Pet Peeve! Non-Catholics Whining about Catholic Closed Communion

[SMHW]

When my husband and I were first dating he was not yet a Catholic. His family had attended various Protestant churches, mostly Lutheran, because the family moved frequently. His mother made a point of selecting congregations that welcomed anyone to the communion table. Denomination was less important than inclusiveness. In my husband’s understanding, such acceptance was a mark of Christianity.

When informed that it was not possible for him to receive communion when he attended Mass, he was extremely insulted. We explained about transubstantiation and unity of belief but he just said that the Catholic Church was like all those Protestant Churches his mother had scorned for their lack of open communion. To him, (and I suspect to most of those who advocate open communion,) ‘taking’ communion was a way to cause unity.

But it was the desire to receive Our Lord that finally drew my husband to join the Catholic Church. If he hadn’t felt the pain of not being able to receive he would probably still be a nominal Lutheran.

 

[Theodora]

Melonie:

For Protestants who realize what it truly means, that one is receiving the body, blood, soul, and divinity of the Christ – then it is hard to explain to them why they are denied the Holy Eucharist, since who on Earth has the power to deny anyone desirous the body and blood, the real presence, of Jesus?

If it is true that whoever eats of His flesh and drinks His blood has life in him, then the Church would appear to be denying these Protestants life.

I believe that it should be demonstrated first that the Protestant in question understands the true nature of the sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist – that it is not “bread and grape juice, symbolic of our Lord’s sacrifice” but actually the Sacrifice. But perhaps it should be more readily available to the Protestant, sooner, after such a realization. After all, he eats and drinks judgment upon himself, who receives communion unworthily. Can the Church be faulted for the impropriety of a convert who doesn’t completely understand? But She certainly might be faulted for standing between the Lord and those who earnestly seek His True Church. They are like little children who wish to come unto Him. If a single soul is lost because he never tasted the flesh and blood of the Christ, not due to his own error, but to the prevention of the Church, then who must account for his loss?

Melonie,

The Catholic Church is entitled to make the rules and decide who may receive the Body and Blood of Jesus. She is the one who through her priests is able to confect the change of consecrated bread and wine into the true Presence of Jesus: Body, Soul and Devinity. It is presupposed that anyone receiving Holy Communion is free from mortal sin. If a Protestant declares that he believes in the True Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist that does not automatically entitle him to be able to receive Holy Communion. If he truly desires to receive Jesus in Holy Communion, it should not be hard to understand that his soul cannot have the stain of mortal sin on it. That means of course, one has to reconcile himself with Christ first. Well, as Catholics we know what that means: confess your sin(s) to a priest. For a Protestant that will be a stumbling block, along with many other stumbling blocks that the practice of the CC faith has for nonCatholics. In order to get to a prize, one has to run the course. In the Bible it says that no one can even give the apearance of scandal. Having nonCatholics receive the Holy Eucharist only on the grounds that one believes in Jesus True Presence will difintely start a wrong trend that is guaranteed to develop in a huge scandal.

If one is truly sincere about his belief in Jesus Christ, he will try to do everything not to offend Him. Instead, he should humble himself and realize that to be able to sit at the Groom’s table and partake of the Sacrificial Lamb, Jesus, one should have the proper attire on - a soul clean of serious sin.

Jesus knows His sheep. I have all the confidence in Him that He will not let any of His sheep get lost. Disobeying the discipline of Jesus’ bride, the Church, will not get you in Heaven. Getting down on your knees and humbling oneself is a good start. Just receiving Holy Communion because one feels entitled to it, won’t.

Theodora

---

Jesus, I place all my trust in Thee

 

[Curious]

Please, do you notice that you referred to Holy Communion as something to be “taken.” Real Catholics recognize it as something to be received. Perhaps a symbolic piece of bread could be “taken,” but the picture of the recipient actively taking the Body of the Lord is not a pretty one. It conveys an attitude of entitlement.

:banghead: Don’t get all upset over the word “take.” It’s a very Protestant thing to say and I’m a Protestant. Whatever word you like then…“take” “receive” “eat”…whatever. It wasn’t even the point of my post.

 

[WhiteDove]

Dear Curious,
Yes, I don’t understand the scolding I received over the use of the word ‘take’ vs ‘receive’. Hairsplitting over a word like that, instead of looking at the meaning behind it, and chastising someone over it, is uncharitable, IMO. I think that some folks on these forums are too quick to jump over someone over some finer points of semantics, which only serves to alienate and cause antipathy.

I would ask people to carefully read posts and restrain the temptation to scold unless it’s for downright rudeness. It’s hurtful and harmful, IMO.

 

[kirabira]

I have family who would gripe occassionally about this and its difficult to get into everything to explain the whys and hows and whats during the 15minutes before mass when they bring the subject up.

I seemed to have some ‘success’ when I replied this way:
Family member: I dont know why I’m even going when your church doesnt even let me get communion!
Me: Oh, you can receive, theres a whole process set up for that called RCIA. You just go to the classes and become Catholic and then you can receive-- because by becoming Catholic you’ll be agreeing that you believe everything the Church teaches and thus be able to say “Amen” up there.

I think this version might sound a little ‘smart’ LOL- however I manged to word it the last few times its made the person just say ‘oh’ and deflate.
–K

 

[Curious]

Thanks WhiteDove.

 

[Area_Man]

If Christ was serving the Eucharist, do you think he deny himself to anyone who wanted to receive him?

 

[Bud_Stewart]

Area Man:

If Christ was serving the Eucharist, do you think he deny himself to anyone who wanted to receive him?

You are correct. And you can be sure of one other thing, If Jesus offered you the Eucharist there would be no doubt in your mind as to what the true meaning of the Eucharist was.

The Catholic Church knows what the Eucharist is.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Prometheum_x:

Another reason why some people get upset about closed communion, whether that of Catholics or other denominations, is that for them Communion is a sign of unity of faith. Since they don’t think that any one denomination is necessarily right, they don’t see adherence to any one denomination as being necessary either. Consequently, the primary question for them is whether people have faith in Jesus; if so, they should be able to express that unity by participating in it.

I agree with you! I also think that those who believe the bread to be merely a symbol really, really think “it’s just bread, what difference does it make”. If you aren’t a faithful Catholic I can see where it would be a difficult thing to understand.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Area Man:

If Christ was serving the Eucharist, do you think he deny himself to anyone who wanted to receive him?

I think he would if they didn’t believe it was really him.

 

[sparkle]

WhiteDove:

For the life of me, I don’t understand why some Protestants feel so insulted and left out by not being allowed to take Communion in a Catholic Church. What is it with this modern need to feel included in everything, even things you don’t agree with? Why do some Protestants feel they can march into a Catholic Church and go up for Communion, all the while having disdain for the Pope, the hierachy, tradition, doctrine and dogma.

Just because one might feel disdain for the Pope, the hierarchy, tradition, doctrine and dogma of the RCC, does NOT necessarily mean a person is not a Christian rather wants to live a committed Christian life, and loves Jesus Christ very much. I happen to be one of those people. I am not yet a Catholic, and quite frankly don’t feel it is right to deprive those who want fellowship of the deepest kind via the Eucharist, just because they are not a Catholic, or not yet a Catholic. Speaking hypothetically and objectively, what really does “Church membership” have to do with being a Christian. Jesus gave us the Eucharist, his body and blood for ALL believers, not just those who are part of the RCC you know. What if someone was shipwrecked on a desert island, with no Church, no Bible, just a little “kit” perhaps containing the elements that washed up. Of course the person knew what they were!!! Do you think Jesus would forbid this person to partake because he is not in the “RCC setting”? Maybe this person was a Protestant? Then what???

Just something to think about. So far, I agree with everything I’ve found the RCC teaches, but this puzzles me alot! If someone is a believer, period, they should not be denied the Eucharist. Only God knows a person’s heart!! Maybe I’ll learn this in RCIA soon, then I might change my thinking, we’ll see.

God Bless~~

 

[sparkle]

Area Man:

If Christ was serving the Eucharist, do you think he deny himself to anyone who wanted to receive him?

Excellent! The answer is NO!!!

 

[Ellen]

This is a pet peeve of mine as well.

I think part of the problem has to do w/ what Catholics and Protestants consider “church.” To most Protestants, church membership doesn’t mean much. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard “being Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc., doesn’t get you to heaven, only Jesus does.” Well, not exactly, according to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, being Catholic has a lot to do w/ “getting you to heaven.” Our Eucharist is not the same as most Protestant’s communion/Lord’s supper. We believe it is truly the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, that only a validly ordained Catholic Priest can make the bread and wine become the Real Presence, and that by receiving Him we receive His Grace, by which we are saved (“saved by grace”, sound familiar?).

Furthermore, we believe that Jesus founded only one Church, the Catholic Church, to which He intended all of His followers to belong. To partake of the graces available through all the sacraments (not just the Eucharist), one must be a visible member of the Catholic Church. Being in imperfect communion w/ the Church, i.e., a member of “the invisible church of all believers” (which is what Protestants are, they have some truth, but not the fullness of truth), isn’t enough, as you are still outside the fullness of truth.

I know people don’t like to hear this, they think it’s uncharitable. But’s it’s the teaching of the Church. If you think the Church is so mean as to deny you something that you really don’t believe in the first place (probably at least 95 % of Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence, they consider it merely symbolic), and for a reason you find very insulting (you think we don’t think you’re “good enough”) then why would you even want it? I wouldn’t insist on having dinner at a country club after they’ve made it clear that only members may dine there.

Also, how come Protestants aren’t clamoring to partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or have all their children baptized (as infants) by Catholic priests or deacons, or get annointed when they’re sick, or have a Catholic wedding (when neither party is Catholic)? Why do you just want the Eucharist? The graces come w/ all seven of the Sacraments. If you don’t believe that, then why is receiving the Eucharist so important to you?

Finally, I will reiterate what has already been said: When one receives the Eucharist, they respond “Amen”. Not just saying Amen (it is) to “The Body of Christ”, but affirming “I believe all that the Catholic Church teaches to be true.” Why would you say that if it’s a lie?

 

[larryo]

WhiteDove:

For the life of me, I don’t understand why some Protestants feel so insulted and left out by not being allowed to take Communion in a Catholic Church. What is it with this modern need to feel included in everything, even things you don’t agree with? Why do some Protestants feel they can march into a Catholic Church and go up for Communion, all the while having disdain for the Pope, the hierachy, tradition, doctrine and dogma.

It seems that they have the need to express their disagreement with everything Catholic by disrespectfully disregarding it’s precepts about the most holy aspect of the faith. If anyone tells them otherwise, they say that the Church is intolerant and not interested in Christian unity.

Anyways, I just felt like getting this off my chest.

Your peeve is also my pet. Just as troubling to me is the attitude of many unfaithful Catholics who receive the Eucharist, regardless of their spiritual disposition or disagreement with Church teaching.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

sparkle:

Speaking hypothetically and objectively, what really does “Church membership” have to do with being a Christian. Jesus gave us the Eucharist, his body and blood for ALL believers, not just those who are part of the RCC you know.

What I think we tend to forget is that when Jesus gave the Eucharist to all believers, all believers were perfectly one as Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus didn’t give the Eucharist to “all believers” regardless of what they believed. At that time “all believers” believed the same thing. They were of one heart and mind. They were not divided the way they are today with some claiming that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.

---

The phrase “all believers” meant something completely different 2000 years ago.

 

[Prometheum_x]

Provided that a (baptized) protestant possesses a Catholic belief regarding the Eucharist, they may be allowed to receive the Eucharist under grave circumstances. This proves that the issue is not about whether the protestant possesses the ability to receive Jesus. In fact, the protestant needs the Eucharist and Jesus wants to give it to him. Instead, the issue is one of unity. Speaking symbolically, and without denying the reality of His presence, receiving communion proclaims a certain union with Jesus as well as with all who receive. Therefore, while it is good for the protestant who is without mortal sin to receive the Eucharist – the Eucharist is in of itself good and effective – the complete meaning of the Eucharist is obscured by his refusal to also be in communion with the Catholic Church.

sparkle:

Just because one might feel disdain for the Pope, the hierarchy, tradition, doctrine and dogma of the RCC, does NOT necessarily mean a person is not a Christian rather wants to live a committed Christian life, and loves Jesus Christ very much. I happen to be one of those people. I am not yet a Catholic, and quite frankly don’t feel it is right to deprive those who want fellowship of the deepest kind via the Eucharist, just because they are not a Catholic, or not yet a Catholic. Speaking hypothetically and objectively, what really does “Church membership” have to do with being a Christian. Jesus gave us the Eucharist, his body and blood for ALL believers, not just those who are part of the RCC you know. What if someone was shipwrecked on a desert island, with no Church, no Bible, just a little “kit” perhaps containing the elements that washed up. Of course the person knew what they were!!! Do you think Jesus would forbid this person to partake because he is not in the “RCC setting”? Maybe this person was a Protestant? Then what???

Just something to think about. So far, I agree with everything I’ve found the RCC teaches, but this puzzles me alot! If someone is a believer, period, they should not be denied the Eucharist. Only God knows a person’s heart!! Maybe I’ll learn this in RCIA soon, then I might change my thinking, we’ll see.

God Bless~~

 

[Prometheum_x]

Ellen:

I know people don’t like to hear this, they think it’s uncharitable. But’s it’s the teaching of the Church. If you think the Church is so mean as to deny you something that you really don’t believe in the first place (probably at least 95 % of Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence, they consider it merely symbolic), and for a reason you find very insulting (you think we don’t think you’re “good enough”) then why would you even want it? I wouldn’t insist on having dinner at a country club after they’ve made it clear that only members may dine there.

Also, how come Protestants aren’t clamoring to partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or have all their children baptized (as infants) by Catholic priests or deacons, or get annointed when they’re sick, or have a Catholic wedding (when neither party is Catholic)? Why do you just want the Eucharist? The graces come w/ all seven of the Sacraments. If you don’t believe that, then why is receiving the Eucharist so important to you?

Finally, I will reiterate what has already been said: When one receives the Eucharist, they respond “Amen”. Not just saying Amen (it is) to “The Body of Christ”, but affirming “I believe all that the Catholic Church teaches to be true.” Why would you say that if it’s a lie?

The reason protestants aren’t clamoring to participate in the other Sacraments is because, other than marriage, they don’t place any importance on the other Sacraments. However, the Eucharist is a symbol of unity. Therefore, receiving it is an attempt to artificially create unity. To them, being told that they cannot receive communion seems almost akin to being told that they are not Christian. It is quite appalling to them that any would deny other Christians the Eucharist, however they may think of it, so to call for open communion is a way of resolving the inter-Christian tension.

Many say, “Denomination doesn’t matter! Only Faith in Jesus matters.” They do not think that many doctrinal issues have any importance, as far as salvation is concerned. Therefore, since they think that there is no one, true denomination, all denominations being wrong in some regard, no one has the right to refuse anyone something which Christ instituted.

As well, they want to believe that Catholics are Christians. They apply their own way of viewing the faith to Catholics and imagine that Catholics think the same way. Perhaps, they think, Catholics are not a fellow group of Christians, since we cannot share in the Lord’s Supper.

 

[malta]

Ever notice that Protestants feel completely at ease coming to the Catholic Church and telling us how to do things?

Apparently, if you are Catholic you don’t have the same rights as other people. Freedom of Religion only applies when you do things their way!

Yet the shoe is never on the other foot. Go to the Baptist Church and demand infant baptism. See what response you get!
Go to the Lutheran church and demand that they pray for the souls in purgatory. They think they have the right to demand that we follow their theology but they would immeditely dismiss us if we tried to do the same.

The sheer Arrogance! :banghead:

 

[flameburns623]

Sugabee43:

As a convert to the Catholic faith, the story of my wedding may lend a different view. I chose to become Catholic (and would have whether I’d become engaged or not) after becoming disheartened with my cradle denomination, the Episcopal church. I became engaged at 32. My father was an Episcopalian priest at the time, and very conservative. He believed wholeheartedly in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus at the Eucharist, and believed the Episcopal church to be ‘part’ of the Catholic communion (along with the Orthodox churches). My fiance’ and I were committed to having Mass at our wedding celebration, and since my father would be in his clerics for the ceremony, our priest (rightfully so) felt he must deny my parents the sacrament. This was a very painful and embarrassing time for my parents, and me. I felt I couldn’t deny the Mass at my own wedding, and yet my parents were more devout than some of the Catholics that would be attending! We haven’t discussed the issue since that time, and I know we hurt them deeply, but in reality, they were not in communion with the teachings of the Catholic Church - even though they thought so! It’s a very touchy thing that needs to be done with love but must be enforced.

Yet, a former Bishop of the American Anglican Communion CONCELEBRATED a nuptial Mass with a Roman Catholic priest here in St. Louis, some years ago. Not a rumor: Bishop Donald P. (now a priest with ECUSA, I believe) told me about it himself. I don’t know further details (names, dates, etcetera). These weren’t important to the context of our conversation. It did take place in a Roman Catholic church as I recollect. Of course, Bp. P. may hold several lines of ‘succession’, some of them recognized as ‘valid but illicit’ by the RCC. Don’t think that matters to the RCC officialdom.

I knew a Catholic military chaplain back in the late 1970’s who reported reported with great joy participating in the same sorts of ‘concelebrations’ with Lutherans and other Protestants. I attended a Charismatic service in Rome itself during 1979/1980, at which consecrated communion under both forms was passed about to all attendees–which included a mixed crowd of denominational affiliations. Folks in Roman collars, nuns in habits, Protestant tourists and students of various and sundry denominations and callings. I betcha some folks here could add their own reports of such matters.Add in the fact that communion at every Episcopal service (and also in many Baptist, Independent/nondenominational and ‘Campbellite’ churches) is ‘open to all baptised Christians’ and the puzzlement to many Protestants deepens.

 

[stellina]

There are a lot of good answers on this thread, so I won’t add much except to say that because there are many among our own fold (or who consider themselves as such when it’s convenient) who misunderstand this issue. I got into an argument with another Catholic relative after a funeral because the priest made a statement that non-Catholics AND Catholics not presently in the state of grace could not receive the Eucharist. It was pretty much the standard explanation & expressed in a very polite tone, but said relative went off foaming at the mouth about how horrible & mean it sounded and how all that does is alienate people from the Church. I gave up trying to counter him because it was obvious that he had his mind made up. Sadly, there are more than a few “Catholics” like this, and I think they often contribute more to the confusion and misunderstanding than other Christians.