.

Once a while we host large international conferences, and yes, speaker like Ralph Martin from Stuevenbille who is a good friend of ours would once a while be lined up as speaker. For the local participants these kind of events do serve as exposures for them on what other Catholics do at large.

Our youth are certainly the future and their formation is very important. The Spirit is moving. The laborers are few, we aways can do with more but the Lord does work among those who come to him.

Amen!

 

[migueltojose]

True, true.

But I also heard a speaker say something to the effect of: we have been doing this for over 30 years now, and yet the world is still toxic, and full of the same chaos and confusion it always has had.

I think he was right. The youth feel on fire after leaving, and many are changed, but it’s still really, really hard to fight the allure of evil.

I wish that Steubenville’s effects were more obvious, rather than subtle.

Please note: this is in no way an indictment of Steubenville. I am in awe of the Spirit’s presence there. This response is more a commentary on the allure and persuasion of the world, rather than a criticism of what occurs at the conferences.

True - but just imagine how much worse it would be if we haven’t had the success we’ve had sharing the Good News. There is no way to think of or reconcile one without the other (successes versus setbacks). All we can do is the best we can do with all the time talent and treasure we can muster. When the glass is half empty it is also half full and vice versa. Plus, you don’t know how many “sleepers” are out there (like me) that will awaken. My ego likes to think that the game has changed now that I’ve joined the fight. But Jesus reminds me that I joined the fight when he prodded me (let me) join the fight and that my ego is not really mine anyway. I asked, repeatedly, for years, finally with an open heart and willing to accept the consequences (scary) and I received. Sometimes I have my doubts whether or not I realized what I was getting into. Well, maybe it was more of a whack to the head and a punch to the gut than a gentle prod… There really is no other choice. Either get in the game or play Russian roullette with you soul… and perhaps countless others… We shall overcome…

 

[PRmerger]

True - but just imagine how much worse it would be if we haven’t had the success we’ve had sharing the Good News. There is no way to think of or reconcile one without the other (successes versus setbacks). All we can do is the best we can do with all the time talent and treasure we can muster. When the glass is half empty it is also half full and vice versa. Plus, you don’t know how many “sleepers” are out there (like me) that will awaken. My ego likes to think that the game has changed now that I’ve joined the fight. But Jesus reminds me that I joined the fight when he prodded me (let me) join the fight and that my ego is not really mine anyway. I asked, repeatedly, for years, finally with an open heart and willing to accept the consequences (scary) and I received. Sometimes I have my doubts whether or not I realized what I was getting into. Well, maybe it was more of a whack to the head and a punch to the gut than a gentle prod… There really is no other choice. Either get in the game or play Russian roullette with you soul… and perhaps countless others… We shall overcome…

:clapping:

 

[Isaiah45_9]

True, true.

But I also heard a speaker say something to the effect of: we have been doing this for over 30 years now, and yet the world is still toxic, and full of the same chaos and confusion it always has had.

I think he was right. The youth feel on fire after leaving, and many are changed, but it’s still really, really hard to fight the allure of evil.

I wish that Steubenville’s effects were more obvious, rather than subtle.

Please note: this is in no way an indictment of Steubenville. I am in awe of the Spirit’s presence there. This response is more a commentary on the allure and persuasion of the world, rather than a criticism of what occurs at the conferences.

Well, I don’t know PR but my kids (Oldest 2) just came back from Steub’s conference in Missouri and they are still on fire. I’ve had to scramble a couple of family Scripture studies to keep the flame going . Plus, our Parish does a great job at keeping them going and rooted in Church teaching.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, I don’t know PR but my kids (Oldest 2) just came back from Steub’s conference in Missouri and they are still on fire. I’ve had to scramble a couple of family Scripture studies to keep the flame going . Plus, our Parish does a great job at keeping them going and rooted in Church teaching.

:extrahappy:

 

[rcwitness]

In reading (more glossing) this thread, I have noticed lots of good points going around!
-Social obligations within Church community
-Personal reverence to the Mass

I enjoyed Cat’s observations regarding good practices and behaviour with Evangelical Christians. I aggre (and the Catholic Church as well) that they have a communion in Jesus as the Word and fabric that unites each individual Christian. We, as Catholics, have understood this “fabric” as the Lord’s flesh and blood! This is something lost, somehow with evangelicals (the real physical communion purpose).

In this way, I dont understand why the Evangelicals who were once Catholics don’t use their gifts and “notions” of community fellowship within the Mother Church, as opposed to a belief that because their are faillures in Parishes that it gives them Divine permission to open a house on the next block which compromises the Eucharist for a more comfortable product.

I admire those, like Cat, who are the few that see the hidden wisdom in the Eucharist. That the Mystical Body and the Lord’s Body should be equally reverenced. Evangelicals are typically blessed with gifts of social concern. I feel, however, that to rely on social support at the expense of removing the Eucharist from our spiritual diet, will and does lead to emotional and charismatic based direction. This leads to division, because our emotions and attractions to charismatic preachers is from our selves. The Lord’s body is from heaven. The road may be, and IS, more difficult that leads to Christ. That’s why I dedicate my efforts and gifts to Our Eucharist.

I too was raised Evangelical. Many are genuine. I find the ones raised in those communities are usually genuine and the ones who left the Catholic Church to feed the others with false understanding and misrepresentations of the true deposit of faith

God bless,
Michael

 

[DebChris]

In reading (more glossing) this thread, I have noticed lots of good points going around!
-Social obligations within Church community
-Personal reverence to the Mass

I enjoyed Cat’s observations regarding good practices and behaviour with Evangelical Christians. I aggre (and the Catholic Church as well) that they have a communion in Jesus as the Word and fabric that unites each individual Christian. We, as Catholics, have understood this “fabric” as the Lord’s flesh and blood! This is something lost, somehow with evangelicals (the real physical communion purpose).

In this way, I dont understand why the Evangelicals who were once Catholics don’t use their gifts and “notions” of community fellowship within the Mother Church, as opposed to a belief that because their are faillures in Parishes that it gives them Divine permission to open a house on the next block which compromises the Eucharist for a more comfortable product.

I admire those, like Cat, who are the few that see the hidden wisdom in the Eucharist. That the Mystical Body and the Lord’s Body should be equally reverenced. Evangelicals are typically blessed with gifts of social concern. I feel, however, that to rely on social support at the expense of removing the Eucharist from our spiritual diet, will and does lead to emotional and charismatic based direction. This leads to division, because our emotions and attractions to charismatic preachers is from our selves. The Lord’s body is from heaven. The road may be, and IS, more difficult that leads to Christ. That’s why I dedicate my efforts and gifts to Our Eucharist.

I too was raised Evangelical. Many are genuine. I find the ones raised in those communities are usually genuine and the ones who left the Catholic Church to feed the others with false understanding and misrepresentations of the true deposit of faith

God bless,
Michael

Many who leave the Catholic Faith simply do not understand their Catholic Faith. Evangelicals are correct in saying that each of us are called to an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ. This is in line with Catholic teaching. But our relationship must go beyond a Jesus and me relationship. As Catholics, each of us has been given the gift of the Holy Spirit by virtue of the Sacraments. Many have failed to open these gifts. If we have not opened these gifts, or learned how to use them, then how can we share them? We were sealed by the Holy Spirit at Baptism and Confirmation. It is not necessary to leave the Catholic Church in order to express the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Read the lives of the Saints.
The Catholic Church has a rich heritage of social teachings. Just look around at all the Catholic hospitals and religious and lay communities that reach out to the poorest of the poor. This is faith in action. Yes, our non-Catholic brothers and sisters do some of the same charitable works.
Where else, except in the Catholic Church, can a person be nourished daily by the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist? Where else can a person experience the healing forgiveness found in the Sacrament of Reconciliation?
The disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus recognized Him “in the breaking of the bread.” When the priest presiding over the Mass, himself has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, by virtue of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, the Scriptures cannot help but “come alive.”

 

[Isaiah45_9]

In reading (more glossing) this thread, I have noticed lots of good points going around!
-Social obligations within Church community
-Personal reverence to the Mass

I enjoyed Cat’s observations regarding good practices and behaviour with Evangelical Christians. I aggre (and the Catholic Church as well) that they have a communion in Jesus as the Word and fabric that unites each individual Christian. We, as Catholics, have understood this “fabric” as the Lord’s flesh and blood! This is something lost, somehow with evangelicals (the real physical communion purpose).

In this way, I dont understand why the Evangelicals who were once Catholics don’t use their gifts and “notions” of community fellowship within the Mother Church, as opposed to a belief that because their are faillures in Parishes that it gives them Divine permission to open a house on the next block which compromises the Eucharist for a more comfortable product.

I admire those, like Cat, who are the few that see the hidden wisdom in the Eucharist. That the Mystical Body and the Lord’s Body should be equally reverenced. Evangelicals are typically blessed with gifts of social concern. I feel, however, that to rely on social support at the expense of removing the Eucharist from our spiritual diet, will and does lead to emotional and charismatic based direction. This leads to division, because our emotions and attractions to charismatic preachers is from our selves. The Lord’s body is from heaven. The road may be, and IS, more difficult that leads to Christ. That’s why I dedicate my efforts and gifts to Our Eucharist.

I too was raised Evangelical. Many are genuine. I find the ones raised in those communities are usually genuine and the ones who left the Catholic Church to feed the others with false understanding and misrepresentations of the true deposit of faith

God bless,
Michael

Very good points indeed. You know - it was the Sola Scriptura proposal, in my years of Protestantism, that made me come back to the Church? However, it was this love for Scriptures that I learned during this time that made me appreciate more than ever the Catholic Church. It wasn’t the usual suspects and the new evangelization, but Scriptures themselves.

 

[rcwitness]

So consider this, after becoming Catholic I was asked to help the youth group in the Evangelical Church. I agreed and respected their ministry. I did not contradict the youth pastors message, but eventually spoke with him in private about things. One was Baptism. They teach baptism is reserved for a personal committment. I respectfully honored this with faith in the Lord’s calling them to a “PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP” with Christ. Then, I realized something…After these young people would accept Jesus as their “personal saviour” (to their true credit) the pastors neglected to baptize them! You see, the Sacrament gets pushed aside so much, that it becomes unimportant. Then when children see it as unimportant, their natural reaction to the Church which holds it as very important, is contempt. When I simply asked one boy if he was going to pursue getting baptized, he told me, “I don’t need water if I have been saved already”.

Now another question I asked of the pastor (who, btw I respect alot, but I do not serve personality cults) is this: “If the only way to be saved, is having a personal relationship with Jesus…why can a spouse save his/her husband/wife and children through the Sacrament of marriage as Paul teaches in 1Cor.7:12-16?” He said, “I don’t know”…???

So, neither do I know why I should build up a divided Church. I will spend my resources building up the Church founded on Jesus’ pure sacrifice given to all who receive. But I also don’t deny the gifts of those genuine Christians in other folds who do not understand the true deposit of faith through our mother…the Catholic Church.

Peace,
Michael

 

[CRC72]

I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years before converting to Catholicism in 2004.

I think that Evangelical Protestants have Catholics beat by a mile when it comes to “living in community.”

From what I’ve seen over the last 9 years ,most Catholics come to Mass and go home, and that’s it. They are not involved with their parish community at all, in any ministry, social group, class, study, or even saying “hi” to people in the lobby and parking lot.

They come to Mass and they leave. Some community. I am not impressed.

But Evangelical Protestants make an effort to get to know and befriend as many of their fellow church attendees as possible. They are generally involved in multiple ministries and social activities in their churches.

During my years as an Evangelical Protestant at a Christian and Missionary Alliance church in North Carolina, I knew by name (first and last) around 500 people in my church, and I was friends with many of these people and regularly got together with them for lunch, dinner, play dates for our kids, etc. I was in charge of many children’s ministries and also involved in music ministries and pro-life work and Bible studies and missionary work and children’s clubs, etc., so I got to know a lot of people, and I often had to call hundreds of people to recruit helpers for various ministries. (This was back in the days before email would have made it all so simple!)

We used to say that we “lived in the church.” And it’s still true today for many Evangelical Protestants.

I have to admit that I miss that close community. I know people in my parish, and I like them, and once in a while, we do something social together. But it’s nothing like what I grew up with.

I do understand that Mass is the Ultimate “Community of Christians,” and that partaking of the Eucharist makes me one with Christ and all His people present at Mass.

But then why does everyone just charge out of the church after this wonderful unifying moment, and ignore everyone? I can answer that–everyone is trying really hard to be “reverent” and “quiet” in the nave, and most Catholic churches have a teeny weeny lobby that barely has room for the priest to stand and shake hands. I’ve seen newly-built Catholic church buildings that have the same kind of giant lobby that many Protestant churches have–hooray and I hope this trend continues! It’s definitely more conducive to creating “community.”

Have have yet to go to Mass, but this has been my experience in the past with fundamentalist groups. We had a wonderful Bible study group that met every Friday, and it was basically a pot luck. It was like a little church service with great, homemade food. The love was omnipresent there as well. It was true fellowship at its finest.

 

[DebChris]

So consider this, after becoming Catholic I was asked to help the youth group in the Evangelical Church. I agreed and respected their ministry. I did not contradict the youth pastors message, but eventually spoke with him in private about things. One was Baptism. They teach baptism is reserved for a personal committment. I respectfully honored this with faith in the Lord’s calling them to a “PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP” with Christ. Then, I realized something…After these young people would accept Jesus as their “personal saviour” (to their true credit) the pastors neglected to baptize them! You see, the Sacrament gets pushed aside so much, that it becomes unimportant. Then when children see it as unimportant, their natural reaction to the Church which holds it as very important, is contempt. When I simply asked one boy if he was going to pursue getting baptized, he told me, “I don’t need water if I have been saved already”.

Now another question I asked of the pastor (who, btw I respect alot, but I do not serve personality cults) is this: “If the only way to be saved, is having a personal relationship with Jesus…why can a spouse save his/her husband/wife and children through the Sacrament of marriage as Paul teaches in 1Cor.7:12-16?” He said, “I don’t know”…???

So, neither do I know why I should build up a divided Church. I will spend my resources building up the Church founded on Jesus’ pure sacrifice given to all who receive. But I also don’t deny the gifts of those genuine Christians in other folds who do not understand the true deposit of faith through our mother…the Catholic Church.

Peace,
Michael

A rancher’s response to the idea of “once saved always saved” is what happens to a barrel of water if you don’t refresh it once in while. “It gets ‘wigglers’ in it.”
There is a clique that “the gift of salvation is free, but it will cost you everything.” We are saved by grace. That grace calls for a response. Mere lip service cheapens that grace, and the sacrifice of the cross.

As a Catholic, I have been asked many times why we Catholics still have Jesus hanging on the cross. Why the crucifix? Afterall, Jesus is risen from the dead! The corpus serves as a reminder of the price He paid for my salvation. Do we have what it takes to embrace that cross? To get beyond the horror of the crucifixion?
When Jesus calls us to a personal relationship, He calls us to discipleship. He calls us to follow Him, to learn from him, and follow in His footsteps. How many of us are really ready to do that?
The good news is that salvation is a process. Baptism initiates us into the Body of Christ, which is the Church. It is only the beginning. God will continue to strengthen us, according to our willingness, and openeness to His Holy Spirit. The First Commandment is to love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with all your strength. God’s grace makes this type of personal relationship truly possible.

Yes, I have seen the contempt that members of “non-denominational” chuches hold for mainline denominations as well as the Catholic Church. I also know a little of the history of how the Assemby of God and other evangelical churches came to be which helps with understanding.

 

[philv]

I was talking with a friend today about religion and she said that the only thing that matters is having a personal relationship with Jesus. I told her I disagree and that being an active part of the body of Christ matters. She said good works come from first having that personal relationship. I told her that one can do good even when there are doubts about salvation. I don’t think I explained myself very well. I don’t know how to talk to protestants of that variety. What do you say?

As a former protestant, I do have a relationship with Jesus (I call it having a relationship with the Trinity in a Catholic sense - the full package) and am a Catholic still. Praying is part of that relationship. Worship is also part of that relationship. All Catholics have a relationship because of this if they’re content in their worship and prayer. What I found was interesting though. Jesus himself says don’t pray to me but pray to the Father. We pray it every Sunday: “Our father, who art in heaven…” He said this is how you pray as a template. I find myself praying directly to the Father usually. There’s also the simultaneous prayer, which I think Protestants are saying that’s “having a relationship,” but not always. I think I would fit with simultaneous prayer. Point is if you pray, serve others (“if you do it unto them, you do it unto me”), and worship with a humble heart, and ask God to guide you, you have a relationship. The term ‘relationship’ is just not in the bible as much, if at all, so I think that’s why Catholics are a little confused. ‘Relationship’ is more of a protestant term to express partial to full simultaneous worship and prayer.

The only problem is - if we don’t study - we turn God into our own image, rather the other way around. So we might have a relationship with our own version of God. But of course, this can be changed with reading the scriptures and learning more of the one we pray, serve, and worship to.

 

[philv]

Some verses, too:

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . .Jesus himself says don’t pray to me but pray to the father. We pray it every sunday: “our father, who art in heaven…” he said this is how you pray as a template. . . . .

Philv,

Excellent point. The interesting thing is that this is a “corporate” prayer. It is prayed with other Christians.

. . . .‘relationship’ is more of a protestant term to express partial to full simultaneous worship and prayer.

I have not found the word “personal,” the word “relationship,” or the phrase “personal relationship” in the New Testament. I am open to correction if anyone recalls a verse where these words are used. So, “personal relationship” is not Biblical language.

However, I can’t imagine anything more personal than consuming the Flesh and Blood of Christ.in the Holy Eucharist. Through this Sacrament, we abide in Him, and He in us.

John 6:
56 Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them.

Also:

Romans 6:
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

the only problem is - if we don’t study - we turn god into our own image, rather the other way around. So we might have a relationship with our own version of god. But of course, this can be changed with reading the scriptures and learning more of the one we pray, serve, and worship to.

Well said.