Personal relationship with Jesus

[Cat]

I guess it comes down to: “To each his own.”

Our parish is rich in opportunities for involvement, and I am involved in those activities that I am most needed in (music). So is my husband.

The parish offers plenty of social opportunities outside of the church, and we avail ourselves of those that are of interest to us.

I do realize that many of the thousands in our parish who do not get involved with the parish activities and ministries may well have ministries outside of the parish that keeps them busy.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about “if you wanted to join a Protestant church, you would have.” What is “Protestant” about stepping up and volunteering for ministries in the parish, and attending social events offered by the parish? What is “Protestant” about getting involved with the parish Bible study or attending the parish Mission? If those things are “Protestant,” then our parish is a Catholic Protestant parish! I would call all of these ministries and activities “Christian.”

 

[Cat]

Never been an Evangelical and therefore have no first hand experience. What I feel about the Evangelical community experience is perhaps geared or focused more toward ‘fellowship’ with one another, a great thing by all means and certainly what the Catholic community often lack.

Yet this phenomenon is not what Catholics really have in mind no matter how good it may be. To be sure, I would not know five hundred of the parishioners in my parish and more, despite how many times you sit next to a person in a pew, sharing sign of peace in the mass, you may not know his name other than the familiarity of his face. It can be as bad as that sometimes especially in a big parish.

To the Catholics, and this is a personal opinion from personal experience, the focus is more on the spiritual aspect rather than social, and usually a strong relationship among parishioners derived from experience of doing spiritual activity together over period of time.

Thus friendship and bond usually as a result of doing thing together like in retreats and devotions. However the social aspect of it has caught up definitely. My parish is as active as it could be - there are all kinds of activities and people who work together in these various groups have become pals and their relationship has become very close.

Are Catholics cold and lack the warmth of the Evangelicals? Not necessary. In my parish, we can roughly have three categories of Catholics. The regulars being at the top of the table. And more often than not, one would always see these everywhere and anywhere.

The second category are the ordinary so-called Sunday Christian who come to church to fulfill their obligation. These will rush to the car park after mass to get a table at the local restaurant for the family brunch. They have no time to socialize after church.

The third categories are very often the lapsed Catholics. We can see them a few times during some important mass or occasions in the church otherwise they are mainly absentees.

I would say the fellowship of the Evangelicals, admirable as it is, would seem hollow to most Catholics. For without deep spiritual activities such fellowship would only reduced to any club-like activities which the Church is not. A greater mission for Catholics, if they must go out to know people would be to involve in work of charity.

Thus the disdain for phrase like ‘personal relationship with Christ’, simply because we think that the greater call is to serve the Church of Christ. The personal relationship is often taken for granted in communion in the Eucharist which is the summit of all relationship with Christ.

Well, I don’t want to beat you up here, but you’re way off when it comes to Evangelical Protestants and “deep spiritual activities.”

I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years, and so was my husband. We were involved in plenty of deep spiritual activities with other Christians, including all day or all night prayer meetings, wonderful worship times singing and praising God in our own language and “tongues,” healing services, communion services (yes, it was just a symbol, but it was a powerful symbol to us), baptismal services (we didn’t believe in infant baptism, so everyone who got baptized had made a decision to be baptized, and it was quite thrilling to witness their joy), watch night services, “Testimony Times,” and the midweek prayer services that someone in this thread labelled as gossip fests. Well, maybe in his/her church, but in the churches that we were involved in, the Midweek Prayer Services were beautiful times of tears and heart-felt prayers and praises.

We attended retreats that literally changed our lives. I can remember all-night discussion and crying sessions with my Christian sisters at these retreats, and beautiful times of worship and praise.

My husband was raised Pentecostal (Assemblies of God), and he was part of a lot of prayer services that lasted for hours, where people would come forward and the assembled believers would “wrestle for their souls.” He can also remember worship services where people were “slain in the spirit.”

Both of us can remember a LOT of Catholics attending our “deep spiritual activities,” and sticking around for the rest of their lives. Apparently a lot of Catholics didn’t find our spiritual activities and fellowship “hollow.”

Hey, everyone, I’m not criticizing Catholicism, because I am a Catholic, and I love being Catholic. I’m just saying that if you try to tell Evangelical Protestants that they don’t understand “community,” you will get some very strange looks and head-shakes from Evangelical Protestants who recognize that you don’t know what you’re talking about. So I would recommend not going there.

And personally, I think that arguing against a “personal relationship with Jesus” is kind of silly. Pope Benedict XVI specifically talked about the need for a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” in his first encyclical . If Pope Benedict XVI said it, I believe it, and that settles it! If you don’t…well, I would love to be there when you tell the Pope Emeritus that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about! That would be entertaining.

 

[DebChris]

I am not really addressing your post but rather to offer myself further comment.

I think generally the words of the concluding rite of the mass governs Catholics mentality, whether some of us realize it or not. … The mass is ended go and serve the Lord. …

This is not often preached simply because there is little room for it in the mass itself and moreover it is taken for granted that Catholics know and abide by it. And yes this is where many often fail.

In some conferences that I know of especially where the theme is focused on the Eucharist, some of the implication of this exhortation would be explained and discussed at length.

We come to the mass to receive Jesus. We are actually then have become Jesus by the full communion with him with his Body and Blood. In other word we are fed, blessed and sanctified and made holy. Now that is for the personal grace we get.

So what then after the mass? The mass has ended, we are Jesus now by our participation in it, so what now? The exhortation is very clear. Now that we are Jesus, go out then and do what Jesus does in the full knowledge that we have receive this awesome grace from him. Of course we fail in this many times but on the other hand this is the inspiration that lead many people to become saints.

For Catholics the ultimate personal relationship with Jesus derives from being one with him through the Eucharist and to live out the commission thereafter from that.

Mass actually means “to be sent forward.” Even in the smallest parishes, there may be several Masses said on a weekend. While it might be nice to enjoy fellowship together afterward, it is not always practical. Out of respect, we do want to keep the church itself quiet for those who wish to spend some additional time in private prayer and thanksgiving for what they have just received. Then again, the church may need to be emptied for the next Mass. In a reverse scenario, on an Army base, it was those waiting for the Protestant service who got annoyed at the Catholics blocking the doorway to the chapel as we talked and met over donuts while they tried to get to their service.
I do agree, nourished by the Word and the Sacrament, we can definitely be inspired to be the saints we are meant to be in bringing Christ to the world through the lives we live.
How blessed are we as Catholics to be able to receive the Eucharist more than one time a week, depending on our other obligations? Our prayer life, our relationship with our Savior does not stop at the door of the church. We are the Church,the living Body of Christ.

 

[Reuben_J]

Well, I don’t want to beat you up here, but you’re way off when it comes to Evangelical Protestants and “deep spiritual activities.”

I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years, and so was my husband. We were involved in plenty of deep spiritual activities with other Christians, including all day or all night prayer meetings, wonderful worship times singing and praising God in our own language and “tongues,” healing services, communion services (yes, it was just a symbol, but it was a powerful symbol to us), baptismal services (we didn’t believe in infant baptism, so everyone who got baptized had made a decision to be baptized, and it was quite thrilling to witness their joy), watch night services, “Testimony Times,” and the midweek prayer services that someone in this thread labelled as gossip fests. Well, maybe in his/her church, but in the churches that we were involved in, the Midweek Prayer Services were beautiful times of tears and heart-felt prayers and praises.

We attended retreats that literally changed our lives. I can remember all-night discussion and crying sessions with my Christian sisters at these retreats, and beautiful times of worship and praise.

My husband was raised Pentecostal (Assemblies of God), and he was part of a lot of prayer services that lasted for hours, where people would come forward and the assembled believers would “wrestle for their souls.” He can also remember worship services where people were “slain in the spirit.”

Both of us can remember a LOT of Catholics attending our “deep spiritual activities,” and sticking around for the rest of their lives. Apparently a lot of Catholics didn’t find our spiritual activities and fellowship “hollow.”

Hey, everyone, I’m not criticizing Catholicism, because I am a Catholic, and I love being Catholic. I’m just saying that if you try to tell Evangelical Protestants that they don’t understand “community,” you will get some very strange looks and head-shakes from Evangelical Protestants who recognize that you don’t know what you’re talking about. So I would recommend not going there.

And personally, I think that arguing against a “personal relationship with Jesus” is kind of silly. Pope Benedict XVI specifically talked about the need for a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” in his first encyclical . If Pope Benedict XVI said it, I believe it, and that settles it! If you don’t…well, I would love to be there when you tell the Pope Emeritus that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about! That would be entertaining.

Cat, I have to thank you for that clarification. As I said, it is a personal perception from one who has never been an Evangelical. I am sorry to have an inaccurate personal opinion in what others do. I normally avoid to do but fall short when I try to explain my perspective.

Also probably I am a bit biased as I cannot deny that my impression is very often influenced by the Catholic background. I had an elderly priest, and English gentleman. I remember suggesting to him, “Father, let have a fellowship after the prayer meeting later.” What I meant was let’s have some light moment over a cup of tea and tidbits. “Oh”, he replied, “Isn’t fellowship very much a Protestant thing?”. He didn’t mean any harm, we had a fellowship after that and if that was a Protestant thing, it was actually a good thing. Nevertheless, when the word ‘fellowship’ is mentioned, that is what I had in mind.

Sorry.

 

[Reuben_J]

Mass actually means “to be sent forward.” Even in the smallest parishes, there may be several Masses said on a weekend. While it might be nice to enjoy fellowship together afterward, it is not always practical. Out of respect, we do want to keep the church itself quiet for those who wish to spend some additional time in private prayer and thanksgiving for what they have just received. Then again, the church may need to be emptied for the next Mass. In a reverse scenario, on an Army base, it was those waiting for the Protestant service who got annoyed at the Catholics blocking the doorway to the chapel as we talked and met over donuts while they tried to get to their service.
I do agree, nourished by the Word and the Sacrament, we can definitely be inspired to be the saints we are meant to be in bringing Christ to the world through the lives we live.
How blessed are we as Catholics to be able to receive the Eucharist more than one time a week, depending on our other obligations? Our prayer life, our relationship with our Savior does not stop at the door of the church. We are the Church,the living Body of Christ.

I can understand blocking the doorway part. Ha ha. In my place, it was blocking the doorway too as the second batch waited to come in into the church for the mass. It was like queuing outside a packed cinema hall for the second show. They do that in order to get their favorite seats and if the family is tagging along, to reserve enough space for the clan.

I would say, perhaps in a jest, that we are more worried about getting the best seats and fulfilling our obligation, that sometimes the true message of the mass as you pointed out beautifully, is often lost in the commotion.

God bless.

 

[DebChris]

I can understand blocking the doorway part. Ha ha. In my place, it was blocking the doorway too as the second batch waited to come in into the church for the mass. It was like queuing outside a packed cinema hall for the second show. They do that in order to get their favorite seats and if the family is tagging along, to reserve enough space for the clan.

I would say, perhaps in a jest, that we are more worried about getting the best seats and fulfilling our obligation, that sometimes the true message of the mass as you pointed out beautifully, is often lost in the commotion.

God bless.

If we don’t get to church early enough, there aren’t any seats left. That means standing room only. With my overseas parish, that can mean not only the back of the church, but also up the side aisles. It means parishioners sitting in the courtyard watching on the Mass on the TV monitors. The balcony is packed too. I’ve been for New Year’s Eve Holy Hour where the Auditorium had to be opened because not only was the main church packed, but so was the courtyard–and it was raining. My overseas parish is a very large and active parish.

 

[ltwin]

Well, I don’t want to beat you up here, but you’re way off when it comes to Evangelical Protestants and “deep spiritual activities.”

I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years, and so was my husband. We were involved in plenty of deep spiritual activities with other Christians, including all day or all night prayer meetings, wonderful worship times singing and praising God in our own language and “tongues,” healing services, communion services (yes, it was just a symbol, but it was a powerful symbol to us), baptismal services (we didn’t believe in infant baptism, so everyone who got baptized had made a decision to be baptized, and it was quite thrilling to witness their joy), watch night services, “Testimony Times,” and the midweek prayer services that someone in this thread labelled as gossip fests. Well, maybe in his/her church, but in the churches that we were involved in, the Midweek Prayer Services were beautiful times of tears and heart-felt prayers and praises. . . . .

Thank you Cat for this “insider’s perspective” clarification. When evangelical Protestants talk about “fellowship” and “church”, they don’t mean just another potluck dinner in the fellowship hall after Sunday morning service.

 

[DebChris]

Thank you Cat for this “insider’s perspective” clarification. When evangelical Protestants talk about “fellowship” and “church”, they don’t mean just another potluck dinner in the fellowship hall after Sunday morning service.

I tend to separate worship services and fellowship. As with Catholics, I understand there are different types of worship services, not just the Sunday morning service. Fellowship is more of an ecumenical term, not used much by Catholics except those of us who have gathered on occasion with our non-Catholic brothers and sisters.
I have always understood fellowship to mean the gathering before/after worship, or how we get along with one another. This is how it has been used by my friends. “We wil have our prayer meeting followed by fellowship.”
Catholics just have Donut Sunday.

 

[ltwin]

I tend to separate worship services and fellowship. As with Catholics, I understand there are different types of worship services, not just the Sunday morning service. Fellowship is more of an ecumenical term, not used much by Catholics except those of us who have gathered on occasion with our non-Catholic brothers and sisters.
I have always understood fellowship to mean the gathering before/after worship, or how we get along with one another. This is how it has been used by my friends. “We wil have our prayer meeting followed by fellowship.”
Catholics just have Donut Sunday.

Yeah, that’s how I use it to. My point was that church for evangelicals is not just a community event where everyone comes to have a good ole time in a manner that is spiritually shallow and esthetically tacky, as is sometimes portrayed (though I admit there are some evangelical churches that are both). And even “fellowship”, while taking place outside of formal worship services, has important spiritual meaning because the church is a family and families do stuff together.

 

[Reuben_J]

I guess that settle the issue of ‘fellowship’.

The Catholic Church don’t seem to have high external expression of fellowship before/after the mass because its primary purpose is worship and to fulfill personal obligation. However that does not mean there is lack of fellowship. Doing things together in various activities outside the mass do facilitate fellowship among the parishioners though the interaction may be less somewhat compared perhaps to the Evangelicals. I certainly do not know many of my parishioners by first names.

In any case things are changing a bit. One nowadays usually can adjourn to the parish hall for food sale after the mass if it is preferred. Though many would still go straight back home or pursue family activities.

As for church, Catholics see it in the universal sense though the parish people are included in that. Thus to serve the Lord means to serve His greater Church, the local parishioners included.

This probably side track from the subject of the thread. As for the OP, Catholics do not subscribe to the ‘personal relationship with Jesus’ in the Evangelical’s perspective because that relationship is insufficient from the Catholic’s perspective. The relationship though personal is also corporate as explained nicely by some of the Catholic posters earlier on.

Probably the glaring difference is the Eucharist. This does not make the Evangelicals less holy and Christ-like anymore than Catholics as there are people who fit this category from the wide spectrum of the Christian faithfuls.

 

[PRmerger]

From what I’ve seen over the last 9 years ,most Catholics come to Mass and go home, and that’s it. They are not involved with their parish community at all, in any ministry, social group, class, study, or even saying “hi” to people in the lobby and parking lot.

They come to Mass and they leave. Some community. I am not impressed.

So true. :sad_yes:

However, I think that is changing, esp. with our youth.

Did you see the great things that are happening at our Steubenville Catholic Youth Conferences around the country?

youtube.com/watch?v=XDM2CDFD5R4

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xuKTpp7U0YaPW2uxq4CqxxKX0GO-pJFh2Vv4zBytZsxUQ

Also, in my parish (and I know it differs, depending) we do have a wonderful community. I can’t pull out of the parking lot without waving at 90% of the cars pulling in, knowing the drivers and their families.

 

[PRmerger]

Absolutely, a personal relationship is important, a family relationship is important, but since God love me as much as He loves you, how selfish I would be to believe that as I journey it is just me and Jesus, for He gave us a family, He gave us a Church, He gave us so much more than just me and Him…and I would like to speak to you about that…

 

[Cat]

So true. :sad_yes:

However, I think that is changing, esp. with our youth.

Did you see the great things that are happening at our Steubenville Catholic Youth Conferences around the country?

youtube.com/watch?v=XDM2CDFD5R4

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xuKTpp7U0YaPW2uxq4CqxxKX0GO-pJFh2Vv4zBytZsxUQ

Also, in my parish (and I know it differs, depending) we do have a wonderful community. I can’t pull out of the parking lot without waving at 90% of the cars pulling in, knowing the drivers and their families.

Oh, yes, I think it’s changing.

In the past, I think that Catholics in a parish did a lot of socializing outside of the Mass because they all lived near each other in the parish (neighborhood), had children who attended the same schools (either the parish school or the neighborhood public schools), and shopped in the same neighborhood grocery store.

But all that has changed. Our parish is huge, encompassing almost the entire northeast side of our city, which probably contains around 25,000 or more people. People don’t shop at the neighborhood grocery store anymore (there isn’t any such store in most areas). Instead, they go to the “mega store” that has everything (e.g., Walmart).

And they don’t attend the same schools at all. Many people have the option of attending a public school outside of their neighborhood (magnets), or they attend private schools either secular or parochial, OR they homeschool. So the parents don’t necessarily get to know each other and the children don’t necessarily grow up together.

Also, most women work outside the home, and traditionally, it was the women who planned and carried out the dinner parties, patio parties, neighborhood parties, etc. People used to have card parties, or poker games. Here in the Midwest, a lot of people remodeled their basements and built a home bar, where the men would gather on Sundays to drink and watch sports on TV, while the women sat upstairs and chatted while they watched their children play.

These were good days, and I do tend to miss them.

I could go on and on (I usually do!), but my point is that if Catholic Christians want to “fellowship” or “socialize,” they are probably going to have to arrange to meet during a parish event or class or activity. To a lot of Catholics, that seems “Protestant” because it’s the way the Protestants have always done things. Protestants didn’t have “parishes.” They came from miles around to attend churches, and many attended (and still attend) churches far away from their neighborhoods.

But it’s not “Protestant” because of any theology, so there’s nothing wrong with Catholics using the same model for building their community. It’s what works best in 2013 in the United States.

 

[DebChris]

I guess that settle the issue of ‘fellowship’.

The Catholic Church don’t seem to have high external expression of fellowship before/after the mass because its primary purpose is worship and to fulfill personal obligation. However that does not mean there is lack of fellowship. Doing things together in various activities outside the mass do facilitate fellowship among the parishioners though the interaction may be less somewhat compared perhaps to the Evangelicals. I certainly do not know many of my parishioners by first names.

In any case things are changing a bit. One nowadays usually can adjourn to the parish hall for food sale after the mass if it is preferred. Though many would still go straight back home or pursue family activities.

As for church, Catholics see it in the universal sense though the parish people are included in that. Thus to serve the Lord means to serve His greater Church, the local parishioners included.

This probably side track from the subject of the thread. As for the OP, Catholics do not subscribe to the ‘personal relationship with Jesus’ in the Evangelical’s perspective because that relationship is insufficient from the Catholic’s perspective. The relationship though personal is also corporate as explained nicely by some of the Catholic posters earlier on.

Probably the glaring difference is the Eucharist. This does not make the Evangelicals less holy and Christ-like anymore than Catholics as there are people who fit this category from the wide spectrum of the Christian faithfuls.

So true. :sad_yes:

However, I think that is changing, esp. with our youth.

Did you see the great things that are happening at our Steubenville Catholic Youth Conferences around the country?

youtube.com/watch?v=XDM2CDFD5R4

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xuKTpp7U0YaPW2uxq4CqxxKX0GO-pJFh2Vv4zBytZsxUQ

Also, in my parish (and I know it differs, depending) we do have a wonderful community. I can’t pull out of the parking lot without waving at 90% of the cars pulling in, knowing the drivers and their families.

As with anything else it is always dependent on the parish and the make-up of the parishioners. There are some parishes that have the traditonal annual parish picnic and Bar-B-Q, as well as the St. Patrick Dinners. Some of these events are open to people of all faiths and serve as great evangelization tools. What’s not to love about the Knights of Columbus Fish Fries during Lent which are hardly aestic in their seving sizes, or Lenten soup nights in conjuction with the Stations of the Cross. My WI parish held semi-annual rummage sales which were a great way to recycle clothlng. Donate one year, Rebuy back the next year, untess it went to the Milwaukee shelter which accepted anything that didn’t get sold. Non-Catholic communities, and some Catholic communites as well send service missions to build churches in rural communities where they are greatly needed.
The small parish community to which I belong in NC is naturally reserved. It does take a while to get to know each other, but these are the people with whom one develops lifelong friendships. While they may take a little longer to develop, they are also longer lasting than the superficial “I just met you and I love you” type of relationship that fizzle when faced with real hardship.
There are many ways to express a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. For some, it is as simple as helpiing an elderly woman with her grocery shopping or spending time listening +to that homeless person on the street who may not have had any human conversation for the past six months. These are some simple ways we bring Christ to the streets. Personally we may never see the results of the seeds we have sown, but then again, we are not the harvest master.

 

[CopticChristian]

I guess that settle the issue of ‘fellowship’.

The Catholic Church don’t seem to have high external expression of fellowship before/after the mass because its primary purpose is worship and to fulfill personal obligation. However that does not mean there is lack of fellowship. Doing things together in various activities outside the mass do facilitate fellowship among the parishioners though the interaction may be less somewhat compared perhaps to the Evangelicals. I certainly do not know many of my parishioners by first names.

In any case things are changing a bit. One nowadays usually can adjourn to the parish hall for food sale after the mass if it is preferred. Though many would still go straight back home or pursue family activities.

As for church, Catholics see it in the universal sense though the parish people are included in that. Thus to serve the Lord means to serve His greater Church, the local parishioners included.

This probably side track from the subject of the thread. As for the OP, Catholics do not subscribe to the ‘personal relationship with Jesus’ in the Evangelical’s perspective because that relationship is insufficient from the Catholic’s perspective. The relationship though personal is also corporate as explained nicely by some of the Catholic posters earlier on.

Probably the glaring difference is the Eucharist. This does not make the Evangelicals less holy and Christ-like anymore than Catholics as there are people who fit this category from the wide spectrum of the Christian faithfuls.

There just are not that many people coming to services these days you know. What do you think we can do to get the membership up?

What?

Membership?

Yeah, each week at the temple, tents I should say the coffers have a few rocks and stones but very little in the way of anything we can spend to build for the glory of God. Joshua, what should we be doing?

Look, I took over this place for Moses. We have the ark, we have the sacrifices and short of putting up billboards advertising, the twitter account, the blogs and all the problems with no one being able to read or write I am doing the best I can. Moses left us in a mess. No one listens, no one pays attention, and now you want to build up membership.

Let’s get that Egyptian guy that was worshipping the dogs and now is working to be a member of the group, he accepts Hear Oh Israel our God is one. I heard him confess with his lips and heart and I know he is a good guy. The people respect him and if he comes to temple and speaks, we can advertise on the big rock that is on the hill that everyone can see and we can then get those that come to convert. How does that sound?

That sounds pretty good. What about going down into that valley over there and advertising that we will be holding a rally, have the good humus, the good lamb and get the best guys we know to speak about the Ark, the miracles of Moses and all that stuff you know. It should get some people to build up our membership.

That sounds pretty good…but is that what we are supposed to be doing. How about we live our lives, spend some time with the people after we slaughter the bulls and lambs and just treat them better than anyone else. How about if we go out after worship and show the world by our examples what we believe.

I keep having this dream that rather than trying to build up membership, rather than having these mini-seder, these rallies, these heroes like that Egyptian guy….that there is this guy in the road….beaten……and I am watching this guy come from services at the temple and just passes him by because he is too busy getting together with his own guys, like you are suggesting, doing his own thing to build up the synagogue….and I am seeing this guy, beaten and bruised and no one is paying attention to him…and I help him and people wonder why I do and pretty soon everyone in our group is doing the same and when they discover that it is because of what I learned at the temple they decide to come and find out for themselves why I did that……

Naahh….hey let’s start a men’s group, let’s do the hummus and pita on Wednesday night with the memorization of the Pentateuch, lets get the kids involved in dropping off some papyrus invitations around the neighborhood, let’s get that rally going, the Friday night mini-seder and let’s spend lots of time together isolating ourselves in fellowship and do what all the other religions are doing…

Hey Joshua….you know…that dream….I had that one too, except then I have this vision that when temple is over someone says…go and serve the Lord…

 

[SteveVH]

So true. :sad_yes:

However, I think that is changing, esp. with our youth.

Did you see the great things that are happening at our Steubenville Catholic Youth Conferences around the country?

youtube.com/watch?v=XDM2CDFD5R4

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xuKTpp7U0YaPW2uxq4CqxxKX0GO-pJFh2Vv4zBytZsxUQ

Also, in my parish (and I know it differs, depending) we do have a wonderful community. I can’t pull out of the parking lot without waving at 90% of the cars pulling in, knowing the drivers and their families.

Thanks for bringing this to light, PR. I have taken a group of teens to Steubenville Conferences now for 14 years. This is truly a life changing event for many if not most of them. Eucharistic adoration is always the highlight of the weekend and I have never experienced the Holy Spirit move in such a dramatic fashion as He does at these conferences. The youth in our parish are involved in all aspects of lay ministry; lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, ushers, greeter, gift bearers… Todays youth give me much hope for our Church. They are 100 times more catechized than the youth of my day.

 

[PRmerger]

Thanks for bringing this to light, PR. I have taken a group of teens to Steubenville Conferences now for 14 years. This is truly a life changing event for many if not most of them. Eucharistic adoration is always the highlight of the weekend and I have never experienced the Holy Spirit move in such a dramatic fashion as He does at these conferences. The youth in our parish are involved in all aspects of lay ministry; lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, ushers, greeter, gift bearers… Todays youth give me much hope for our Church. They are 100 times more catechized than the youth of my day.

During the 70s through the 90s the Church did an abysmal job nourishing our teens with truth. We were fed “processed food” when what we really longed for was this:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...EdQtqvoeg99i1-yPLYE7F2-OyPuNPv7EQShqrmSectciQ

 

[Cat]

Thanks for bringing this to light, PR. I have taken a group of teens to Steubenville Conferences now for 14 years. This is truly a life changing event for many if not most of them. Eucharistic adoration is always the highlight of the weekend and I have never experienced the Holy Spirit move in such a dramatic fashion as He does at these conferences. The youth in our parish are involved in all aspects of lay ministry; lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, ushers, greeter, gift bearers… Todays youth give me much hope for our Church. They are 100 times more catechized than the youth of my day.

Yay Steubenville. Our parish can say the same. We have priests and religious who have come out of our youth group, and they would say that it was at Steubenville that they first began discerning their vocation.

But…there are plenty of naysayers who criticize the Steubenville conference for reasons including the contemporary music at Masses and throughout the conference, the dress of the teenagers, the behavior of the teens during Adoration, the “emotional hype,” the “loudness”, the lack of Latin and chant…etc.

Same type of criticism for WYD.

I don’t know if people realize how much damage just a little criticism can do.

I work in a microbiology lab (hospital), and I’ve seen it happen–a healthy person contracts bacterial menigitis, and is dead within 24 hours. Or the older healthy person contracts bacterial pneumonia, and they’re gone within 12 hours.

A bacteria is so tiny that it can only be seen with the microscope, but it divides. Bacteria don’t “mate,” they simply divide in two and then then four, and eight, and so on, and within 12-24 hours, they can kill a human being.

I think criticism is like that. Some would say, “Well, it’s only a small group of Catholics who are critical of the Steubenville Conference, or WYD. Let them talk. It won’t hurt anything.”

I disagree. I think that tiny bit of criticism has a way of dividing and conquering, just like a bacterial infection.

I think people need to hold their tongues when it comes to criticism of those things that Holy Mother Church has endorsed. It’s OK to say, “I’m not interested for myself because I don’t really like contemporary Christian music,” or whatever. But to criticize the music and question why it is allowed…that’s not OK, IMO.

As for the question of “personal relationship with Jesus,” why criticize this and create an “infection” that will probably end with more division and possible eventual death of a human relationship? A “personal relationship with Jesus” is not against any Catholic teaching!. If I were talking with an Evangelical Protestant (which I do all the time because I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years and most of my family is still Evangelical Protestant!), I would use the topic of “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” as the starting place for a great discussion of how Catholics know Christ personally through Eucharist, prayer, adoration, and study of His Word.

 

[SteveVH]

During the 70s through the 90s the Church did an abysmal job nourishing our teens with truth. We were fed “processed food” when what we really longed for was this:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...EdQtqvoeg99i1-yPLYE7F2-OyPuNPv7EQShqrmSectciQ

Absolutely!

 

[SteveVH]

Yay Steubenville. Our parish can say the same. We have priests and religious who have come out of our youth group, and they would say that it was at Steubenville that they first began discerning their vocation.

But…there are plenty of naysayers who criticize the Steubenville conference for reasons including the contemporary music at Masses and throughout the conference, the dress of the teenagers, the behavior of the teens during Adoration, the “emotional hype,” the “loudness”, the lack of Latin and chant…etc.

Same type of criticism for WYD.

I don’t know if people realize how much damage just a little criticism can do.

I work in a microbiology lab (hospital), and I’ve seen it happen–a healthy person contracts bacterial menigitis, and is dead within 24 hours. Or the older healthy person contracts bacterial pneumonia, and they’re gone within 12 hours.

A bacteria is so tiny that it can only be seen with the microscope, but it divides. Bacteria don’t “mate,” they simply divide in two and then then four, and eight, and so on, and within 12-24 hours, they can kill a human being.

I think criticism is like that. Some would say, “Well, it’s only a small group of Catholics who are critical of the Steubenville Conference, or WYD. Let them talk. It won’t hurt anything.”

I disagree. I think that tiny bit of criticism has a way of dividing and conquering, just like a bacterial infection.

I think people need to hold their tongues when it comes to criticism of those things that Holy Mother Church has endorsed. It’s OK to say, “I’m not interested for myself because I don’t really like contemporary Christian music,” or whatever. But to criticize the music and question why it is allowed…that’s not OK, IMO.

As for the question of “personal relationship with Jesus,” why criticize this and create an “infection” that will probably end with more division and possible eventual death of a human relationship? A “personal relationship with Jesus” is not against any Catholic teaching!. If I were talking with an Evangelical Protestant (which I do all the time because I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years and most of my family is still Evangelical Protestant!), I would use the topic of “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” as the starting place for a great discussion of how Catholics know Christ personally through Eucharist, prayer, adoration, and study of His Word.

I have personally seen deep conversions take place and lives that have changed dramatically. That’s all I will say. When, during adoration, you turn around because one of your teens is weeping and you ask if they are okay, and they respond with “I never knew He loved me so much”, it is a powerful experience. That young man is now in seminary. I could personally cite many more experiences such as this. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.